Yeah did some research and found out about paragon, i have a question about that, is it seamless, ie does it work with finder(or whatever else the file system explorer on OSX is called, i am not sure that it is finder) or do i have to use a separate software to see the NTFS file systems. Also if i have an external hdd will the read/write speeds be same as on Windows.
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Apple MacBook Pro 15 (high end) vs HP EliteBook 8560w
- Thread starter hawk1410
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Yeah did some research and found out about paragon, i have a question about that, is it seamless, ie does it work with finder(or whatever else the file system explorer on OSX is called, i am not sure that it is finder) or do i have to use a separate software to see the NTFS file systems. Also if i have an external hdd will the read/write speeds be same as on Windows.
Well I played with a MBP running OSX for some time and have now realized the OS is least of my concerns. And that MBP was also running Win 7 via BootCamp and OS is no longer a factor in my decision. I loved OSX and Win 7 works great for whenever i need it. I am right now 90% convinced of getting the MBP but since there are still 2 weeks left between now and when i will place my order so no saying for sure what i will end up getting. I am kind of fickle minded when it comes to buying stuff and i have plenty of time to decide. For eg i sold my Alienware m17x a month ago to buy a m18x instead and now i am 90% sure i want a MBP.
Only concern i have right now is the Temps. I am gonna be playing games on this thing and am concerned about the temps, i have seen a few threads that claim they the GPU is at 78 C max after a intensive session of Crysis 2, if that is what most people get then it is not bad at all.
Only concern i have right now is the Temps. I am gonna be playing games on this thing and am concerned about the temps, i have seen a few threads that claim they the GPU is at 78 C max after a intensive session of Crysis 2, if that is what most people get then it is not bad at all.
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you! here! what are you doing here! go back to notebookreview!
I have bought the mbp 13, and sincerely I dont miss win 7, I just VM the thing when at work and be done with that. The transition was quite easy, with some minor hiccups that have made me look at the web, and readily found the answers
Regarding the temps, the mbp 13 is no 15, but for me its quite on par with what my lenovo and other past laptops produced, and since the outside temps are quite similar (to the 15) its quite good, it will feel warm, but its not that scorching hot that we see, check the anandtech review for the temps on the case, notebookcheck also has a review of it with temps on the outside case.
And the best thing is the damn thunderbolt! we could hook up an egpu on that thing and still play games on it!
Well I was expecting to run into you here as i read in a thread that you recently bought the MBP 13. Thunderbolt eGPU is the only reason i started looking at the MBPs. After i sold my r3 i originally wanted to go for the m18x but then i decided to check out an eGPU solution instead, after reading up the numbers on an x220 + express card eGPU i did not think the numbers were that good. Next i checked out thunderbolt and my original choice was to go for the Vaio Z but Sony implemented LightPeak in their own sort of method thus it was a no go. Naturally my next option was the MBP. I wanted the 13 but sadly the display was only 1280x800, so naturally i decided to go for the 15inch model. With the HP i will probably have to sacrifice my gaming needs but i really like the laptop. And after doing research about the MBP i am liking it more and more. Yeah i checked out most reviews but dont know why they just give the case temps, all i care about are internals. Did check out a few thread here and on NBR and got somewhat mixed conclusions, some claimed temps which were normal while a few had temps which were alarmingly high.
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I was on the same spot as you regarding the vaio Z, I needed a laptop NOW, my gpu had died and it wasnt using thunderbolt, thus the choice was quite between the mbp and the x220, since I could grab the mbp for the same price as the x220 and just walking 15 min from my home to a store, it was a quite easy choice, since the x220 I would have to import fromt the US.
The case temps are the thing that people nag apple about, they say its scorching hot and so forth thats why the reviewers usually post those numbers. Regarding temps of the innards, they are depending on when you bought, quite good, they usually hover in the high 80c, in the latter macbooks, if you want to buy one that is refurbed and bought when it was at launch or close to it, the paste job is quite atrocious and repasting becomes a necessity. Im going to repaste mine when I get the memory and the caddy, but when I play very cpu intensive games like europa universalis 3 (yeah its old but when you are late in campaign its quite heavy on the cpu) I get high 80c, granted this is the 13 model.
With IC 24 Im expecting to lower the fan rpm, not to drop in temps.
btw regarding the egpu thing, Im watching it closely, will be sure to drop you a pm
I have a thinkpad X200 and an early 2011 macbook pro 13. And I just recommended the elitebook lineup to my parents. I have never used an elitebook before but I think they are going to be very similar to thinkpads in terms of user experience. They both have that spill-proof keyboard, military grade spec and similar keyboards. I don't think they differ alot.
