Apple Mac Sales Flat in November

[IJ Reilly]

During the last downturn in 2001, Jobs talked about how Apple would innovate through this period. I hope Apple continues to do the same thing this time rather than race for the bottom in pricing or, as one poster above suggested, completely alter their business model.

I agree. Apple is bound to get thumped by this recession, just like everybody else, but not in a way that demands a compete restructuring of their business model, which has been a huge success by any definition. The people who are saying so are the same ones who have always been complaining that Apple doesn't offer the Mac of their dreams -- and now are using this report as ammunition to "prove" that they were right all along. Pish-tosh.

What bears close cross examination in these numbers is the rather bizarre implication that the Windows PC industry, which has been growing in the low single digits for the last couple of years, has suddenly started growing at a much higher rate, and Apple, which as been growing its Mac shipments at 20-30% YOY has suddenly seen its growth rate reduced to zero -- all in the face of the same worldwide recession. This seems so completely counterintuitive to me that I have a hard time believing that this is how it will shake out when the Q4 CY 2008 numbers are finalized.

But never mind, pass the Kool-Aid. Apparently that's the only response to these questions that anyone really needs.

 

[akm3]

People who used to buy cheap desktops that Apple doesn't make are now buying cheap laptops that Apple doesn't make. As a result, it makes it look like Apple's desktop sales are down, and Apple is losing notebook marketshare.

In reality, these buyers are people who never would have bought an Apple product, likely even at equivalent prices, anyway.

Again, Apple should stay the course, they have the money to weather this recession, and not devalue their brand by making cheap stuff.

 

[iOrlando]

What brand do you buy now?

Crayola


Heard they have a great sale on crayons and pencils.

 

[archipellago]

Apple's computers are built in China, along with all the other crap we buy. There's no reason for prices to be as high as they are.
The only reason to justify it would be if they were built in the U.S. The MBP is built in China.
Update the Mini and stop being so arrogant, Apple.

WINNER...

apple just use the same crappy PC parts (foxconn boards etc) that can be found in a multitude of 'beige' boxes. they just put them all together in a fancy box, stick on osx which is majority GNU and then charge 3 times the price for it all.

brilliant business as the kicker is that lots of suckers believe what Justin Long says and buy them.!!!

 

[pubwvj]

"Flat sales"

Mean while, the rest of the industry had negative sales along with the economy being massively down. So in relative terms Apple's doing great.

 

[localoid]

Simply indicative of consumer spending in the worst economic scare since 1982, any other argument is wishful thinking.

As you've pointed out recently in the infamous Firewire thread it makes good business sense for Apple to abandon some of its long time customers, because their numbers are so small:

"Alienating the traditional base? Ok, some of the traditional base no doubt."

And explaining how Apple won't lose any great deal of money of they lose business from audio and video people since their numbers are so few:

"Without a doubt the entire market for iPhones, iTunes, home video, web work and relatively safe computing (from malware) is a market that dwarfs video and audio production. In business only the balance sheet matters."

And pointing out that it would no great loss if audio and video producers left the Apple fold:

"Hey if it is produced on those awesome Windows Vista, 7, 8, 9 PC's it will still be viewable under OS X."



Yes. What else could it possibly be (other than a bad economy) that's caused this slump in Apple Mac sales?

 

[archipellago]

Flat is flat not going down and it has everything to do with the economy. I'll bet that sales go up in December. People are holding off until the holidays to buy.

And no, Apple does NOT need to cut prices. The products have never been over-inflated like houses or shares of dot-com stocks. If you went into a Ferrari dealership and said "Your sales are flat. Time to lower your prices," they'd thank you for the best bought of ROTFL they've had in months.

thats probably why FIAT is now effectively bust...

 

[matticus008]

People who used to buy cheap desktops that Apple doesn't make are now buying cheap laptops that Apple doesn't make. As a result, it makes it look like Apple's desktop sales are down, and Apple is losing notebook marketshare.

Actually, the numbers show that Apple continues to gain notebook market share at the expense of competitors.

Mean while, the rest of the industry had negative sales along with the economy being massively down. So in relative terms Apple's doing great.

The PC industry overall is up about 1.5%, so in relative terms Apple is down slightly (but within the margin, so technically at par) in terms of units shipped. They continue to outperform the industry in profitability, though.

apple just use the same crappy PC parts (foxconn boards etc) that can be found in a multitude of 'beige' boxes. they just put them all together in a fancy box, stick on osx which is majority GNU and then charge 3 times the price for it all.

I'm curious where I can find an exact MacBook replacement for $430. Please share; I would very much like to buy one for my niece instead of an Ubuntu eee.

 

[rickag]

Here are the numbers I got from Apple's filings. If I made any errors please feel free to correct me.

