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I don't find Samsung's products cheap at all. Regardless, making something look like something else isn't what normally sells a product, unless you're that guy that loves to brag about owning knock-offs (which I believe is more of a minority than a majority). Usually, the bigger question is, 'what can product x do (or do better) that product y can't?'

That really wasn't the question, or the issue. The iPhone introduced a set of entirely new metaphors to smartphone design and operation and the claim was that Samsung copied that in order to make competitive products, having quickly recognised that the new metaphors would change the market - as indeed they did.

Apple's basic argument is that the iPhone was such a game changer that it spurred massive and almost immediate growth in what was then a relatively small market sector: smartphones. And that if Samsung hadn't illegally copied Apple's work, Apple would have sold a significant proportion of the smartphones which Samsung sold and which were based on Apple's intellectual property.

It's hard to judge whether Apple are right in that regard, but there is no doubt that the way smartphones worked before the iPhone and the way they worked after it has changed the dynamics of that market sector massively. It follows that they generated a great deal of interest in smartphones that otherwise wouldn't have existed. Samsung's best defence to keep a lid on potential damages payable would be to argue that Apple's pricing (non-subsidised via AT&T if you recall) meant that much of that interest would not have translated into actual sales, and that where Samsung took advantage of the market was in undercutting Apple's prices and thus generating new sales Apple wouldn't have had.
 
But, now you are comparing it to the 4, not 3GS which it's most strikingly similar to.

You point is irrelevant. The point he was making is that Apple was dishonest with that piece of "evidence" by scaling the Samsung phone to the same size as the iPhone even though it was considerably larger and they showed the "app drawer" screen with the black background and not the home screen with a wallpaper and widgets that show how different it really was.
 
Demeaning even to the inevitable "grandmother who doesn't know much about tech and wouldn't know the difference" that is sure to pop up here as anecdotal evidence.

If that is the case, I think he would be making a case for a counter claim in my mind. ;)
 

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You point is irrelevant. The point he was making is that Apple was dishonest with that piece of "evidence" by scaling the Samsung phone to the same size as the iPhone even though it was considerably larger and they showed the "app drawer" screen with the black background and not the home screen with a wallpaper and widgets that show how different it really was.
It's also the way Samsung advertised the phone so it's a fair comparison.
 
This whole argument can be summed up today as it has been able to since the start.

If you're a fan of Apple products, you see a legitimate issue here.

If you're not a fan of Apple products, you don't.

It's really that simple.

Sure the phones look alike... why? Because there are only so many ways you can make a cell phone, that functions well.

Apple did the R&D, Samsung reaped the benefits.

Now lets move on to serious issues.
 
does he really think that apple consumers are that dumb to be that confused between the two products? seems more like a jab at apple users

MOST of the smart phone consumers do not spend their days reading MR and similar.

I remember walking into a cell phone store asking about an iPhone and been steered towards the Samsung (I don't know if it was salesperson bias, different in commissions, or pure ignorance) and being told they were the same. I see shiny brochures from the carriers in my area (Telus, Rogers, Bell) and if I just looked at those brochures in my newspapers, I'd barely know the iPhone existed.

Even today, most consumers don't know the difference between available iPhone models. Most also think Android is Android, and the vast majority, while being aware of the Samsung S4, don't know there are multiple S4's, let alone know which is which.

I can easily accept that confusion existed.
 
I thought it was the Aston Martin that the Fusion tried to mimic:
Image

Either way, it's a flawed logic because Ford doesn't directly compete with Jaguar/Aston Martin. They are in different market segments, and it would be fairly ridiculous to suggest that a cheap Ford could cannibalise the sales of a high end car.

The Samsung vs Apple case is different because Samsung used Apple's styling to directly target their market.
 
NO, no they didn't.

I can't believe the amount of people who've convinced themselves that the iPhone was not a revolution in just about every aspect of the phone. There was NOTHING remotely similar to it before it came out and after it, well, everything is similar to it.

This.
 
Showing those doctored images again? The Galaxy S was MUCH larger than the iPhone 3G/3Gs... And more powerful, too. Not to mention that it was NOT locked into the iTunes store. It actually was the phone that made me sell my iPhone 3G and then buy the Galaxy S2 when it was launched.

Anyway, who cares at all about that topic anymore? Samsung got a speeding ticket and they're now negotiating the sum they have to pay. In the meantime, they found their own design language, innovated and improved their technology like crazy and are outselling everybody else. Looks like a huge success story to me.

Comedy. Why are you even on an Apple forum?
 
No they didn't. People always love to claim this without actual proof. And no, the LG Prada doesn't count.

Why not? It was one of the very few phones that took the primarily-screen candy bar phone designs before the iPhone came out.

The biggest complaint I have every time this stupid ass, long since tired case comes up is how everyone here accuses everyone else of copying Apple's technology. The truth is, anyone could have made an iPhone like device before the iPhone arrived. The vast majority of the technology in it was widely available, and already well researched. It's just that no one took the initiative to make one themselves because, well, they were unimaginative and weren't too keen on bucking the current trends.