First of all you can take the OS out of the equation. They both perform very well. You can customize windows to look like os x. So thats not a big problem. I do have to mention that os x works better for me because I use an iphone and an airport express. Streaming music to the airport express works better in OS X than on windows. You will know why when you use both machines. But if you aren't using any other apple gear than you have nothing to worry about.
Lets look at the touchpad/trackpoint/keyboard of both laptops. The trackPOINT is a lot more accurate and faster than any touchpad you will ever encounter on a notebook. Easily noticeable when playing flash games. You will never have to lift your finger of the keyboard unlike the touchpad either. But you do get more fatigue and joint pains with a trackpoint.
What about scrolling? Mac has 2 finger scrolling and 3 finger forward/backward navigation. Works great and you will never have to lift your arm ever at all. That is a very nice feature since I am extremely lazy. If I am only web browsing this is my preferred method to do it. On the thinkpad I use the page up and down buttons to scroll. Slightly more annoying because I have to move my arm over to the page up/down buttons and back to the trackpoint. On the other hand it does give you tactile feedback and also the thinkpad has one killer feature that the macbook does not have. It's the middle mouse button. Opening and closing tabs/programs with just one click of this button is something I miss alot. I rate this just as high as 2 finger scrolling. I wish I could do this on a mac with a 3 finger tap gesture.
Lets look at the keyboard. I like the thinkpads keyboard better. Plain and simple. I don't want to use keyboard short cuts. I want to have dedicated delete/home/end buttons. Especially those three buttons. I miss them alot. The keyboard of the thinkpad has a better feel and tactile feedback. I like the layout a lot more than that of the macbook. The command button placement is awkward compare to the ctrl button on the thinkpad. The thinkpad just have more buttons and that is in my book always better.
Overal I rate the keyboard/trackpoint of the thinkpad higher than the macbook. Yet the macbook offers the better browsing experience because you just don't have to lift you arm at all despite not having a middle mouse button. If you are looking for function over form then I'd get the thinkpad
I think we can safely assume that out of these three notebooks that the macbook has the best design in terms of look, feel and user experience. But the heat management just suck on macbooks. When I play a light flash game the fans are already on full power and the aluminum heats up very quickly that it becomes uncomfortable to hold on your lap. This just does not happen with the thinkpad. Another gripe is that all the usb ports are on one side. And this is very very very annoying for me too. Whats the big deal of just placing one and only one usb port on the right side? Does it suddenly make the laptop look ugly?
First of all you can take the OS out of the equation. They both perform very well. You can customize windows to look like os x. So thats not a big problem. I do have to mention that os x works better for me because I use an iphone and an airport express. Streaming music to the airport express works better in OS X than on windows. You will know why when you use both machines. But if you aren't using any other apple gear than you have nothing to worry about.
Lets look at the touchpad/trackpoint/keyboard of both laptops. The trackPOINT is a lot more accurate and faster than any touchpad you will ever encounter on a notebook. Easily noticeable when playing flash games. You will never have to lift your finger of the keyboard unlike the touchpad either. But you do get more fatigue and joint pains with a trackpoint.
What about scrolling? Mac has 2 finger scrolling and 3 finger forward/backward navigation. Works great and you will never have to lift your arm ever at all. That is a very nice feature since I am extremely lazy. If I am only web browsing this is my preferred method to do it. On the thinkpad I use the page up and down buttons to scroll. Slightly more annoying because I have to move my arm over to the page up/down buttons and back to the trackpoint. On the other hand it does give you tactile feedback and also the thinkpad has one killer feature that the macbook does not have. It's the middle mouse button. Opening and closing tabs/programs with just one click of this button is something I miss alot. I rate this just as high as 2 finger scrolling. I wish I could do this on a mac with a 3 finger tap gesture.
Lets look at the keyboard. I like the thinkpads keyboard better. Plain and simple. I don't want to use keyboard short cuts. I want to have dedicated delete/home/end buttons. Especially those three buttons. I miss them alot. The keyboard of the thinkpad has a better feel and tactile feedback. I like the layout a lot more than that of the macbook. The command button placement is awkward compare to the ctrl button on the thinkpad. The thinkpad just have more buttons and that is in my book always better.
Overal I rate the keyboard/trackpoint of the thinkpad higher than the macbook. Yet the macbook offers the better browsing experience because you just don't have to lift you arm at all despite not having a middle mouse button. If you are looking for function over form then I'd get the thinkpad
I think we can safely assume that out of these three notebooks that the macbook has the best design in terms of look, feel and user experience. But the heat management just suck on macbooks. When I play a light flash game the fans are already on full power and the aluminum heats up very quickly that it becomes uncomfortable to hold on your lap. This just does not happen with the thinkpad. Another gripe is that all the usb ports are on one side. And this is very very very annoying for me too. Whats the big deal of just placing one and only one usb port on the right side? Does it suddenly make the laptop look ugly?
