Way too many interesting podcasts to listen to in the world to waste time with music. How empty-headed.
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Apple Meets With Podcasters to Hear Wide-Ranging Community Grievances
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Go visit the library one time and read a book instead. How dim-witted.Way too many interesting podcasts to listen to in the world to waste time with music. How empty-headed.
Go to the local artisan cafe and listen to a live performer instead. How vapid.Go visit the library one time and read a book instead. How dim-witted.
I think Apple should stay away from advertising as far as possible. I fear it will breed the wrong set of incentives for Apple (extra revenue at the expense of privacy and the end user experience).
That said, I think I can see why podcasts has been neglected for so long. It earns Apple absolutely zero profit, and I am not sure if there is any correlation between podcasting and improved sales of iOS devices.
You might be right. If there's anybody you'd want telling you what's wrong with something, it's Siracusa. He has an amazing talent for it!
I am the opposite. I listen primarily to podcasts (average 1-2 hours a day) and only to music very infrequently.
The part that's surprised me during my own (short) podcasting stint was how obtuse it was to make and publish a podcast. Apple really missed an opportunity where they could have made something completely turnkey.
Think about it: Apple makes GarageBand (so that's creation sorted). They also sell iCloud storage (so that could cover hosting). They make iTunes and Podcast apps (publishing, distribution, discovery)...
They could literally have put a button in GarageBand that says publish to iTunes and everyone in the world could subscribe to what you have to say. Nothing could be more "it just works" than that. Heck, put in an advanced settings for anyone who wants more control over their hosting, RSS, and whatever.
Think about it: Apple makes GarageBand (so that's creation sorted). They also sell iCloud storage (so that could cover hosting). They make iTunes and Podcast apps (publishing, distribution, discovery)...
They could literally have put a button in GarageBand that says publish to iTunes and everyone in the world could subscribe to what you have to say. Nothing could be more "it just works" than that. Heck, put in an advanced settings for anyone who wants more control over their hosting, RSS, and whatever.
Rather than just suckle the PR spin on this, let's look at what's actually happening in podcasts.
Apple customers have abandoned iTunes and the Podcasts app. They are too complex, too bug prone and downright hostile to any one who wants to use them, particularly if they want them to communicate with each other.
Customers are no longer using Apple products to access podcasts, which is only one step from not needing Apple devices to access podcasts either. N.B. Spotify and Google moving to encompass podcasts. Hopeless at the moment, but they know something we don't know. Read on…
All Apple is left doing is providing a central iTunes repository, which I'll bet is under pressure to be DROPPED.
Naturally the *new Apple* has no clue that they've driven podcast customers away with years of outright hostility to the technology, delivering increasingly complex and broken apps and syncing (particularly with any attempt to keep an iTunes library on a computer).
And the *new Apple* response is likely that Apple is actually looking at DROPPING podcasts altogether… UNLESS they can MONETISE podcasts. HENCE the incomprehensibility of trumpeting that Apple is 'listening' and 'hears' that podcasters' main wish is to monetise their podcasts.
Any wonder the PR spin leaves the vast majority of podcast consumers scratching their heads about what's going on here. Wake up people! Podcasts are either going away or being turned into something podcast customers will reject outright.
This is the end of podcasts and Apple is as clueless about this, as it is bragging about how few bugs its software has.
Customer loyalty is earned by good products that work so well that customers wouldn't even consider looking to another supplier. The *new Apple* believes it only has to be better than its rivals, and how small that gap is, is an indicator of how "cleverly" the company can run.
The long slow demise of Apple that its most ardent supporters have been warning about for YEARS now, continues unabated.
Another thought around podcast discovery:
I think Apple actually found a great solution in Apple Music and Beats1 that could help with their discoverability across Podcasts and the App Stores. The problem is the same: there is an abundance of content and no one knows which to get. Surfacing the best content makes the services more valuable to me.
With Beats1, you have these celebrity DJs surfacing tracks and artists you may never have listened to. Having almost the entire world's catalogue of music is somewhat wasted if you're just listening to the same old music from your glory days. Zane Lowe is a superstar from BBC Radio. I was a huge fan of Ebro Darden from his Hot 97 station in New York before he came to AppleMusic and I've warmed up to Julie Adenuga quickly and think she's great (I wasn't familiar with her before beats1). Whether you like the music they play is irrelevant to the larger point — trusted celebrity experts do the curation. The fact that they are trusted personalities adds gravitas to their recommendations.