I give Apple props for proving to the world that touchscreen-centric phones could be profitable and easy to use. And yes, I'll give them direct credit for kicking off the entire mobile revolution. But I'm not gonna say they invented the entire concept of capacitive touchscreens, gestures, ARM processors, App Stores, or anything else like that. They did it all well, but they didn't necessarily do it all first. And doing something well doesn't give you ownership of the entire concept.

That said, Samsung's first Galaxy phone obviously did take a few cues from the iPhone. No doubt about that.

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Comedy. Why are you even on an Apple forum?

He likes Samsung, I bet! We should all get together and beat him up after school cuz we're all 12, and can't handle different opinions about stuff!
 
MacNN has a report about the judge tossing 4 out of five patents from Apple.

MacNN had it wrong, no patent has been tossed, what has been decided is that no "lost profits" damages can be asked for 4 of the 5 patents, they can be asked just for the pinch to zoom patent

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NO, no they didn't.

I can't believe the amount of people who've convinced themselves that the iPhone was not a revolution in just about every aspect of the phone. There was NOTHING remotely similar to it before it came out and after it, well, everything is similar to it.

Yes, because the LG Prada didn't existed before the iPhone

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No they didn't. People always love to claim this without actual proof. And no, the LG Prada doesn't count.

Yes, doesn't count because it will break your reality
 
NO, no they didn't.

I can't believe the amount of people who've convinced themselves that the iPhone was not a revolution in just about every aspect of the phone. There was NOTHING remotely similar to it before it came out and after it, well, everything is similar to it.

Don't be such a twit- you were probably 9 years old at the time. The 'revolution' that came along with the iPhone was it's software and ease of use. Plenty of 'smart phones' were available at the time that had more functionality than the iPhone. They weren't as 'sleek' and easy to use as the iPhone but they did more 'stuff'.

… and whoever said 'LG Prada doesn't count', you need to grow up too. It was released before the iPHone. Why do you say it 'doesn't count'?

Don't get me wrong, I love my iPhone and have done for years. People on here need to grow up. It's embarrassing having Apple stuff these days since the 'fan base' seems to consist of a bunch of moronic 12 year olds who think that Apple is an angel and never does anything wrong itself.
 
Also, that image showed the app drawer, not the homescreen. The size and home looked more like this:

View attachment 447444

That said, I do think Samsung tried to make some of their phones look as close to the iPhone 3G as they thought they could without outright copying.



Neither funny nor appropriate. Instead, how about giving an intelligent response to that person.

Yes, I believe Samsung did try to get close but not too close. For Samsung now its not about losing or wining the case. By imitating so close, which is not good thing for a company of this size, they have already gone passed the competition. Its like they showed the world, everything is fair in Love, War & Business.

And i believe, in not so distant future, It will be all Google vs Samsung, check out the Samsung glass patents and concept design. I wholeheartedly say that Glass is fully owned by Google, they have put their blood and sweat in it. Its their legitimate baby and we'll see Samsung imitate that too for sure.
 
Why not? It was one of the very few phones that took the primarily-screen candy bar phone designs before the iPhone came out.

The biggest complaint I have every time this stupid ass, long since tired case comes up is how everyone here accuses everyone else of copying Apple's technology. The truth is, anyone could have made an iPhone like device before the iPhone arrived. The vast majority of the technology in it was widely available, and already well researched. It's just that no one took the initiative to make one themselves because, well, they were unimaginative and weren't too keen on bucking the current trends.

I give Apple props for proving to the world that touchscreen-centric phones could be profitable and easy to use. And yes, I'll give them direct credit for kicking off the entire mobile revolution. But I'm not gonna say they invented the entire concept of capacitive touchscreens, gestures, ARM processors, App Stores, or anything else like that. They did it all well, but they didn't necessarily do it all first. And doing something well doesn't give you ownership of the entire concept.

That said, Samsung's first Galaxy phone obviously did take a few cues from the iPhone. No doubt about that.

----------

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the LG Prada was on sale before the iPhone, but the iPhone was on display at MacWorld in 2007(January) before the Prada ever sold.

And it is directly because of the iPhone that the All Touchscreen buttonless phone is even a hit. Apple didn't invent multitouch, but they were certainly the first ones to implement it into a product you could actually purchase. There was nothing remotely close to the iPhone before it, and unfortunately Samsung, and others had to respond with a direct copy of it to stay in the game. I remember how other phones started to come out like the Nokia N900 that tried to differentiate itself from the iPhone with a keyboard, but lacked multi touch. Instead of pinch to zoom, they offered some weird circular motion you did with your finger on the screen in order to enlarge photos. The Palm Pre, and WebOS was proof that you could be competitive with the iPhone without slavishly copying it, but Palm had no money(even with Elevation partners backing them), and the Pre hardware sucked. Everything related to the iPhone like multi touch, touch scrolling, pinch to zoom, etc...seems so commonplace now, but I am reminded of this article from 2009. Apple Asked Google Not to Use Multi-Touch in Android?
 