Quarterly Report Desktops in 1000s Laptops in 1000s
12/25/04 ______________623
3/26/05 ______________608
6/25/05 ______________687
12/31/05 ______________667
4/1/06 ______________614
7/1/06 ______________529
12/30/06 ______________637
3/31/07 ______________626
7/25/07 ______________634
12/29/07 ______________977_____________ 1,342
4/8/08 ______________856_____________ 1,433
7/21/08 ______________943_____________ 1,553
10/21/08 ______________943_____________ 1,675

I believe these numbers should dash any hope for an xMac like computer, unfortunately, for I believe it would actually help stimulate more growth for Apple, but these numbers don't back me up. It is sad that Apple is abandoning many of the consumer that would prefer such a machine.

 

[50548]

I didn't expect for desktop sales to be declining more than Windows...

Who should be surprised by that?

Firstly, Apple has been pushing laptops for years, and they constitute the majority of Apple computer sales for a long time already.

Secondly, it's obvious that, in a bankrupt country like the U.S., cheaper computers will be sold more easily, such as brandless machines, Dells and netbooks.

Thirdly, it's about time for Apple to prioritize more profitable and solid markets than the U.S..

Once the Greenspan-Shalom Bernanke money printing "crisis solutions" are no more and the trust in the dollar as a global currency disappears (since it's just based on "faith" and no objective parameters anymore), Apple will have a tough time selling anything in its home turf.

 

[Buachaill Dana]

Apple's computers are built in China, along with all the other crap we buy. There's no reason for prices to be as high as they are.
The only reason to justify it would be if they were built in the U.S. The MBP is built in China.
Update the Mini and stop being so arrogant, Apple.

WINNER...

apple just use the same crappy PC parts (foxconn boards etc) that can be found in a multitude of 'beige' boxes. they just put them all together in a fancy box, stick on osx which is majority GNU and then charge 3 times the price for it all.

brilliant business as the kicker is that lots of suckers believe what Justin Long says and buy them.!!!

Mostly True. macpros and imacs are made in europe. I used to build them myself. The laptops and ipods are made in china though. The parts are all stock parts you'll find in any regular PC. Apple just put them together in the factory, load osx and then ship them.
Thats why I find it hilarious when people on this site especially turn their noses up at regular PC's saying they're full of cheap parts when in fact apples own stuff uses similar hardware.

 

[matticus008]

Thats why I find it hilarious when people on this site especially turn their noses up at regular PC's saying they're full of cheap parts when in fact apples own stuff uses similar hardware.

PCs are not made from cheap parts. Cheap PCs are made from cheap parts. There is a reason for the price difference between a $700 Dell and a $1400 Dell with nearly identical specs, and it's not just because they can't keep track of their 10,000 products and eight different website sections.

 

[Hellhammer]

when not so good times are coming people stop spending money on stuff that is not so important (like things for entertaining).

 

[markgamber]

Apple has tons of cash sitting around, the economy won't bother them too much. The stockholders are those who are going to be screwed. Again. Then again, if you haven't sold yet, that's what you get for denying the obvious.

 

[Hellhammer]

Mostly True. macpros and imacs are made in europe. I used to build them myself. The laptops and ipods are made in china though. The parts are all stock parts you'll find in any regular PC. Apple just put them together in the factory, load osx and then ship them.
Thats why I find it hilarious when people on this site especially turn their noses up at regular PC's saying they're full of cheap parts when in fact apples own stuff uses similar hardware.

that's true! Apple uses exactly the same parts as PC's use. Apple does not make computer hardware (like procesoors etc.) There are big differences between PC's. you can buy acer for 300 euro and acer for a 1500 euro.

 

[localoid]

PCs are not made from cheap parts. Cheap PCs are made from cheap parts. There is a reason for the price difference between a $700 Dell and a $1400 Dell with nearly identical specs, and it's not just because they can't keep track of their 10,000 products and eight different website sections.

Right. The cheap components aren't sprinkled with magic pixie dust.

 

[Buachaill Dana]

PCs are not made from cheap parts. Cheap PCs are made from cheap parts. There is a reason for the price difference between a $700 Dell and a $1400 Dell with nearly identical specs, and it's not just because they can't keep track of their 10,000 products and eight different website sections.

that's true! Apple uses exactly the same parts as PC's use. Apple does not make computer hardware (like procesoors etc.) There are big differences between PC's. you can buy acer for 300 euro and acer for a 1500 euro.

Im aware of that. Its just that around here there doesn't seem to be that distinction. Its nearly always PC=cheap parts and Mac=quality parts. Thats just incorrect.

 

[iParis]

Well, this news isn't bad...
It's more positive than negative actually.

One of the several reasons I think the Mac Mini will be upgraded and see as $100 price drop.

 

[localoid]

Im aware of that. Its just that around here there doesn't seem to be that distinction. Its nearly always PC=cheap parts and Mac=quality parts. Thats just incorrect.

Apparently some Mac people don't understand the fact that their beloved Macs are made by a Original Design Manufacturer (ODM). You hear a lot of them claiming "Mac notebooks are just so-oo much better the junk Asus makes" for example, despite the fact the Asustek has manufactured many of the Apple iBooks, PowerBooks and MacBooks over the years.