Apple takes a half-step towards this with stuff like "podcasts we're loving" or "our favourite games" (in Podcasts and App stores respectively), but who the heck is "we"? It's worth thinking about who people would trust, know, and would do a great job of curation. Well known game website editors from Kotaku and IGN should tell me what games are awesome. I'm a fan of Dan Krupa and if he thinks a game is great, I'll give it a go. Maybe there are productivity gurus like Tony Robbins or Tim Ferris who could keep me informed of the best apps. Bring in the best spoken word folks like Ira Glass or whoever to tell me which podcasts are worth listening to. Celebrate and promote your curators so that they can celebrate and promote your content.
I heard someone say that sites start with curation until they get too big and then they get search. When the search index becomes to large, it's once again time to use curation.
I think Apple actually found a great solution in Apple Music and Beats1 that could help with their discoverability across Podcasts and the App Stores. The problem is the same: there is an abundance of content and no one knows which to get. Surfacing the best content makes the services more valuable to me.
With Beats1, you have these celebrity DJs surfacing tracks and artists you may never have listened to. Having almost the entire world's catalogue of music is somewhat wasted if you're just listening to the same old music from your glory days. Zane Lowe is a superstar from BBC Radio. I was a huge fan of Ebro Darden from his Hot 97 station in New York before he came to AppleMusic and I've warmed up to Julie Adenuga quickly and think she's great (I wasn't familiar with her before beats1). Whether you like the music they play is irrelevant to the larger point — trusted celebrity experts do the curation. The fact that they are trusted personalities adds gravitas to their recommendations.
Apple takes a half-step towards this with stuff like "podcasts we're loving" or "our favourite games" (in Podcasts and App stores respectively), but who the heck is "we"? It's worth thinking about who people would trust, know, and would do a great job of curation. Well known game website editors from Kotaku and IGN should tell me what games are awesome. I'm a fan of Dan Krupa and if he thinks a game is great, I'll give it a go. Maybe there are productivity gurus like Tony Robbins or Tim Ferris who could keep me informed of the best apps. Bring in the best spoken word folks like Ira Glass or whoever to tell me which podcasts are worth listening to. Celebrate and promote your curators so that they can celebrate and promote your content.
I heard someone say that sites start with curation until they get too big and then they get search. When the search index becomes to large, it's once again time to use curation.
Apple is bureaucratic. They could have made podcasts the first mass market PPV decades ago. Apple is bureaucratic. When they get feedback to solve it they do not latch on to the business opportunity. Apple is bureaucratic.
What did I just say?
What did I just say?
Where do you get all this? I have a weekly podcast that I produce with some buddies and a majority of our listens come from iTunes and iOS devices. Unless we're some kind of anomaly, people are most certainly still using Apple products to access podcasts.
I personally see no evidence for that in my podcast stats.
You forgot the part where the sky is falling. Sheesh. Lighten up, Francis. And next time you go off on a rant like this, link to some sources online to back up a few of these assumptions of yours. Because most of them are suspect or demonstrably wrong. As a podcaster, my only gripe is that Apple doesn't highlight podcasts nearly enough in iTunes. It's hidden away and you have to go out of your way to find it. And that's a minor gripe really. Our listenership continues to grow regardless and most of that growth is coming from iOS and iTunes.
Apple doesn't want to monetize podcasts by putting ads in. Podcasters themselves are asking Apple for more ways to access data about aggregate listeners so they can put ads in themselves, and find ways to keep their shows going. Many do it by recording ads like Radio personalities do. Some give special feeds that are donator only. Some have Pateron or other benefits but don't do seperate shows. No one is asking for pay-for-stream podcasts. A lot of podcasters right now have to do user surveys - and as we know they're not very reliable, meaning the price they can charge for their ads/Patreon levels/ect is much lower.
Apple can create a lot of good will with this group of creators. I'm sure they'd pay for those statistics, and Apple can provide them safely.
Apple can create a lot of good will with this group of creators. I'm sure they'd pay for those statistics, and Apple can provide them safely.
Apple under Jobs didn't seem to worry about that so much, they charted their own course. I get they need to add features, but features without a stable core are kind of useless. Before iOS 8, I used my iPad a *lot*. After iOS 8, I seldom use it anymore. Sure, I probably need a new one to get some speed back (iOS 8 slowed it so much even typing was choppy. The whole user experience was a turn-off), but that hasn't been the only problem.
