Apple, Microsoft on Windows on Mac; Benchmarks

[hulugu]

I haven't used an antivirus program in 9 years now and in those nine years I've gotten exactly one virus (Blaster). I would say that the virus threat is somewhat overexaggerated. It's all about common sense really.

And, beore you ask, I run online scans every few months just in case. Nothing so far.

Wouldn't that be an antivirus program?

 

[Mikael]

So then what about aunts and grandmas that also get viruses? Are they downloading illegal software and looking at porn too?

Still just making excuses based on your own experiences, which seem a far cry from what appears to be a majority of PC users.

Well, what do you want me to say? I didn't say that other people weren't having problems! I wrote about my personal experience and how I have avoided getting problems. I'm not making excuses, since I already told you that I don't think that Windows is by any means a secure OS. I hate to ask you this, but do you have a problem comprehending what I'm writing? What kind of excuses is it you think I'm making? I haven't said that Windows is great, so it can't be that.

Also, as for the reason why I don't get viruses but the aunts and grandmas do: I don't know why, really. Ask them instead. Maybe they're downloading strange e-mail attachment because they don't know better? You've already gotten my theory on why I don't get viruses and that's the best I can do.

Wouldn't that be an antivirus program?

Yeah, yeah. Point is that I'm not running any memory resident scanner or have any scanner installed and that I haven't gotten any virus other than Blaster in the past decade.

What the heck is this? Attack of the thick-headed Mac-zealots? Honestly, guys, you're making fools out of yourselves.

 

[dwd3885]

it's amazing how a lot of you are now like, "Windows isn't that bad," just as long as you can manage the spyware, etc. This ploy will backfire for Apple. Longtime apple users will find the possibility to run Windows and they'll like it! Snappier, faster, it will end up making people switch to Microsoft!

It's funny how people can turn so quickly on one single issue. Complete 180s I've seen right here in the past few days.

Why would Mac users need Windows now? They haven't for years, now all of a sudden you can put Windows on your Mac and it's Heaven! And those who bad mouthed Windows for years now say it's not all that bad.

You people: lol

 

[dpaanlka]

Wouldn't that be an antivirus program?

Yeah, yeah. Point is that I'm not running any memory resident scanner or have any scanner installed and that I haven't gotten any virus other than Blaster in the past decade.

What the heck, I didn't say that! (???)

No, it's the attack of the real Mac people annoyed by the *other* people thinking Windows XP on a Mac is the greatest thing since the Mac was invented.

 

[dpaanlka]

dwd3885: couldn't have said it better myself

i still look at windows with disgust, thank you very much

 

[Mikael]

What the heck, I didn't say that! (???)

Sorry about that. Fixed now.

No, it's the attack of the real Mac people annoyed by the *other* people thinking Windows XP on a Mac is the greatest thing since the Mac was invented.

If you're annoyed with me about that, you're wasting your breath. Being able to use Windows is nice if you need to run software that is only available on Windows, but other than that it's pretty pointless.

 

[dpaanlka]

If you're annoyed with me about that, you're wasting your breath. Being able to use Windows is nice if you need to run software that is only available on Windows, but other than that it's pretty pointless.

Well, perhaps not you specifically, but there are other people on the internet that seem like they're going to switch back to Windows XP now that it can run on Mac hardware.

 

[hulugu]

Yeah, yeah. Point is that I'm not running any memory resident scanner or have any scanner installed and that I haven't gotten any virus other than Blaster in the past decade.

What the heck is this? Attack of the thick-headed Mac-zealots? Honestly, guys, you're making fools out of yourselves.

Maybe, but it is also and important thing to think about. Protecting Windows requires not only some knowledge about firewalls, it also requires a fear of the internet: don't go to dodgy sites; avoid p2p; be very careful about email and attachments sent via AIM; run AV, Spybot, etc.
And, that doesn't necessarily protect you against something like SmithFraud or the Sony Rootkit.
Protecting Windows requires work, and much of this is esoteric enough that most users just simply fail at it. That is a serious problem that can't be explained away by, well it never happened to me.

 

[Mikael]

Maybe, but it is also and important thing to think about. Protecting Windows requires not only some knowledge about firewalls, it also requires a fear of the internet: don't go to dodgy sites; avoid p2p; be very careful about email and attachments sent via AIM; run AV, Spybot, etc.
And, that doesn't necessarily protect you against something like SmithFraud or the Sony Rootkit.
Protecting Windows requires work, and much of this is esoteric enough that most users just simply fail at it. That is a serious problem that can't be explained away by, well it never happened to me.

I agree. It would certainly make my life easier if all my friends used Macs. As you may have understood by now, I don't mind using Windows, but my friends can't handle it very well (which is of course, in the end, is Windows' fault). The problem is usually a massive spyware attack from having pretty much visited every damn pornsite on the 'net... I'd say that spyware is a much larger problem than viruses, judging by what I see when I'm fixing computers.

 

[Detlev]

Oy! We need to start a club or something for those of us who are purists. Then we can poke fun at the others and have secret handshakes and stuff. So, what are we going to call it? It's gotta have a good acronym.

