Apple, Motorola, Cingular, and iTunes Phone... Ready?

[jblodgett]

is because they see that, as much as they don't like it, that the mobile phone IS becoming the be all convergeance device... it's becoming what the PDA wanted to be. If they don't get in on these early product experiments young hipsters will start to purchse the sony ericsson walkman phone and the likes and the iPod itself will start to slip in marketshare. I could definitely see apple eventually creating some type of iPod/smartphone device. they are biding their time just like they did with MP3 players so they can see what this new "convergeance" craze brings, and then slap it with a beautiful product that instantly "get's it right" and own another product segment. Apple is essentially becoming a daytrader of sorts in the media device realm, as they realize that trends change and that those same trends are also tied to the latest technnology. It could work out quite nice for them.

But to me you're talking about two totally different products. The iPod and the cellular phone. They are not the same. I like my iPod because I can store 5000+ songs on it, and 5000+ pictures on it -- and that's what its good for. I like my cell phone because I can call people on it. Yes, I occasionally use my cell phone for its calendar abilities - but more often than not it's to call my office and see if my calendar is clear on _x_ date.

No iTunes based phone is ever going to be built with enough memory to hold more than a hundred or so songs -- otherwise you're talking about pricing out the shuffle or the cellular phone itself.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Yeah, there's a big difference in the cost model of replacing a cell phone in the US (where handsets are heavily subsidized by carriers) and other countries (where this is not true). If you are slightly patient, the RAZR can be had for free here (after rebates). Probably not true in Norway?

We already have subsidized phones in Norway, but you still have to pay for it in higher monthly fees or higher cost of making calls. I prefer to pay full prize for the phone and choose a carrier with MUCH lower prizes, that's much cheaper in the long run...

And even if I were to buy the RAZR subsidized, a quick search showed that I could get it for NOK 1200-1700 while it normally is about NOK 3100-3900, so it's still quite expensive at around half price, and as I specified earlier, I'm not really interested in much of the extras that the high end mobiles have...

My motorola V300 does all that. I think I paid $50-100 bucks for it being a long term T-Mobile customer.

As with the RAZR, this phone has too many fancy features that I don't really want to pay for. (And I cannot really find that model for sale at any of my two regular online Norwegian shops, or with a quick search...)

My ideal phone would be something like Sony Ericsson Z200 but with iSync capability (don't care if it's using Bluetooth or USB). Now if that "low end" Motorola iPhone is anything like that I might spring for a new phone. iTunes capability is not what I'm after, I would still use my iPod mini for playing music, but give me an easy-to-use and very simple phone that works well with Address Book, iCal and iSync.

But both the V3 RAZR and the V300 looks gorgeous and I might be tempted for any of these or a similar Sony Ericsson phone if my job hunting is successful and I start in a new well-paying job this fall...

 

[PBGPowerbook]

I have no idea why people keep bringing up the RAZR which came out ages ago. It's been said time and again that although it's really really thin, it sucks for EVERYTHING else. No way in hell is the iTunes phone going to be a RAZR

 

[foady]

The only advantage that these phones will have is the ability to play downloaded songs from iTunes (because of the protection/security). And really, is this persuasive enough for consumers to buy them?

No matter what bells and whistles Apple/Motorola spin on these phones, the bottom line is still going to be will I be able to make and receive calls 100% of the time throughout the country/world. I mean, it is a phone after all, no? If the RF is crappy, if the user interface is crappy, if the phone is crappy, then who cares about the ability to take pictures, record videos, or play iTunes songs? You know what I mean?

The phones that we are offered in the US suck. I have long stopped buying phones from US carriers and instead, have opted to buy unlocked GSM phones from overseas. By the way...I have the SE K750i... it rocks! Pictures, videos, music files, good reception (I have T-Mobile in Chicago), it does them all.

At this point, I don't see any compelling reason for me to buy the new Apple/Motorola phones.

 

[24C]

But to me you're talking about two totally different products. The iPod and the cellular phone. They are not the same. I like my iPod because I can store 5000+ songs on it, and 5000+ pictures on it -- and that's what its good for. I like my cell phone because I can call people on it. Yes, I occasionally use my cell phone for its calendar abilities - but more often than not it's to call my office and see if my calendar is clear on _x_ date.

I guess we are all different, because I would like to see an iPod shuffle integrated into a cell phone. I like listening to a small part of my iTunes music collection on the shuffle and I like the idea of listening to music and when the phone rings it cuts in or lets you know you've got a call or message. Some phones like the new Sony Ericcson K750i in the UK come close, but they don't connect to iTunes software directly.