You know I put a lot of effort to write that and I don't even get any reactions from the OP or anyone else?
Did not see the thread since my last post.
The trackpoint stuff does not matter a lot as i dont like using a track point, i prefer the touchpad. The HP and MBP both have similar touchpads in terms of feel, ie both are glass touchpads. The MBP has better multitouch support but that is mainly an OS thing, win 7 does not really support multitouch trackpads that well. You are right about the extra mouse button though, but i think i can live with that. In terms of KBs thinkpads are undoubtedly the best but both the HP and MBP have chiclet KBs so i expect both to be similar. But the HP does have an advantage that it offers a numpad but i dont really ever use it. USB ports problem also concerns me, i am shocked at the fact that how Apple can design such a user friendly OS and not think of putting a usb on the other side. But i think this was cause of the design, if you see the case opened at the bottom you'll see what i am talking about, the other side has the Hard drive, the ODD and the airport assembly thus no space for a USB port.
In the end i think i am gonna go with the MBP simply cause of the eGPU thing, i dont think i can stand loosing the ability to game on the laptop. With the HP i will loose that, and honestly even though at first i thought i could live with the M5950 in the Hp i dont think it will be enough.
The trackpoint stuff does not matter a lot as i dont like using a track point, i prefer the touchpad. The HP and MBP both have similar touchpads in terms of feel, ie both are glass touchpads. The MBP has better multitouch support but that is mainly an OS thing, win 7 does not really support multitouch trackpads that well. You are right about the extra mouse button though, but i think i can live with that. In terms of KBs thinkpads are undoubtedly the best but both the HP and MBP have chiclet KBs so i expect both to be similar. But the HP does have an advantage that it offers a numpad but i dont really ever use it. USB ports problem also concerns me, i am shocked at the fact that how Apple can design such a user friendly OS and not think of putting a usb on the other side. But i think this was cause of the design, if you see the case opened at the bottom you'll see what i am talking about, the other side has the Hard drive, the ODD and the airport assembly thus no space for a USB port.
In the end i think i am gonna go with the MBP simply cause of the eGPU thing, i dont think i can stand loosing the ability to game on the laptop. With the HP i will loose that, and honestly even though at first i thought i could live with the M5950 in the Hp i dont think it will be enough.
johnnyturbouk
macrumors 68000
I did it - was working 12hrs a day, travelled 2 1/2 hrs and had exams... OSX took me a whole of 2 days to get comfortable with and i would say 2 wks to get a workin grasp with.
I know when people say they prefer the touchpad over the trackpoint its because they never have used a trackpoint before and those 3 minutes playing with a trackpoint in a shop leaves a bad impression on them. Well I can tell you it really is not like after using it for a while.
Btw you said you were getting the MBP because of the EGPU thing. Well that does not make any sense since the elitebook has an expresscard slot and PROVEN solutions like vidock, diydock. But on the other hand there is nothing out yet for thunderbolt. There is nothing on the market for your new MBP. It's all based on theory and speculation. Second you need to hook an external gpu up to a monitor and a power supply. It's not practical at all. Those gpu's that come with the elitebook and mbp are already powerful enough to run modern games with decent framerate.
I think you should get a mbp because you have already made up your mind and it seems you will be happy with it. But you should know that you are wrong about a few things.
I know there is nothing on the market yet, but i am kind of buying based on the speculation. Sonnet has already announced a Thunderbolt to external PCIe and it should be out soon. Though it is not the hardware part that i am worried about, i am afraid that we might not be able to get stuff working on the software front. Anyway that is why i am getting the high end MBP cause the 6750m is no slouch. If Thunderbolt does not work out then might sell the laptop, but i am fine and totally prepared for that scenario. Getting an eGPU with the HP does not make sense cause well it is quite large and heavy, and honestly i think getting another m17x would be a better option. Cause well 8560W + eGPU is not gonna be more portable than my (ex)AW. If i decide to go for a express card eGPU solution then i will probably get the X220.
About the trackpoint, ever since i sold my Alienware i have been using my dads T410 and honestly i dont find the Trackpoint too convincing. While yes i do at times prefer it to the track pad on the T410 but i what i meant was that i will take the MBPs multitouch track pad over a trackpoint anyday. So right now things are looking more and more grim for the HP, it has completely lost the OS advantage, it only has the build quality and display advantages. I am even willing to rule out the build quality advantage cause i really dont have a rough usage, i mean i have had plastic laptops like the SXPS 16 and the Studio 15 in the past and was never even bothered by their build quality. And the MBP is definitely better than them atleast.