Would such an adapter be included with the phone? if not, how much $$? Would the quality of the adapter DAC be better than what's in the phone now or worse? Even if Apple includes one for free and it's decent, it's still something else to take up space and potentiallylose.
Not my concern, since I have a pair of great Bluetooth headphones I love already, and will happily use Apple's free Lightning earbuds I get with my iPhone 7. But I"ll playa long: Of course Apple won't give it away for free. I would bet it's going to be around $19 as that's about the cost they increased the Lightning dock over the 30-pin dock. And of course it's going to be equal to or batter than the internal DAC (the one in the Lightning dock sounds better than my 5S). And aren't headphones themselves something else taking up space to potentially lose? I can't tell you how many sets of headphones I've lost over the years. And if you use your headphones exclusively with Apple gear, you never have to take the adapter off. But how about a built-in clip that keeps it tied to the cord in the event you do have to plug it into non-Apple, or legacy gear?
Just because something may be redundant isn't reason to leave it off. The phone has cell communication, wifi, and bluetooth, so arguably isn't lightning redundant hardware that could be left off (with wireless charging instead)? Heck, you can use either a bluetooth headset or a lightning wired one, why not leave off the speaker and mic? Why not leave the flash off the phone since you could get an external one connected to the lightning port?
Redundancy is a cause when space is at a premium. I thought that was understood given the reason stated for the 3.5mm jack removal in the first place. You state internal component configurations like you know what's involved in wireless charging. My understanding is that it is slow and not very energy efficient. But even the Watch has a physical data/charging connector built-in, even though Apple doesn't intend it to be used, if just for emergencies. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. What I do know is that the 3.5mm jack takes up measurable space, and is also redundant. And the reason why you don't leave off the speaker and mic is because the majority of users need them to interact with the phone when they don't have their headphones. If you could prove the majority of iPhone users wear headphones the majority of the time they are using their phones, you might have a case. But I seriously doubt you could demonstrate that. And leaving the flash off means compromising the quality of Apple's image system. Plus adding to the overall size of the device where no other accessory is in use.
Speculation. It's certainly a possibility they go either way, I suspect if they included one free with the phone it would be worse, if not it could be better than what's in the phone but fairly expensive.
They won't. And why would you suspect Apple would produce something worse for customers to criticize? Especially when they haven't taken that route with the Lightning dock. That's some serious pessimism right there.
And with a switch to lightning, third party headphones and other peripherals have gone from industry standard to "unauthorized". Yeah, that's an improvement.
I don't have an issue with it. I like Lightning. I also like knowing that a third party accessory is built to a guaranteed standard. When I order a cheap one off Amazon, I know what I'm getting and won't be disappointed if it fails.
Adapters aren't that big a deal. All adapters and headphones needing to have their own DAC is the big deal. And a traditional adapter isn't going to change the sound quality at all, in this new situation the "adapter" is actually doing the D to A conversion, one of the most important parts of the signal chain.
That's right, and now the consumer using a legacy set of headphones has the option to chose the level of quality they find acceptable. It's win win.
That didn't answer his question. You'd like the extra space, but he's right, you don't need to remove anything to use outboard DAC. Debatable that it "it takes up a lot of internal space", particularly since if it's removed many users are going to want a second lightning port which will take up most of the space that was saved. Ditto on the "likely better", we've covered that already.
Apple would like the extra space. The DAC is the least of the space issues, it's that 3.5mm jack that is the problem and why Apple wants to get rid of it. Many users would like a 2nd USB-C port on their MacBooks, but they aren't likely to get it anytime soon, and Apple seems to be selling a lot of them despite this flaw. The whole point of getting rid of the 3.5mm jack is to simplify, streamline, and reclaim space. The iPhone will still need an internal DAC for the speaker, so it's not going to likely reduce much space at all, though they will be able to put a less expensive one in there since the internal speakers it drives don't require very high quality.
If Apple includes an adapter with the phone, or lightning headphones it's a wash on cost (unless they go with a worse DAC). Maybe even higher for them. And if there's a significant cost to the DAC, then if Apple doesn't include it, it's going to be fairly expensive.
They won't. $19 bucks for the adapter for at least identical quality as to what they sell now. It will be a blip on the consumer's expenses, considering the alternative is to spend another $200+ to buy new headphones.
I thought you were arguing that improved sound is a good thing? Make up your mind.
The discussion is all over the place trying to defend the 3.5mm jack. As I've agreed the connector itself will produce just as high quality audio as the Lightning connector would -- if Lightning were passing analogue audio. But it's not. The issue is with being able to produce a higher quality analogue signal from the digital information output by the Lighting connector vs. the iPhone built-in DAC. And given the right external DAC it can. I also conceded it can be worse. Moreover, the internal iPhone DAC can produce worse analogue audio depending on what kind of sound files are played back. Neither has anything to do with the physical connector. In fact even on the cheapest DAC adapter, the 3.5mm jack will pass as high a quality signal as the iPhone's 3.5mm jack is capable. In the end it all depends on what the consumer is playing back, and what their subjective bar for quality is. Improved sound is a good thing if the consumer desires it. If they can't tell the difference between good sound and poor, then what difference does it make. But I won't accept an argument that says the internal DAC is superior to an external one, when the source material is streaming audio, or 128bit mp3s. And the same goes for the quality of the headphones plugged into it as well.
Why should people who don't use wifi pay for improved wifi?
Why should people who don't use bluetooth pay for improved bluetooth?
Why should people who don't have a carrier with faster cell speeds or certain frequencies pay for improved cell chips?
