Apple Might Be Forced to Bring Fortnite Back to U.S. App Store

[spazzcat]

I paid for the hardware, software, and the gold plating on Tim Cook’s yacht by the astronomical prices of iPhones

You pay for a license to use the software based on the terms and conditions that you agreed to when you turned your phone on.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

I mean, I’d never want to do business with anyone who breeched a contract with me then sued, costing me hundreds of millions of dollars. The idea a judge can force Apple to do business with another company is a little frightening.

Lucky Qualcomm continues to do business with Apple after they did exactly that.

 

[jz0309]

Under the EU DMA allowing alternative app stores, Apple approved Epic’s Swedish account in early 2024, then terminated it, and then reversed the termination.

for the EU, not the US or other regions

 

[Cesar Battistini]

A private company being forced to accept or delete an app is against freedom of speech.

 

[surferfb]

The Judge made a judgement, not new legislation. The Judge therefor does not change rules, but applies them.

I know how our system works, it just seems odd that wasn't mentioned before now (and also, I would imagine, seems strange to Apple's lawyers, because I am pretty sure they wouldn't have told Apple to keep Epic off the store otherwise).

This is a dispute between corporations, not two individuals. I don't think, in any country, corporations are given personal identity. Therefor Apple as a corporation does not have a 'want'. It is also important to consider Apples market power over Apps distributed over iOS, and I can only consider the judge would find it disproportionate for Apple to block Epic permanently because of a legal dispute.

I'm aware, but I'm also on the leadership team of a (small) company. The idea that a judge could force us to do business with someone, who the same judge ruled, breached a contract (and owed us $3.6 million for that breach) that led to incredibly expensive litigation is a little frightening.

But as @account5 mentioned, the judge has clearly already made up her mind and Epic is going to be back in the store, unless Apple's injunction is ruled on favorably in the very near future.

 

[verdi1987]

for the EU, not the US or other regions

I’m aware. I was responding to your statement that “the ban from 2020 was for Epic and all its subsidiaries.”

 

[ToothBlueth]

I'm aware, but I'm also on the leadership team of a (small) company. The idea that a judge could force us to do business with someone, who the same judge ruled, breached a contract (and owed us $3.6 million for that breach) that led to incredibly expensive litigation is a little frightening.

I think you are forgetting that Apple holds access to the app market on iOS, that is quite a difference than just doing business, it is denying competition/access to a (large) market.

It is also a high profile case between one very large and the most valuable corporation in the world. One can't just ignore the circumstances of the case.

 

[sherwinzadeh]

It's possible Apple will want to avoid further court time and will approve Fortnite in the U.S

Lol... they're going to drag this out as far as they can...

 

[Bungaree.Chubbins]

That’s what Apple does actually forcing developers to publish apps on their store and then asking for a hefty fee for it.

And iOS development and maintenance doesn’t cost anything then?

 

[FrozenDarkness]

The reason that Apple must allow Epic back on is simple. Apple promised it would.

At trial, Apple announced would "gladly welcome Fornite back to iOS" whenever Fortnite complied with the App Store Guidelines. Tim Cook personally adopted and repeated this representation. And to avoid any doubt, Apple represented to the Court that Fornite was welcome back when compliant with App Store Guidelines, "even though Epic had breached [the contract]."

Once Apple won its case before the Court, Apple became bound by its representations under which Apple would restore Fornite to the App Store, even if Apple had the right to terminate Epic's developer account for breach of contract. The now binding representations from Apple's trial lawyers essentially forfeit Apple's practical ability to terminate Epic.

There will be no hearing. When a judge issues a show cause order requiring a high level executive to personally attend a contempt of court hearing, the court is announcing "the company will either comply or I will start arresting and jailing your executives." The decision has already been made.

I think people were too fast to declare that Apple emerged from the trial victorious. Appears that the small issue won by Epic may actually have been the most meaningful.

I would love to know more. I have never heard of a situation where anything said in court being a legally binding promise.

 

[surferfb]

I think you are forgetting that Apple holds access to the app market on iOS, that is quite a difference than just doing business, it is denying competition/access to a (large) market.

It is also a high profile case between one very large and the most valuable corporation in the world. One can't just ignore the circumstances of the case.