 

[GenNovE]

china=cheaper labor then the U.S.
So why does apple charge so much for their hardware when
spec wise you can buy a comparable machine with more extras for less?
(forget about the casing & the linux based operating system)

I understand the nature of business. Normally for example you lower the price of a cd to lets say 10.99 but you mark the price up on another product by 3 bucks. It evens the "sale" out.

But apple is the only company that cuts a lot of corners on what they give you but NEVER cut on price so their profit is 1000%. Have you ever asked why they have so much money sitting without a debt?

THEY CUT NO CORNERS TO HELP YOU LOYALIST OUT but they will cut on their hardware expenses to up their profits.

If this is not taking advantage of intensily amored apple loyals.
THEN BY ALL MEANS KEEP CALLING MICROSOFT THE MOST EVIL COPMPANY IN THE WORLD.

 

[Buachaill Dana]

Apparently some Mac people don't understand the fact that their beloved Macs are made by a Original Design Manufacturer (ODM). You hear a lot of them claiming "Mac notebooks are just so-oo much better the junk Asus makes" for example, despite the fact the Asustek has manufactured many of the Apple iBooks, PowerBooks and MacBooks over the years.

Absolutely. Another thing is Apple use IE instead of an Apple solution on theyre manufacturing lines for tracking the product from start to finnish.

 

[matticus008]

Right. The cheap components aren't sprinkled with magic pixie dust.

If by "magic pixie dust" you mean 'passing strict review', then yes.

The electronics industry uses a number of methods to keep overall prices down, from multi-tier rating systems, grading criteria, tolerance standards to partial disablement and rebranding. Steep discounts are offered for the "almost" categories and for orders of superseded products. This allows the manufacturers to sell products that they'd otherwise have to discard, and allows consumers to have access to technology for a lower price. But as always, you get what you pay for, and that means assuming a higher risk (but may never have a problem, in which case the risk pays off).

The classic examples are the partly defective units sold as lower-end products (GeForce MX, Celerons) with defective components disabled (and sometimes non-defective parts to satisfy demand), processors sold as a lower-clock model to avoid triggering tolerance faults, LCD panels (lower grades sold in cheaper models or under different brand names), and deep out-of-spec and/or last-revision discounts on chipsets and ICs.

Different products use different components to achieve a desired target price. This is why you can find the same notebook in different models ranging from $700 to $2000, both within and across manufacturers.

Apparently some Mac people don't understand the fact that their beloved Macs are made by a Original Design Manufacturer (ODM). You hear a lot of them claiming "Mac notebooks are just so-oo much better the junk Asus makes" for example, despite the fact the Asustek has manufactured many of the Apple iBooks, PowerBooks and MacBooks over the years.

Many contract fabricators and manufacturers sell their own products, and in most cases they are cheaper and shoddier versions of the name-brand products they are under contract to make. Sometimes, these firms also put higher quality products into production in an effort to "break into" a market, as Asus has done in the past few years. The fact that the company makes good products under contract does not mean that they don't also make lesser products.

Samsung makes a great number of extremely high quality products; they also make a great deal of cheap crap, sometimes sourced by others and sometimes not.

 

[rhpenguin]

MMmmmmmmm.. Generic hardware in a beige box... om nom nom nom.

 

[hulugu]

Do some research - the failure rate for a non-franchise restaurant in the United States in 70% - the failure rate for a Mickie D's, 3%. I rest my case.

D

Mostly True. macpros and imacs are made in europe. I used to build them myself. The laptops and ipods are made in china though. The parts are all stock parts you'll find in any regular PC. Apple just put them together in the factory, load osx and then ship them.
Thats why I find it hilarious when people on this site especially turn their noses up at regular PC's saying they're full of cheap parts when in fact apples own stuff uses similar hardware.

Apple generally does a better job of choosing the parts that will be incorporated into a single machine. There's lots of little design choices which make a Mac easier to deal with generally. Of course, sometimes these design choices are less than ideal, such as the difficulty in extracting the HD from a MacBook Pro, for example.

There are good PCs and there are bad PCs, that's the difficulty in comparing a wide and deep market with Apple's smaller shallower pool.

 

[localoid]

If by "magic pixie dust" you mean 'passing strict review', then yes. ...

Apple should have used this "strict review" policy when making their choice for a Firewire chipset for the late-2007 MacBook Pros. Instead Apple used one that was incompatible with the majority of Firewire audio interfaces on the market.

there is a new FW 800 chip on the market from Agere, which seems to be incompatible (not only) to RMEs FireWire audio, and requires workarounds for successful operation.

The reason Apple used this chip instead of the former TI solution is easy to find: half the price and a lot smaller. So it is not astonishing that this chip now also begins to show up on Windows computers. We got our hands on a PCIe FireWire 800 card from Unibrain using this chip, and found the exact (!) same problems under Windows as under Mac OS X using this card.

Our examination of the problem showed that the Agere chip causes the Firefaces to issue a FireWire bus reset shortly after start of data transmission (isochronous mode).

They didn't (make that "strict review") then, and apparently failed to do so again in late-2008 when they made use of the same chipset in the shiny new MacBook Pros.