While there have been many great features and useful advancements, the whole of it is a lot more sloppy.
That's another one I just don't get. Maybe I will someday, but right now it just seems like a distraction... a solution looking for a problem.
I sure hope so, but IMO, they are heading back to the mid-90s in terms of management and thinking.
A couple of things though. While we don't know who the 7 are, most of the few top-most podcasts aren't representative of mainstream podcasts. They are shows by old-time media giants or celebrities who have recently jumped into podcasting. So, hopefully Apple doesn't see them as mainstream just because they have recent big numbers.
And, I'm not sure I agree about podcast survival. I'm *VERY* happy Apple did what they did for that early boost. But, podcasting is as natural of a progression as Netflix, YouTube, blogging, etc. It's path just would have looked different, but there's no way it wouldn't survive.
No, I meant that flat is more conducive to things like responsive design. But, that doesn't have to mean bad UI/UX, which unfortunately, has been the case with a good amount of the move to flat.
On mobile especially, there aren't hover-tool-tips, so you have to press whatever it is and see what it does (delete something? oops. Send xyz to social media? oops. And, a lot of the icons (because words don't often fit) aren't very telling as to what they are, especially in their 'flat' black-and-white versions. And, it's hard to tell the state of things. It's harder to find the right button when color has been removed, making all the buttons more the same. Or, if they just use words or text, you have to figure out what words are buttons, which aren't, etc.
It's a pretty bad UX move, actually.
UX experts seem to disagree. This flies in the face of everything Apple learned that made the Mac great. The whole thing about the Mac is that it made computers experiment friendly. Flat on mobile isn't experiment friendly.
I'm not understanding. Podcasts are a RSS feed with media 'enclosure' tags. The files, both the XML RSS feed and media files can be hosted just about anywhere. If you do it right, you're not tied to the success of anyone but yourself. If more companies enter the game trying to make proprietary systems for Whomever-casts, it's going to ruin the medium. And, it absolutely isn't that way currently unless you're silly enough to get tricked into one of the shady platforms because you didn't do any research.
Possibly. Short-term, maybe revenue is up. But, if he's doing long-term damage, then eventually that will come back to haunt Apple.
These are the smart brands, though! They came out of, seemingly, nowhere and now compete with brands that owned the market for decades. They realize that buying a spot on the right podcast isn't the same thing as shot-gunning to some huge audience on a big radio program.
Yes, Apple's search is simply horrible. I've even had it not find a name I typed in exactly at times. And, it's super-simplistic, just going off the title and description, with seemingly a very simplistic type of search. And, yea, I often end up just doing a Google search and finding something that points me in to the app I'm looking for via a direct link into the App Store.
That's why I always think the New and Noteworthy stuff is a bit funny. Does anyone even look at that?
There are a couple more independent folks on the top who probably know what they are doing. But most of the top spots right now are traditional media folks who've jumped in recently, and for the most part, don't have a clue (about podcasting). Their success is due to bringing an audience with them. But, they are still thinking old-media when it comes to advertising, monetization, or what the strengths of podcasting are, and especially what's best for the podcast community as a whole.
They can't. That's not how podcasts work. For that to happen, Apple would have to make it proprietary, and control it all end to end. A few other companies are trying to do something like that (where they import podcasts into their system and inject ads), and so far, they've all pretty much failed.
They've pretty much ruined most of their apps anymore.
It's like someone hired a bunch of amateur programmers/designers and said... hey, we're just going to redesign these apps, so have at it. Oh, and don't bother to pay attention to everything Apple learned over the last several decades about UX/UI.
I used to mostly listen to music. But, since podcasts came along, that's pretty much reversed. Just too much interesting stuff to learn, that I hardly have time to follow the music scene anymore. I do enjoy music now and then though, and especially when I get to make it myself.
Amen! Once they get in that game, like Google, Facebook, etc. then *we* become the product. I'd rather Apple focus on making great products for me to buy. But, if Apple is being, now, run like a typical tech company, without Jobs there to say no, then they probably have all sorts of minions in departments thinking of ways to increase revenue... big picture be damned. So, we'll see.
Note: a big reason I buy iOS devices is to listen to podcasts. So, while hosting a podcast directory - not that big of a deal or expense for them in the big picture - isn't a *direct* money-maker, it is an indirect one. Hopefully the bean-counters can see that far. (I won't be holding my breath.)
No way in heck I'd trust my podcast to iCloud.