 

[dwd3885]

Oy! We need to start a club or something for those of us who are purists. Then we can poke fun at the others and have secret handshakes and stuff. So, what are we going to call it? It's gotta have a good acronym.

that's a great idea

 

[g.x]

Anybody that uses Windows and says "I don't have any anti-virus protection and I've never had a virus" is clearly either lying, or not using their computer a whole lot.

...or isn't aware of what they might have.

Just take a walk through any college dorm hall and like 90% of the student PCs have viruses or malware of some sort.

You can see all that from the hallway? I shudder to think of what you see when you enter the rooms.

 

[g.x]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Comparing XP to OS X 10.4 while ligit is not really fair.

Yep. Exactly. Remember the original X? OS X 10.1? Finder browsing sucked, no SMB, buggy, slow, beachballs, had to Force Quit relatively often.

Yes, they fixed many things with 10.2...for $130.

 

[g.x]

There's no such thing as "Monopoly on multi-OS computer." There's only a monopoly on "computers". Which is what microsoft has.

You couldn't be more wrong. The point is that competition is whatever a court says it is. A "market" is whatever a court says it is.

In the early nineties, the "computer market" and the "music market" were two separate, distinct markets. You probably would have argued that there is no such thing as the computer music market.

Time change, opinions change and the intepretations of laws change.

Antitrust laws are part of a larger strategy of encouraging competition in the marketplace...ultimately, to benefit consumers. While AAPL's decision to not license OS X to other machines may have a good business reason (integration, quality control, etc.), that doesn't mean it's good for the consumers in the market. It may be good for consumers of OSes...but it is not good for consumers of hardware.

And if judge decides to look at it that way, then there very well be something as silly as a "Monopoly on a multi-OS computer."

Like I said, the "market" in this case is whatever the judge says it is.

 

[g.x]

See my post above. There's no alcohol involved, no luck and not even magic. Just a little bit of common sense. Wonderful, no?

...along with a side order of smugness and a shot of complacency, apparently.

- Never inserted a disc, huh?
- Never used a friend's flash drive?
- Never noticed in the Wall Street Journal that perfectly "reputable" websites get hacked into from time to time, rendering your "safe surfing" experience a little more dangerous than you thought it was?
- Never used a laptop at a free hotspot and therefore had your IP traffic passed through an unknown router?
- Never noticed that some of java- and flash-based ads on "reputable" websites come from hosting company contracts and not the site owner?

 

[Demoman]

You are right

Don't forget how old XP is. When Vista comes out I bet the tables will turn dramatically.

Then it will be Leopard woopin' on Vista. For the amount of effort being put into Vista, with it's numerous delays and with MS's history of rolling out new OS's, I wonder if Vista is going to be a hit, or a belly flop.

Good releases from MS.

DOS 2.1 - finally got a decent workable OS
DOS 3.3 - solved many issues
DOS 5.0 - the best release to date
Windows 3.1 - rescued everyone from the disastrous 3.0 version
Windows 2000 Pro - (really NT 5) the last decent OS they have made

With their history, they do not have much of a track record for getting it right early on. For those folk required to work in the MS world, I hope Vista finally throws off the moronic design paradigm that has plagued Windows since Windows 95.

 

[hulugu]

I agree. It would certainly make my life easier if all my friends used Macs. As you may have understood by now, I don't mind using Windows, but my friends can't handle it very well (which is of course, in the end, is Windows' fault). The problem is usually a massive spyware attack from having pretty much visited every damn pornsite on the 'net... I'd say that spyware is a much larger problem than viruses, judging by what I see when I'm fixing computers.

I have to agree, I've been working with a small real estate business and their computers were totally hosed with spyware. It gets even better, after removing this spyware I found the registries on a number of machines just shot full of holes which would create odd and intermitent problems until I just reformatted the hard-drives and restored from back-ups.
And that's not to mention SmithFraud which completely took over one of the laptops.
It's been said that if OSX reaches critical mass these problems will surface there as well, but that's a future problem and right now my clients need to work so they can get paid and Windows is hindering that goal.

All in all, I don't think dual-booting is all that useful, I'd rather Windows become an application sandboxed from the rest of the system ala' VPC. Of course, this would render Windows an application rather than an OS, which would also be great.

 

[milo]

You couldn't be more wrong. The point is that competition is whatever a court says it is. A "market" is whatever a court says it is.

Sure. But a court would never call that a market. And even if they did, Apple doesn't have a monopoly on "multi OS computer", since you can dual boot windows and linux on a peecee. The only "monopoly" apple has is running the apple OS (which is pretty much the *opposite* of a monopoly in the OS market). And that's like saying the coca cola company has a monopoly on coca cola.

I'd rather Windows become an application sandboxed from the rest of the system ala' VPC. Of course, this would render Windows an application rather than an OS, which would also be great.