I'm not forgetting anything. In my opinion, the idea that a judge can force a business to do business with someone it doesn't want to, is a little frightening. If you don't find that scary, more power to you

 

[ToothBlueth]

I would love to know more. I have never heard of a situation where anything said in court being a legally binding promise.

Sounds like the principle of estoppel, I don't know if this is a principle of US law, though.

 

[kwl]

I paid for the hardware, software, and the gold plating on Tim Cook’s yacht by the astronomical prices of iPhones

You license the software chief.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

i will always maintain this judgement is still anti-consumer and potentially good for apple. The right consumer move would be waht EU did which is force iOS to open up to 3rd party app stores. That's real competition.

I don't care about competition on the payment platform if apple can play gatekeeper on who gets to be on the store.

 

[ToothBlueth]

I'm not forgetting anything. In my opinion, the idea that a judge can force a business to do business with someone it doesn't want to, is a little frightening. If you don't find that scary, more power to you

.. Apple holds access to the app market on iOS, that is quite a difference than just doing business..

There is not going to be a judge forcing you to do business with another one, if there is no legal case for it. This case is not of an ordinary magnitude.

 

[Bungaree.Chubbins]

I think you are forgetting that Apple holds access to the app market on iOS, that is quite a difference than just doing business, it is denying competition/access to a (large) market.

It is also a high profile case between one very large and the most valuable corporation in the world. One can't just ignore the circumstances of the case.

Are you saying that the iOS App Store is a universal entity independent from Apple, and that Apple should have little or no control over it?

 

[It’s always something]

Sounds like the principle of estoppel, I don't know if this is a principle of US law, though.

Estoppel is in fact a principle of US law also. I know from having been involved (not as a plaintiff or defendant) in a case that turned at least partially on estoppel.

 

[surferfb]

Cleary the most entertaining outcome will be Apple lets Fortnite back in, only for the Appeals court to grant Apple its injunction the next day, leading Apple to kick Epic out again.

 

[ToothBlueth]

Are you saying that the iOS App Store is a universal entity independent from Apple, and that Apple should have little or no control over it?

None of these I have claimed. Apple, however, has responsibilities as a gatekeeper to the app market on iOS. It most likely is not allowed to be discriminatory, or create unreasonable rules.

 

[macfacts]

Apple is not a monopoly. This is just getting ridiculous.

It’s their software and the courts do not reserve the right to freely dictate how a company operates.

If you want to make an argument, it’s maybe for the hardware you pay for - not the software you’re not.

Apple should hire you as their lawyer.

 

[jm22381]

If the rule Epic Games violated was found illegal, then wouldn't their ban from the App Store be equally illegal? Shouldn't the judge force them to return their developer accounts and compensate them for lost profits? Fortnite players spent around $495 million a year on in-app purchases for iOS. If it's been banned for five years, couldn't Apple be forced to pay Epic Games around $2.475 billion?

 

[verdi1987]

Are you saying that the iOS App Store is a universal entity independent from Apple, and that Apple should have little or no control over it?

He/she is saying that when you control a significant portion of the market you cannot engage in anti-competitive tactics.

 

[surferfb]

If the rule Epic Games violated was found illegal, then wouldn't their ban from the App Store be equally illegal? Shouldn't the judge force them to return their developer accounts and compensate them for lost profits? Fortnite players spent around $495 million a year on in-app purchases for iOS. If it's been banned for five years, couldn't Apple be forced to pay Epic Games around $2.475 billion?

In fact, the judge ruled that Epic owed Apple $3.6M for breaking the rules and Apple was within its rights to kick them out. Just apparently now that they have to let them back in.

 

[Arsenikdote]

All the gnards in here taking a steaming dump on sWeeney. I for one don’t care but enjoy Fortnite from time to time. Apple got played at their own game. You can only monopolize for so long until the environment catches up. Let this be a lesson to Apple and all the other giants out there, never too big to fail. It’s not a matter of if, but when.

If anything it is a lesson to keep doing exactly what Apple did. Not any amount of fines in the world would reverse the position Apple now has. Apple wins no matter what changes they are required to make going forward compared to the world in which they allowed things like external links to begin with.

 

[DocMultimedia]

I'm so tired of apple gatekeeping

Lol. Buy One, Droid, or that other thing I can't remember. Ditch iPhone if you want to. They are not the main phone provider, so you have many options.

I'm so tired of people that don't like Apple but continue to buy their products. 🤣