When I asked why should "I" pay for your 3.5mm jack, I did not mean me as an individual. I meant the majority of iPhone users. Again, do you think Apple would make this decision arbitrarily, or in a vacuum? No. I would argue Apple knows they have reached or passed the tipping point where the majority of customers don't use the 3.5mm jack. It's "you" I assert are in the minority as an Apple customer. Am I right? Who knows? But I do know that the majority of customers benefit from improved wifi, and bluetooth, and I would argue that Apple benefits from only building one iPhone with all the chips built-in, rather than dozens more custom models for each carrier, so there's likely no additional cost passed on to the individual consumer. And even if there were, Apple would make you pay for it anyway, because it's easier on them. And I have no problem with that one. In the case of the 3.5mm jack, it would be easier to remove it, regardless of how useful it is. Bottom line, Apple is not a charity, sometimes they need to do what's best for them.
Except that it's not a simple dongle, it will be bigger and more expensive since it needs to house a DAC. And don't forget that it's powered, unlike traditional headphones or adapters, meaning it may draw more power and negate that tiny gain in battery life that came from the tiny space savings.
You are conflating your understanding of the current state of marketed technology with what will be possible in the future. For starters, why couldn't a DAC be miniaturized to fit into a simple dongle? After all, the Watch wouldn't have been possible 3 years ago. As far as the power issue, I'm at a loss as to how an external DAC draws any more power than an internal one, and that's what we're talking about. Considering how big an issue power is for Apple's devices in general, why on earth would they ever allow an external DAC to draw more power than the built-in one? The short answer is -- they wouldn't. And who says the space savings is for battery extra life anyway? They may need it for a new component like the topic engine they just added. Besides, you seem oblivious to the fact that Apple added a whole bunch of new always on power draws to the iPhone 6S while reducing the capacity of the batter, boosting the processor performance, and keeping the battery life the same. I guess you'd say that were impossible if you assumed they only had last years technology to work with. But fortunately technology doesn't work that way.
I'm not sure what gives you the idea that most of their customers only use Apple products. Headphones and the 3.5 jack in general are an industry standard. You honestly are asking why would apple bother supporting that? And what's this increased cost you mention?
I'm not asserting anything. I'm speculating that if this happens that may be a condition from their market research that allows them to remove the 3.5mm jack. And there's no need to go into the blasphemy of challenging an industry standard, Apple has done it decade after decade. The 3.5mm jack has a cost associated with it, no matter how small, and they likely get an amazing bulk discount. But when they're selling hundreds of millions of products, those few pennies, or even fractions thereof add up to a lot. Why should Apple spend the money to provide support for competitors, if research shows that most of their customers are wireless, or using predominantly Apple products with their headphones?
You think people only listen to that low format? Especially when the iTunes store stopped selling 128 AAC back in 2007? And bluetooth requires charging the headphones as well as being more of a battery drain for the phone (so much for that 1% larger battery).
I think most people don't know the difference or care. I could care less what Apple sells at iTunes, do you really think most of Apple's customers buy 100% of their music through iTunes? And even if they did, the latest version of iTunes running under El Capitan offers the option right on the Summary page to "Convert higher bit rate songs to '128 kbps' AAC". And I don't just stick 128 in there arbitrarily, that's the Apple DEFAULT! As soon as a consumer hits the limits of their 16GB entry level iPhone, and aren't able to add new music, they're likely going to start reducing the size of those music files, if they haven't already.
You know what else requires charging the battery? The Watch. My iPad, my MacBook. My wireless keyboard, my wireless mouse, and half a dozen other things I use daily. People who are already charging things daily aren't going to balk at one more thing, especially if that thing makes their lives easier in some way. I lovely bluetooth headphones for the cord free reality they give me. I know the sound quality isn't as high as I could get on a pair of wired headphones, much less the sound quality of an high-end outboard DAC with a set of premium headphones. But those are the compromises we all make. So I remember to charge them. As far as the power expenditure from the iPhone for bluetooth, many people use their bluetooth radios all day anyway, for AirDrop, CarPlay, handsfree devices, hand-off, Watch, etc. And somehow despite all of these additional power drains Apple adds every new generation, the battery life remains amazingly consistent. Bottom line, Apple would not do this given their constant issues with power management, without mitigating any exacerbation of battery drain by wireless headphones somewhat. And some were complaining about being able to charge their iPhones and use a Lightning connector. That's obviously not an issue of any kind while using bluetooth headphones.
As already discussed, "lightning headphones" is meaningless in regard to quality. They could be an improvement, they could be worse. You can get a big improvement in sound quality before you reach the point where you need to upgrade to an external DAC.
The same is true for wired headphones with 3.5mm connectors. Buyer beware.
You really think that would be more expensive than having to put DAC in the headphones included with the phone (unless that DAC is the cheapest, nastiest one they can find)?
I think over the hundreds of millions of products Apple sells with a built-in DAC, those pennies will add up to a substantial amount. Especially when they can charge more to build an external adapter.
I doubt it would cause a tidal wave of switching, but it certainly wouldn't help bring users over or keep people who are already consider a switch. And it's a potential reason for users to skip a generation and wait for the next. Who knows what would happen, but it's hard to imagine that no phone jack/tiny bit thinner is a net positive for the average consumer.
Like I stated, Apple won't do this without doing their research. But I seriously doubt the lack of a 3.5mm jack is going to deter the majority of potential customers from buying Apple.
So now a drop in quality is a possibility, and you're defending that. Gee, I'm glad we switched to a newer, more obscure connector just to get worse quality.
Billions of people are already living with varying degrees of audio quality, primarily from their source, but also largely due to the quality of their hardware. Nothing will change in that regard by eliminating the 3.5mm jack. I've been acknowledging that all along. Nothing surprising here. There won't be a drop in quality as far as Apple is concerned, nor any of their MiFi licensors. Again, buyer beware.
