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Apple May Not Launch Updated Mac Studio With M2 Ultra Chip Due to Similarity With Upcoming Mac Pro

Apple does something cool with the Mac for the first time in ages and then they kill it? Sounds about right.

I'm pretty sure I wondered in the comments about this on one of those stories about the M2 Extreme being cancelled. Hope they bring this back.

I feel like at a minimum they could offer the M2 Max in the Mac Studio, right? Would still be a potent little desktop.
 
UK-MacAddict said:
Ridiculous and pathetic really at this point. Holding back features and products for pricing structures again. Apple are really racing to the bottom in terms of building great products for consumers.

Just put the best chips in and let consumers decide. But of course Apple are penny pinching greedy gits at the moment so want to rob the customers blind.

Pay £10,000 starting price for Mac Pro with M2 Ultra when you can get it for £3999 if they put it in the Mac Studio.
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Hey, we can't expect Apple to struggle and limp along with a mere $50 billion in cash on hand, can we?
 
Warped9 said:
If the Mac Studio is that good then focus on that Studio and forget the Mac Pro.
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This is a real issue for Apple, actually.

Ideally, you would purchase all their product line.

But as computers get more and more powerful, we end up with a scenario where just one or two device could take care of all your needs. Ironically, Apple wanting to raise prices also guarantees you will buy less devices.

They are trying to create artificial barriers with the iPhone / iPad, but eventually, if they don't offer a cellphone or a tablet with a full-blown operating system, someone will. And in fact, the competition is already doing that.

For example, Android phones can ALREADY run native Windows ARM and run lightweight tasks and even run lightweight games.

We're not talking about virtualization, but BOOTING into ARM Windows.
The moment someone makes it easier booting into full-blown Windows from a cellphone, Apple will be left behind on lightweight desktops.
 
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Wait, what is the point of the Mac Pro if it has the same Ultra chip as the Mac Studio?
Just more slots and ports? What can you even add in those slots? GPU and RAM are fixed, right? So that just leaves storage? And ports can be added with a hub.
So with Mac Pro all you’d get is upgradeable internal storage and extra built-in ports, but it will probably cost at least twice as much as the Studio and take up at least twice the space? Is there really a market for that?

Oh and better thermals. But is the Studio’s thermals holding back the Ultra chip that much?

I don’t know, I’m perplexed. Seems like Apple should just wait until they have a chip appropriate for a Mac Pro before releasing the Mac Pro.
 
MacFin said:
Apple should just release the Mac Studio with an M2 Max chip and call it a day. No need to include the Ultra option anymore since for the majority of the people who want this type of product, the regular M2 Max chip would be more than sufficient. So Apple, you have my blessing to keep your Ultra chips exclusive to the Mac Pro whenever you finally get around announcing it.
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100%. I'm looking at the Mac Mini (M2 Pro) right now...adding on 32GB and 1TB option. Educational pricing. It's just a couple hundred under the Mac Studio Max with 1TB. If the pricing difference stayed the same, but the Studio had the M2 Max bump - easy decision and order would be in. OOOF.
 
bousozoku said:
Why bother with the Mac Pro at all?
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As someone who has had several Macs at any point in time over the last 15 years, I can tell you there is a BIG point in having the Mac Pro - it is the only Mac that you can piece configure properly and which you can upgrade as GPUs, for instance, get better. As a photo-/videographer, I have always had a Mac Pro to do my professional work. As a prosumer, I have always had an iMac, iMac Pro, and now a Mac Studio to do my personal stuff. And in the living room, connected to my TV, always a Mac Mini. Different computers, different usage.

The vast majority in this forum hasn't bought a Mac Pro in the last 10 years, and it shows. Anyone asking what it is for does not realize how necessary such a product is and why that space CANNOT be filled with a Mac Studio. It used to be the CPU(s) that set the Mac Pro aside, but these days it is the expandability.

This is also why it will be the most bloody expensive Mac Pro of all time when it is finally announced. Tweaking Apple Silicon to allow for more RAM, PCIe slots, and changing GPUs, is (I'm sure) challenging and expensive. The upcoming Mac Pro will NOT be for mere mortals; it will start at $10K, and only the sky will be limit on how much money you can spend on it.
 
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A Mac Pro tower only makes sense if you can upgrade the ram, storage, and add additional PCI-e cards. Or at the very least full support for external PCI-e enclosures via TB4.

I still don't expect Apple to release a tower (MacPro) with the same M2 Ultra chip as currently imagined. I personally think it will be more like a Xeon chip vs how intel makes i9 (for example). It wouldn't make any sense to build in a GPU, or have say accellerator engines for H.264/5/ProRaw/etc. Remove the built in RAM and storage. Cut all that out, and make an 8, 16, and 32 (2x16) core chip design. No e Cores, just P cores at 4-4.5Ghz. It should have the AL/ML (16-32 cores for those). Double the cache of the current Max.