No iTunes based phone is ever going to be built with enough memory to hold more than a hundred or so songs -- otherwise you're talking about pricing out the shuffle or the cellular phone itself.

I reckon a slimline memory card like a duo or smaller would cover any capacity issues, and it might price out a shuffle, but it doesn't replace it as I'd never dream of going for a run with a cell phone on an armband.

 

[Whotheheck]

They didn't. And T-Mobile and Cingular use different varieties of GSM. Verizon is still the king. They may not technically have the most coverage anymore, but cingular's coverage doesn't actually work very well most of the time. Verizon has the largest, most functional system, and they know it and charge for it. But they may fall hard if they can't get their tech updates smoothly.

mmmm, nope. T-Mobile and Cingular use the same type of GSM network. In fact, they shared some towers up into the early part of this year. Hell, go into a T-Mobile store and then a Cingular store and you'll notice that a lot of phones are the same. Any GSM phone will work with either provider, as long as it is not locked. If it is locked, there are ways around that also...

I work for Cingular ad I haven't heard anything about this itunes phone... yet. Although, I did see a nice thin black phone (not the black razor... it wasn't flip) at a meeting thing we had at work. It had expandable memory and everything. I wonder if that'll end up being the iTunes phone? I hope so. It was sexy as hell!

 

[mkrishnan]

mmmm, nope. T-Mobile and Cingular use the same type of GSM network.

This is true, come to think of it...actually, I get no-cost "roaming" occasionally on Cingular's network. The text at the top of the screen says Cingular instead of T-Mobile when this happens! Of course, there is also no-cost roaming on a bunch of other associated GSM networks, and their names are also displayed up there when I'm not directly on T-Mo's network. But it's all free, so who cares?

 

[jblodgett]

I reckon a slimline memory card like a duo or smaller would cover any capacity issues, and it might price out a shuffle, but it doesn't replace it as I'd never dream of going for a run with a cell phone on an armband.

But again you're talking about having two separate pieces of hardware, which is exactly what you have today.

 

[24C]

But again you're talking about having two separate pieces of hardware, which is exactly what you have today.

Exactly it doesn't replace or price out the shuffle. If I go to the gym I take the shuffle, because I don't take the phone. If I jump on the bike and go away for the weekend, a 100 songs on my phone would be great and wearing the Sony Fontopias under the helmet, kills the noise of the exhaust/engine and I need a cell phone just to let folks know I got there OK and I am not fixed to a landline.
If I'm going to visit some mates in Europe, I'd take a iPod color load it up with my Mac files/music/photos etc (except I don't have one yet) AND a cell phone with a GPS hook up.
So some convergence in my case would be useful, and if I could get a 3MP with optical zoom cell phone that played a bit of music & had a GPS option, that talked to iPhoto & iTunes I would get one..for when one bulge in your pocket is enough.

 

[avkills]

I don't get it. You didn't debunk one single thing he said. Not even the phone issue. Try using your phone on another carrier. Over there they can because they're all the same GSM. Not here.

He's talking unliminted phone conversations across europe. You're talking about 1000 minutes for $45 with late fees.

He's talking about unlimited calls across europe and you're talking about minutes, but only when you're on Cingular's network.

They have it much better over there, but it's because of competition and user base. Because it's less area to cover, it was quick to cover more highly densely populated areas. Imagine a continent like the northeast here, with few holes in coverage. Everyone buys a phone. So the number of users per tower is very high. Less cost, more revenue, more competition and basically they just want your business. It's not about plans, minutes, rollovers, etc. Probably more about service.

Why would I want to use my phone on another carrier when Cingular pretty much covers everywhere I need? Actually, Cingular has service plans that allow you to use the phone in Europe as well. I travel for business, and I checked out all the different plans and AT&T had the best one. I chose AT&T before they merged with Cingular.

Straight from Cingular's website:

With Cingular Nation, never pay domestic long distance or roaming charges! Plans $59.99 and higher include Unlimited Nationwide Mobile to Mobile minutes, Unlimited Night & Weekend minutes, and Rollover. Service is not available at all times in all places. View Map and Coverage Limitations.

Sure it is not perfect, but it seems to be better than any of the others. They actually do not offer my plan anymore, but they have to honor it. And the US could do the same thing as Europe if they would just phase out the non GSM networks.