Yeah, it's a shame there isn't an app available that does exactly that.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Well I know it hurts some of the Mac Fanboys here to think this and/or you'll continue in some alternate reality but Microsuck certainly DOESN'T mind being able to run XPee on the Mac... why would they? When they have to bundle XPee on a Dull, Hewsh|t Packturd, Chumpac, Hateway, they only get about $50 per license. If someone has to actually buy their OS, they make $100-150 per sale of XPee. Microsuck, bottom line, is a business, and as such they like making money. To sell copies of their craptacularly woeful OS at retail price to them is a good thing... it's more profit, and like any company more profit is a great thing. It's the other peecee makers listed above that wont be congratulating Apple, after all, they're the ones that may lose a sale, if a switcher buys a Mac because now he/she can run both OSes that doens't hurt Microsuck any.

So that being said, those that may steal XPee as warez or whatever depriving M$ of more profit, I won't lose any sleep over that.

LOL!

CLASSIC!!!

 

[MacsRgr8]

I must say, your rabid fanboyness and pure hatred of anything related to PC's and Windows still cracks me up . Now, that's not propably your intention, but you do offer me quite a bit of amusement. That said, I think you should really work on renewing your repertoire. It's getting a bit old.

Funny that over here in the MacRumors forums some Macfanboys can be found....

It seems that since this Apple switch to Intel followed by the possibility of running Windows on Mac, the door has been opened to some "new kind of thinking":
Windows bashing seems "old" now. Copy-cat styling of MicroSomething is not-so-bad now.

Over here we are Mac enthusiasts, and some loathe Windows. Some find it enjoyable to be able to play Windows games on their Mac. Some are happy they can use some pro-apps previously only available on PeeCees.
So. you'll find many different opinions about Boot Camp.

Bottom line is most (if not all) of us still believe Mac OS to be superior to Windows. We believe Apple is an innovator and Steve is the visionary leader.

If you want to argue against all Mac fanboynesses over here, you'll never get any sleep.

 

[duhliterate]

it's amazing how a lot of you are now like, "Windows isn't that bad," just as long as you can manage the spyware, etc. This ploy will backfire for Apple. Longtime apple users will find the possibility to run Windows and they'll like it! Snappier, faster, it will end up making people switch to Microsoft!

It's funny how people can turn so quickly on one single issue. Complete 180s I've seen right here in the past few days.

Why would Mac users need Windows now? They haven't for years, now all of a sudden you can put Windows on your Mac and it's Heaven! And those who bad mouthed Windows for years now say it's not all that bad.

You people: lol

my thoughts exactly. i have a mac...i have no need for windows.

 

[milo]

This ploy will backfire for Apple. Longtime apple users will find the possibility to run Windows and they'll like it!

Like it? Doubt it.

 

[MacsRgr8]

What the heck is this? Attack of the thick-headed Mac-zealots? Honestly, guys, you're making fools out of yourselves.

Eh... any particular reason you ended up here in the MacRumors forum...?

 

[JGowan]

It's funny how people can turn so quickly on one single issue. Complete 180s I've seen right here in the past few days.

Why would Mac users need Windows now? They haven't for years, now all of a sudden you can put Windows on your Mac and it's Heaven! And those who bad mouthed Windows for years now say it's not all that bad.

You people: lol

You don't get it. You lump everyone into the same little mould. The majority here are happy Mac users and we love the company that brings us the good computers, music players, etc.

When Apple gets something really right, it's a boost in MacCommunity morale. Apple's stock is high. Apple will most likely grow their user base, getting fence-sitters to come over. We feel very strongly that although we've been using a superior product, most of the world doesn't really understand what they're missing out on... typically because of money. PCs are generally perceived as cheaper.

Now, we see the possibility that people can actually have an easy way to try out the Mac and see what all of the crowing was about.

It's kind of like trying to explain to someone who rarely uses their 12:00-blinking VCR just how much better it would be for them to shell out for a TiVo. When they finally do, they see their TV Watching Experience open wide.

Those with TiVos (or ReplayTVs) know what I mean.

 

[Mikael]

...along with a side order of smugness and a shot of complacency, apparently.

Sorry. Side effect of being accused of lying. Should have been more careful with the sarcasm.

- Never inserted a disc, huh?
- Never used a friend's flash drive?
- Never noticed in the Wall Street Journal that perfectly "reputable" websites get hacked into from time to time, rendering your "safe surfing" experience a little more dangerous than you thought it was?
- Never used a laptop at a free hotspot and therefore had your IP traffic passed through an unknown router?
- Never noticed that some of java- and flash-based ads on "reputable" websites come from hosting company contracts and not the site owner?

Again, I don't think I said that using Windows without protection is perfectly safe. I'm not a complete newbie. I was just telling you about what's worked well for me. Having used my computers intensely for a decade without problems, I actually feel quite secure. Sure, one of the scenarios above might get me infected some day, but the past ten years have proven that to be somewhat unlikely. I'm not saying that my computer really IS secure (because it's not) nor am I saying that this is by any stretch an optimal "solution". Now that Windows can be run on the Mac, the optimal solution would probably be to switch completely. Then I could run programs like ModelSim and the occassional game on Windows and use OS X for the rest.

Eh... any particular reason you ended up here in the MacRumors forum...?

Yeah, I'm interested in Macs. Didn't know that "thickheaded" and "fanboy" were required attributes for have a pleasant stay and get along. God forbid that I like both Macs and PCs!