For the 8 to 16 core variant, it's only 1 chip like the M1 Max. For the 32, it's like the M1 Ultra, 2 fused chips. If they want to go extreme, then double that for 64 in a dual socket configuration. Support up to 1TB Ram on the Ultra, and 2TB on the Extreme. 4 bays for HD/SSD/M.2. I'd go with whatever is smallest and fastest. Maybe 1 bay for an old style drive, and 3 for M.2. 4 PCI-e slots. Built in 10Gb network, 4 USB-C/TB4 ports, 2USB/A. Comes with an Apple GPU card with 32GB ram. Does all the stuff that was removed from this new chip (32 GPU cores, and the accelerator stuff). Offer that as base, then 64GB, 64 GPU Core. And for those deep pockets, a monster 128/128 card.

Maybe the system doesn't provide 800GB memory bandwidth like the M1 Ultra does, but you can expand as much as you need. Maybe the system disk speed isn't as fast as it can be on the Studio. But, you can add as much as you need. Plus with a few extra PCI-e slots you get to expand it however you need to. Maybe they support AMD again for video cards too. Either way, they can justify this kind of system and still keep the Studio available. For many the studio is perfect. They rarely change anything, and in 5-7 years of use, it will serve them very well. For those that need to make changes more frequently you have a fully expandable Mac. And yes, it will be just as expensive as the current ones, but way more powerful.
 
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sam_dean said:
2022 Mac Studio was released in March 2022. That was 10.5 months ago.

I find it odd that no new M2 Max or M2 Ultra refresh will be done by June for WWDC 2023.

Apple expects users to replace their macOS devices every 4 years. By Dec 2023 would make the 2019 Mac Pro a 4 yr Mac.

The 2023 Mac mini M2 Pro has a very similar raw performance benchmark result of a 2022 Mac Studio M1 Max..

Mac Pro is just a Mac Studio with PCIe slots. I would not be surprised that >50% of Mac Pro users never used those PCIe slots. They bought a Mac Pro because they need the Xeons and possibly the RAM or SSD.
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Umm 100% of Mac Pro users use those PCI and memory slots - for graphics cards and accelerators, memory expansion, high end network interfaces, hard drive expansion and other specialized interface cards used by video, audio, design and scientific professionals!
That is the entire point of why they pay $10,0000 and up for these machines - otherwise they would just get an iMac/ MacStudio and call it a day!
 
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This is pretty disappointing on both sides - I just bought an M1 Max Studio from the costco sale, and I love it so far. The Studio is the trash can mac pro, reborn in an era where the idea actually makes sense (Everything is usb-c/thunderbolt now, so 4/6 TB ports can actually connect basically everything you need.) It's got a ton of speed, awesome connectivity, runs cool as a cucumber, quiet and has low power draw. I really hope this isn't the end for the line, I could definitely see myself upgrading after the next chip process size change.

But on the mac pro side - the Studio is not a true mac pro, neither was the trash can. A mac pro that can't have nearly unlimited ram/ssd/expansion just doesn't make any sense.
 
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Mac studio is a fantastic machine. Powerful enough for most professionals. Small enough to travel with. Affordable for most with a reason to buy it. It truly hit a sweet spot apple hasn’t filled for years. Mine will last 4 to 5 years. Truly hope there’s something to replace it in that time that is similar.
 
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So I bought another soon to be orphaned device from Apple? Of course it works great, I just don't care for the one and done expensive product lines.
 
AdamJD said:
100%. I'm looking at the Mac Mini (M2 Pro) right now...adding on 32GB and 1TB option. Educational pricing. It's just a couple hundred under the Mac Studio Max with 1TB. If the pricing difference stayed the same, but the Studio had the M2 Max bump - easy decision and order would be in. OOOF.
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I feel you. I have M1 Mac Mini, and I have wanted to upgrade to Mac Studio ever since it was released. But due to its insane delays in shipping times, I just didn't feel like placing an order and hence waited (and waited). And then shortly after M2 was already out, I obviously had less interest in investing in M1 Mac Studio, since who wants the old-gen chips if the next-gen is already being rolled out?

What people tend to forget is that Mac Studio was the last one to get M1 Max chips on March 2022, and the regular M2 chips were released only four (4) months later in July. At that point, I was like I might well just wait for the next-gen version of Mac Studio since I was not in a real rush to upgrade. Plus, the Mac Studio delivery times for custom configurations were still showing as 2-3 months in fall 2022.

But what I really hate is that Apple is yet again playing this silly game that forces a group of pro-consumers to scratch their heads should they buy the old Mac Studio or get the new Mac Mini with M2 Pro since their ideal solution isn't out yet. I really don't want either what Apple is currently offered; I want Mac Studio with an M2 Max chip (or give me a 27" iMac with M2 Max and I will be even happier). Like you said now Mac Studio and Mac Mini with M2 Pro are priced in such a weird manner that I don't know what to think... So the best option for me is to wait.