I did the research before I bought my first cell phone and I decided that it was a requirement to be GSM, since that offers the most flexibility for the future.

What do you mean by late fees? I can use my minutes whenever I want.

-mark

 

[jblodgett]

Exactly it doesn't replace or price out the shuffle. If I go to the gym I take the shuffle, because I don't take the phone. If I jump on the bike and go away for the weekend, a 100 songs on my phone would be great and wearing the Sony Fontopias under the helmet, kills the noise of the exhaust/engine and I need a cell phone just to let folks know I got there OK and I am not fixed to a landline.
If I'm going to visit some mates in Europe, I'd take a iPod color load it up with my Mac files/music/photos etc (except I don't have one yet) AND a cell phone with a GPS hook up.
So some convergence in my case would be useful, and if I could get a 3MP with optical zoom cell phone that played a bit of music & had a GPS option, that talked to iPhoto & iTunes I would get one..for when one bulge in your pocket is enough.

Well I've never wanted or considered a shuffle, so I have never really considered it part of the line. I'm not going to buy a $100 shuffle when I already own a $400 iPod photo -- they do the same thing. But that's just me.

And in the end, for what I need it to do - I would STILL need the iPod and the phone - separately.

The "iPhone" just isn't for me, I guess. Or at least nobody has convinced me why it is.

 

[knoxer]

Last week I nearly signed a new 2 year contract with Verizon, but fortunately the phone I wanted (v710 - on which Verizon has crippled the bluetooth and USB) was out of stock. Now I'll just wait a while and see how this turns out.

 

[andiwm2003]

Nice try, but my AT&T (Cingular) service lets me receive and make calls anywhere in the US and Canada with no extra service charges unless I am not logged into a Cingular network. I basically get 1000 minutes a month and it costs $45/month for the service. All other crap costs extra like text messaging and web access, etc etc, which I don't use anyway.

Also, I am not locked into buying a phone at a Cingular store. All I need to do is pop my SIM card out and put it into another phone.

-mark

nice try. my german phone (T-Mobile) cost me 10 euros a month. recieving calls is free. sms is no extra charge. don't know about pictures, don't use that. get a free phone every 2 years that can be used with any carrier (so i can sell it). no roaming in germany. i don't know about cingular but for me no extra costs if i call from wherever i want to a landline. international calls are not too expensive. recieving international calls is free.

but nevertheless your deal sounds quite o.k.. when i checked out the websites i didn't see something like that. i have a triband phone that should work in europe and the us. i wonder if that SIM card works in my Siemens MC60 or my Motorola Timeport (Both are crappy phones but they work quite nicely).

Seems sometimes it pays off to rant...

Thanks, i'll certainly check out that at&t thing.

andi

 

[andiwm2003]

So are they still charging licensing fees to own a television? Talk about weird! That's freakin' nuts.

yeah, as i said. usually the US is the better place to be. this TV fees totally piss me off. especially that the supreme court hold up that stupid law. and it's not small money we're talking. its $300 bucks a year or so. well thats another rant for another time.........

 

[avkills]

nice try. my german phone (T-Mobile) cost me 10 euros a month. recieving calls is free. sms is no extra charge. don't know about pictures, don't use that. get a free phone every 2 years that can be used with any carrier (so i can sell it). no roaming in germany. i don't know about cingular but for me no extra costs if i call from wherever i want to a landline. international calls are not too expensive. recieving international calls is free.

but nevertheless your deal sounds quite o.k.. when i checked out the websites i didn't see something like that. i have a triband phone that should work in europe and the us. i wonder if that SIM card works in my Siemens MC60 or my Motorola Timeport (Both are crappy phones but they work quite nicely).

Seems sometimes it pays off to rant...

Thanks, i'll certainly check out that at&t thing.

andi

I receive calls for free also. AT&T is no longer, as they were acquired by Cingular. As such, the plan I signed on is no longer available, but they still have to honor it. I would have never done the whole cell phone thing unless it was very close to the same price as a landline. I have a company cell phone also (NEXTEL), so when my contract is up, Cingular better make me a good offer, otherwise I will probably just add another line to my company cell phone and use that.

-mark

 

[The Truth]

If they come out with a low-end phone, capable of making calls and sending text-messages which I can sync with iCal and Address Book I will be very happy...

Don't really care for camera, MMS, Java games, etc. but the ability to use iTunes melodies for ring tones might be fun (for a while).