But, yes, I suppose they could do this. I'm kind of glad they haven't.I don't want one player to own podcasting! But, even if they did do this, the technical complexity pales in comparison to the actual work involved in producing good content. And, even then, to do it well, it wouldn't exactly be turn-key. You'd still have to get good quality audio in, and have you ever look at the code iWeb created? (i.e.: there'd still be the website aspect to do it right - which Apple is bad at - and having the right mic/equipment/technique.)
And as a customer, I thank them for it.
Podcasters can keep their grubby hands off my usage data.
I think it is because up to iOS 5, the iPhone was still objectively better than Android smartphones in terms of apps, performance, battery life, ease of use and smoothness. Android was better in terms of customisability but these advantages were largely lost on the consumer when they were having a hard enough time with jerky scrolling as is.
However, it soon became obvious that the competition was innovating and adding software features faster than Apple could innovate. The way I see it, Android smartphones were roughly at parity with iPhones at around the time the 4s. This was also about the time when it was clear that larger smartphones were the way moving forward. Apple was either too blind to see this, or they were already committed to the 4" iPhone 5 design for the next 2 years and didn't feel pressured to change.
To its credit, Apple managed to hold its ground with the 4" iPhone 5 and 5s (I know I had many friends and colleagues who defected to the Note 3 and Note 4 for the larger displays) before finally reclaiming it all back (and then some) with the iPhone 6 and 6+. Right now, if not for me being eyeballs-deep in the Apple ecosystem, I would probably be indifferent to owning either an iPhone or an Android flagship.
Revamping iOS really was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario, but the greater danger was not doing anything, IMO. Steve Job's Apple is all grown up now, and the Apple today is a lot larger, and the expectations on them is way higher. This is why you see them expanding their ecosystem a lot quicker. Apple Pay, Music Streaming, TV content, with rumours of self-driving cars and VR and who knows what. Hopefully, Apple can juggle both maintaining a stable core even as it seeks to add more functionality to its platform.
But I digress...
I can't natively control Podcasts through my Apple Watch. Shows how much Apple really cares about podcasts.
I agree with some of what you wrote, but this is just plain wrong. Apple products are nearly exclusively used, and the iTunes directory is where most find them and subscribe. That's probably why Google is finally getting in the game... they can't ignore podcasting any longer. But yes, this means Apple needs to step their game up!
That's all it has ever been... a directory. Repository isn't really the right word, as none of the podcasts 'live' at Apple. They'd be stupid to drop it, though I wouldn't put that past current management. However, it seems they are actually revamping it and putting effort into it.
Fortunately, Apple has little control over ending podcasts. If Apple went away tomorrow, yes, it would take a bit for new directories to take the place of iTunes (where people are currently used to looking), but every single podcast available now would still be available... people would just have to go through more steps to subscribe.
I'm with you on this one. Unfortunately, until the numbers start dramatically dropping, most people won't think there is anything wrong. I've been an Apple evangelist for almost 30 years, and this is the first time in their history I've actually been worried about their future.
I see what you're saying, but I think it would only work if they got the right people for each genre... and there are SO many of them with podcasting. And, then each genre is broken into so many niche areas.
The way discovery works in my case (I listen to over 50 podcasts... though the average is like 3, I think) is that I often hear about another podcast on one I already listen to. Discovery simply hasn't been an issue for me... I have a problem keeping up with all of them, and want to subscribe to more.
I don't think most come via iTunes app anymore, do they? But, you're right that it's too hidden on that interface. They probably search on mobile, or hear about you and look for you and subscribe.
re: growth - as Rob Walch from LibSyn says, "Everyone knows there is what they call “a discoverability issue” in podcasting, which there isn’t. ... All that matters is you have a good show and you’ve got good word of mouth marketing and your audience is telling your friends and if your audience is telling your friends, none of that other stuff matters."
Yea, but who knows what those 7 want? They may well want that, as they might not be very representative of podcasters.
Yup. Read Marco's post here: https://marco.org/2016/05/07/apple-role-in-podcasting
The New York times article is about as bad as this report.
This is about as stupid as the MacWorld meetings where Apple hosted "specialist" feedback. Basically, self-interested whining about what Apple can do for them.
Those that attended are pissed off that they can't just spend millions to control it. If they had their way, no one could start a podcast without a green light from a mega-company.
The New York times article is about as bad as this report.