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Also, that image showed the app drawer, not the homescreen. The size and home looked more like this:

View attachment 447444

That said, I do think Samsung tried to make some of their phones look as close to the iPhone 3G as they thought they could without outright copying.



Neither funny nor appropriate. Instead, how about giving an intelligent response to that person.

However in a lot of marketing materials and even the dummy phone home screens, they showed the homescreen grid. Even though the Galaxy S was bigger, especially without direct comparison with the iPhone 3G beside it, it was pretty alarming how similar the phone was and presented.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the LG Prada was on sale before the iPhone, but the iPhone was on display at MacWorld in 2007(January) before the Prada ever sold. […]

According to Wikipedia: images of the LG Prada first appeared on Dec. 15 2006 (e.g., Engadget), an official LG press release with an image appeared on January 18, 2007, and the phone went on sale on May 2007. The iPhone was first announced at MacWorld on Jan 8, 2007, and went on sale June 29, 2007. LG talked about suing Apple, but never did… well, you all can read Wikipedia just as well as I can…

Given the nearly simultaneous release dates, either company would have had to have stolen trade secrets to have copied each other… possibly they did, who knows. Or possibly the coincidental timing was the result of a capacitive touch screen of the right size and features becoming available.
 
But you don't see what Samsung did as a blatant attempt to capitalize on the initial iPhone's popularity? Something that may very well have propelled them to be as popular worldwide as they are today?

I guess it depends on your interpretation of a blatant attempt. The business world is what it is. Healthy competition offers consumers choices. Monopolies ruin healthy business.

There are ignorant people out there and there are people that know what they want. There are people that can't afford the same things as the Jones's, but would like to feel as though they can get close. I like choice. I could also wonder that if nothing ever came out to push the evolution of one device over another, where would technology be?

I see it as healthy. Having someone stepping on your toes can have one of two effects. You can sit and sulk about it, or you can fight and move forward; become better and learn from your mistakes.

That really wasn't the question, or the issue. The iPhone introduced a set of entirely new metaphors to smartphone design and operation and the claim was that Samsung copied that in order to make competitive products, having quickly recognised that the new metaphors would change the market - as indeed they did.

Apple's basic argument is that the iPhone was such a game changer that it spurred massive and almost immediate growth in what was then a relatively small market sector: smartphones. And that if Samsung hadn't illegally copied Apple's work, Apple would have sold a significant proportion of the smartphones which Samsung sold and which were based on Apple's intellectual property.

A somewhat fair argument, but some would argue there are extreme Apple Haters out there that never would have bought an iPhone just because it's an Apple device. When another similar device came out, they were finally able to purchase a product from a manufacturer they were more willing to do business with. It comes back to choices.

Others would argue that there was enough of a difference in the OS that it was more of an idea that was stolen.

It's hard to judge whether Apple are right in that regard, but there is no doubt that the way smartphones worked before the iPhone and the way they worked after it has changed the dynamics of that market sector massively. It follows that they generated a great deal of interest in smartphones that otherwise wouldn't have existed. Samsung's best defence to keep a lid on potential damages payable would be to argue that Apple's pricing (non-subsidised via AT&T if you recall) meant that much of that interest would not have translated into actual sales, and that where Samsung took advantage of the market was in undercutting Apple's prices and thus generating new sales Apple wouldn't have had.

That's a fair argument. It makes sense.
 
Or possibly the coincidental timing was the result of a capacitive touch screen of the right size and features becoming available.

This. The time was ripe for all the technology to move out of industrial usage -- and cell manufacturer R&D -- into the mass consumer market.

First, all-touch was a hot idea. Samsung even came out with an all-touch phone in the summer of 2006:

2006_samsung_SGH-Z610.png

Capacitive was big in phone R&D in the year before the iPhone came out.

2006_capactive.png

It was featured in many 2006 all-touch phone concepts and demo units. The Synaptics Onyx had it. The Linux developer phone announced two months before the iPhone was supposed to have it and pinch-zoom.

concept_phones.PNG

The thing is, the consumer world just wasn't paying much attention at the time, and manufacturers were unwilling to jump totally away from their legacy enterprise customers.

What was needed was for a company like Apple to do it, because they had no legacy phone to stay compatible with at the time, and they could get the publicity as well.

Of course, now Apple has years of legacy to work with, which is why they're now in a similar situation stuck on certain resolutions, screen sizes, UI ideas, input methods, etc.
 
"Samsung is run by a Korean Crime Family Boss". How dare anybody make such a statement?

It's really sad when a discussion about innovation, legality, and such, turns into something not quite at the same level, as in this case.

Well, it's Samsung's job to try to get people to question its competitors design strategy. But by making a clone of the design with a few differences and claiming, "See we know better, we put a usb card in it, we have flash, we have a stylus, WE know how to design better than Apple" they basically lied to everyone and used the iPhone design for AND against them in a horrifyingly amoral way. But we already knew that Samsung is run by a Korean Crime Family Boss and they are basically the Far East version of the Sopranos, complete with a "front".
 
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