New phones already do all of those things!

 

[aswitcher]

New phones already do all of those things!

Sure and there are other non-Apple computers and operating systems out their

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

New phones already do all of those things!

Care to be a little more specific? What is these "new phones" you're talking about?

You know of a (very simple and cheap and maybe even clamshell) phone like the above mentioned Sony Ericsson Z200 that will sync with iCal and Address book? Remember, the Z200 doesn't support java, have a camera or even MMS capability or any of the other cr*p that makes phones today unnecessarily expensive.

 

[Thataboy]

I consider myself to be an early adopter gadget geek, but the mobile phone is nowhere near ready to be this super mega convergence device.

First, they all have to have tiny hard drives. Second, they all have to have EVDO or greater speeds. Third, they have to have standard stereo headphone jacks. Fourth, they need about 1000% increased battery capacity.

Who ON THIS EARTH would want to stick a few iTunes songs on an ugly phone with virtually no space, and on which playing them would drain the battery fast? Who would want to download songs from iTMS (if that is going to be offered) at current data speeds? Most people I know don't even use the cell phone data packages that are currently offered.

And this is coming from someone who probably has the supreme convergence device right now... the Treo 650. It is a great device, but there is a lot of room for improvement and size reduction, battery power increases...

Oh yeah, and cell phone companies are crazy retarded. Let's not forget that. Verizon has Sony-level delusions about their music download service (hey guys, if names like Napster and Real fail, what makes you think you're crappy service will succeed?).

I have said it oft before, but Apple needs to release a completely new mobile OS. Something Mac-like, but not a Mac OS. Something that is scalable and can be used on smartphones. Something that uses Quicktime, iTunes, iSync, etc. Something that has great connectivity with Windows and Mac.

If they don't want to do that, then they SURELY must write iTunes and Quicktime for Palm OS and Windows CE (or whatever it is called now). SMARTPHONES are the convergence devices, not tiny stupid little cell phones.

So yeah, I am an early adopter and usually buy into everything that is Apple, but this whole project leaves me cold.

 

[ccool2ax]

Ive got your iPod Phone right here.

My ipod phone is:
Shuffle (2g preferably)
Ducktape
Phone.
works just as well

 

[tjwett]

Does Cingular suck everywhere in the U.S. or is it only here in NY? Their service here is widely considered the worst in town, since they merged with AT&T and inherited their crappy service.

 

[Lollypop]

personally i dont have a pocket problem, ipod mini, cell, wallet and car keys all fit fine, for me the phone will be a new cell (i always want a new cell) and the apple logo somewhere on/in it.

Apple should have tried and go for the rest of the world markets, the EU isnt that limited as the US, and here in SA some providers are giving shuffles away with new contracts, just amagine how they would love to give away a phone that can do both!!!

 

[scu]

For two years i am waiting to buy a new mobilephone , i think the moment is there to buy one
____________________________

I agree. I would prefer a true Apple branded phone, but we will not see that. I don't care much for iTunes and music on my phone, but I do want a much better phone that is easier to use and offers a much longer battery life. Apple might be the answer but it will be a very expensive solution.

 

[avkills]

Does Cingular suck everywhere in the U.S. or is it only here in NY? Their service here is widely considered the worst in town, since they merged with AT&T and inherited their crappy service.

I think you have it backwards... AT&T rocked and they inherited Cingular's crappy service with the merger.

Anyway, my phone seemed to work ok in NY City.

-mark

 

[MacBram]

...Plus, for all I know the phone companies over there are subsidized by tax payer dollars or something creepy like that.

one or two are national companies like BT (British Telecom), but things have opened up a lot lately and, in UK, BT has had to loosen its hold on a lot of things. So there is quite a bit of competition now.

We'll get there. So are they still charging licensing fees to own a television? Talk about weird! That's freakin' nuts.

Speaking for UK, the license fee is not to own a TV...just to use one to receive and watch broadcast programming - specifically the BBC, which is a public service and is commercial advertisement free.

So the licensing fee directly makes up for the privilege of having advert-free TV - BBC's 1 and 2 for everyone (there are several more BBC Channels on cable). Probably also contributes to advert-free Radio. BBC has at least five national FM channels, and lots of local ones.

It's not too bad...programmes that are normally scheduled by the hour and half-hour on normal stations take 20-minutes and 40-minutes! And the programming is supposed to be a little more superior in content, at least it used to be.

Ripley