Anyway, I'm really hoping Apple will release Mac Studio with M2 Max in March since that would be a smart move. Get the last batch of old 5mm chips out before 3mm chips come in. However, knowing Apple they might not do that and just keep it stuck in the M1 tier who knows for how long.
 
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Has anyone considered the possibility that every conceivable marketing strategy and engineering design for the next Mac Pro was worked out YEARS ago during endless product development meetings?

Does anyone really think that every question and worry and “idea” about the next Mac Pro hadn’t been figured out YEARS ago?
 
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hooptyuber said:
Hey, we can't expect Apple to struggle and limp along with a mere $50 billion in cash on hand, can we?
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They would have far more than that as cash in the bank if Tim idiot didn't take it all out to fund share buybacks to line the pockets of shareholders who'd historically didn't get a penny from Steve Jobs.

Now he only exists to please them not the consumers and it shows with the ever increasing prices.
 
sam_dean said:
Mac Pro is just a Mac Studio with PCIe slots. I would not be surprised that >50% of Mac Pro users never used those PCIe slots. They bought a Mac Pro because they need the Xeons and possibly the RAM or SSD.
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This...

I kinda expect the new Mac Pro to allow accelerator / compute cards, have some M.2 type expansion slots and possibly some kinda of memory expansion. If the Amiga could access 3 different types of ram the M2 Ultra chip should be able to do something for those which need the additional ram.
 
On the topic of the Mac Pro chip…

With the news the M2 extreme is off the table, what about Apple pulls a trick and gives us an M2 Ultra X. Much akin to the fancy iPad Pro chips of the past.

It could be an M2 Ultra, but beefed up a little compared to a “standard” M2 ultra. Maybe it would be clocked even higher (4Ghz) and have additional GPU and CPU cores, all within the same die but rather than two standard Max dies fused they use two special max dies fused that have a few extra goodies on package, as I believe there’s memory bandwidth enough there to accommodate a few extra cores.

M2 Ultra
24c (16p/8e) @ 3.68Ghz, 76GPU cores, 192GB RAM

M2 Ultra X
28c (20p/8e) @ 3.98Ghz, 96GPU cores, 256GB RAM

Pure speculation but this stuff is fun :) I’d assume the Ultra X would draw another 25-33% power but even so, would still be an efficient chipset in comparison to the competition.

And if Apple is willing to produce unique X and Z chips for iPad Pro and Apple TV, they can do the same for Mac.
 
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now i see it said:
Has anyone considered the possibility that every conceivable marketing strategy and engineering design for the next Mac Pro was worked out YEARS ago during endless product development meetings?

Does anyone really think that every question and worry and “idea” about the next Mac Pro hadn’t been figured out YEARS ago?
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Thank you. This.

They acknowledged the Mac Pro when they announced the studio. They have been working on it for a long time. John Ternus isn’t going to let the Apple “halo” Mac product be lacklustre.

Apple certainly isn’t sitting on forums reading all these ideas and speculations from members and making rapid changes to the chipset and architecture to accommodate any of our needs in the final hours of design and production.

I know for a fact (friends in high places) that they are years ahead of what’s publicly released. They have to be. Apple would have been testing 3nm chipsets over a 18 months ago and getting design specs Finalised for mass production of M3 and beyond.
 
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Like it or not Apple has a fundamental problem with what the public expects of a "Mac Pro", namely basic expansion of RAM, graphics, and storage. It's
part of the DNA of Apple silicon to put the memory and graphics right in the chip to allow for super fast interconnect. That's a big part of why the M series has been crushing it, but it fundamentally excludes the RAM and graphics chipset from being separate and therefore upgradable. I'm not sure what Apple can or will do about this, unless they decide to do something nutty and treat user upgradable RAM like local cache, with level 1, level 2, etc. I assume from my layperson POV that would require sone serious OS changes. And to do something similar with graphics chipsets? Not sure it's even possible. In the meantime, I have no idea how they'll differentiate a new Mac Pro from the Mac Studio other than maybe some locally upgradable storage, which would disappoint everyone if that's the only differentiator.
 
macduke said:
Apple does something cool with the Mac for the first time in ages and then they kill it? Sounds about right.

I'm pretty sure I wondered in the comments about this on one of those stories about the M2 Extreme being cancelled. Hope they bring this back.

I feel like at a minimum they could offer the M2 Max in the Mac Studio, right? Would still be a potent little desktop.
Click to expand...
OK so I DON'T retire my ancient Intel 2014 Mac mini? I can't add anything to it anyway (RAM) but HAVE swapped in a !TB SD from OWC.
 
Warped9 said:
If the Mac Studio is that good then focus on that Studio and forget the Mac Pro.
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What will a "Pro" do for me? I realize like studios need powerful systems and integration that the M series may not meet but the AppleVerse is adequate for millions of users and so there has to be a portal somewhere here.
 
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