This is about as stupid as the MacWorld meetings where Apple hosted "specialist" feedback. Basically, self-interested whining about what Apple can do for them.
Those that attended are pissed off that they can't just spend millions to control it. If they had their way, no one could start a podcast without a green light from a mega-company.
Apparently Apple added that 'feature' too.
Let's hope. But, Apple wasn't exactly tiny when Jobs was alive. Big company = stupid, as a rule. Apple needs to stay different to keep on top. I'm concerned that they've put the best bean counters, operations people, business executives, etc. in place (kind of like the Apple of the mid-90s)... but they lack that visionary with the guts to say 'no' to the typical tech industry 'wisdom.' And, this (podcasting move, if this article is accurate) could be a HUGE mistake in that direction... see below!
Oh my gosh! Can I give this 1000 likes?
Spot on! Everyone in this thread needs to go read this right away.And, IMO, this highlights what I've been noticing as the difference between the 'new' and 'old' Apple. The old Apple probably put podcasting in iTunes because it was something cool. It didn't have to be a top money maker, or the right size pie-slice at the corporate board meeting. Apple put it in and, has been mostly hands off. How this goes should be a good indicator of what the 'new' Apple is made of.
For anyone saying that Apple didn't put podcasting on the map, look at the name.
In what way does "podcast" make sense by any possible english definition except for a broadcast for iPods?
"Pod" wasn't a word associated with audio until Apple created the iPod.
In what way does "podcast" make sense by any possible english definition except for a broadcast for iPods?
"Pod" wasn't a word associated with audio until Apple created the iPod.
Ok, so here are some excerpts from the NYT article on which this one seems to be based:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/business/media/podcasts-surge-apple.html
Baloney! This has been shown to be wrong time and time again. Being featured in iTunes can give a temporary bump, but if that's what you're counting on, you may as well throw in the towel.
They would? Like who? The traditional media NPR folks?
You mean, kind of like traditional media, only way better? Traditional media just blasts out content to a supposed audience of some size, which it may or may not actually be, and judges engagement via small sample size surveys.
And, the only way to get that data is to collect it from the PLAYER APP, which means you'd have to get everyone using the Apple Podcast app, with the users being happy to provide that info. This has ZERO to do with podcasts in the iTunes store.
Why? The infrastructure is working just fine, and it's FAR better than if one company controlled that infrastructure.
Translation: 'Big media wants control of this now, and it's currently too free of a thing to get our mitts on.'
Again, baloney! The difference between a hit and a dud? Content, content, content!
And, what's the problem.... the playing field is too level because the 'big players' don't get special treatment? (sarcasm) Oh yea, that's a problem to be solved! (/sarcasm)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/business/media/podcasts-surge-apple.html
Baloney! This has been shown to be wrong time and time again. Being featured in iTunes can give a temporary bump, but if that's what you're counting on, you may as well throw in the towel.
They would? Like who? The traditional media NPR folks?
You mean, kind of like traditional media, only way better? Traditional media just blasts out content to a supposed audience of some size, which it may or may not actually be, and judges engagement via small sample size surveys.
And, the only way to get that data is to collect it from the PLAYER APP, which means you'd have to get everyone using the Apple Podcast app, with the users being happy to provide that info. This has ZERO to do with podcasts in the iTunes store.
Why? The infrastructure is working just fine, and it's FAR better than if one company controlled that infrastructure.
Translation: 'Big media wants control of this now, and it's currently too free of a thing to get our mitts on.'
Again, baloney! The difference between a hit and a dud? Content, content, content!
And, what's the problem.... the playing field is too level because the 'big players' don't get special treatment? (sarcasm) Oh yea, that's a problem to be solved! (/sarcasm)
Correct.
But now you don't need Apple... or Apple devices... to create, distribute, and consume podcasts
As others have posted above everyone should read Marco's post on this, https://marco.org/2016/05/07/apple-role-in-podcasting
This looks like it's about nothing more than large media companies trying to exert control over the medium. Whatever the shortcomings of the app or the ecosystem, it's still about as democratic as a system as we can have, with no one in overall control of it. We should be very careful about letting go of that.
This looks like it's about nothing more than large media companies trying to exert control over the medium. Whatever the shortcomings of the app or the ecosystem, it's still about as democratic as a system as we can have, with no one in overall control of it. We should be very careful about letting go of that.
Are you suggesting that Apple have taken an existing product, made it shiny then passed it off as their own new thing. Heaven forbid!!