Apple Moving From Intel's Infineon to Qualcomm for Next-Generation iPhone Cellular Chip?

[kntgsp]

I suspect that Apple will accept nothing less than a cellular chipset that does both CDMA and GSM.

Why?

GSM coverage and userbase absolutely dwarfs CDMA by comparison. Depending on sales numbers in particular markets, it might be more cost effective to make a separate CDMA version. And why would they want to further fragment their phone division?

There's no real point. LTE/HSPA+ is already rolling out on the GSM networks. Just let CDMA die already.

The problem for the US is the carrier exclusivity.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Why?

GSM coverage and userbase absolutely dwarfs CDMA by comparison. Depending on sales numbers in particular markets, it might be more cost effective to make a separate CDMA version. And why would they want to further fragment their phone division?

There's no real point. LTE/HSPA+ is already rolling out on the GSM networks. Just let CDMA die already.

The problem for the US is the carrier exclusivity.

Sorry, but CDMA isn't going anywhere soon. Even with Verizon and Sprint looking forward to LTE and other 4G options, CDMA will still be the fall-back network for years and years to come. While it may make financial sense to produce separate chips, it also makes sense to make a do-it-all chip that empowers users to cancel contracts and go to any carrier that their heart desires.

 

[kntgsp]

Intel needs a major competitor soon. I don't really like that they're slowly starting to dominate all aspects of the CPU market. Eventually that will lead to a lazy Intel with no ambition.

It's slightly off topic, but here's the problem Apple is presented with regards to Intel:

AMD's seamless integration of ATI GPUs into their chipsets allows them much, much more flexibility in terms of chipset design. Intel has remained steadfast that NVidia cannot design i5/i7 chipsets like they could with the old Core 2 Duos.

The problem has already reared its head in the Macbook (Pro....if you can call it that) 13" model. It's stuck in Core 2 Duo land for the sole reason that NVidia cannot build chipsets around Core-i family anymore. But at the same time Intel's integrated graphics have and continue to blow.

So the only option in that situation was "Stay with Core 2 Duo so we can still get an integrated NVidia GPU", "Watch the graphics performance take a nosedive" or "redesign the chassis".

If they swapped to AMD, custom chipsets with integrated, capable GPUs would not be an issue. But AMD lags behind Intel on the CPU performance side of things.

 

[chrmjenkins]

It's slightly off topic, but here's the problem Apple is presented with regards to Intel:

AMD's seamless integration of ATI GPUs into their chipsets allows them much, much more flexibility in terms of chipset design. Intel has remained steadfast that NVidia cannot design i5/i7 chipsets like they could with the old Core 2 Duos.

The problem has already reared its head in the Macbook (Pro....if you can call it that) 13" model. It's stuck in Core 2 Duo land for the sole reason that NVidia cannot build chipsets around Core-i family anymore. But at the same time Intel's integrated graphics have and continue to blow.

So the only option in that situation was "Stay with Core 2 Duo so we can still get an integrated NVidia GPU", "Watch the graphics performance take a nosedive" or "redesign the chassis".

If they swapped to AMD, custom chipsets with integrated, capable GPUs would not be an issue. But AMD lags behind Intel on the CPU performance side of things.

Intel is starting to come around in the integrated GPU performance area though. Early tests of sandy bridge show promise, with performance being around 10%> than the radeon 5450.

 

[kntgsp]

Sorry, but CDMA isn't going anywhere soon. Even with Verizon and Sprint looking forward to LTE and other 4G options, CDMA will still be the fall-back network for years and years to come. While it may make financial sense to produce separate chips, it also makes sense to make a do-it-all chip that empowers users to cancel contracts and go to any carrier that their heart desires.

You do have other GSM carriers in the US don't you? T-Mobile comes to mind.

With more and more Apple products being sold internationally, integrating CDMA into every single device at the production level seems like a pointless expenditure. If they want to offer a CDMA version for the bipolar US market, then do it as a separate production run. Otherwise it seems like they'd lose money using a more expensive modem in every device when CDMA is really only needed for the US market.

 

[kntgsp]

Intel is starting to come around in the integrated GPU performance area though. Early tests of sandy bridge show promise, with performance being around 10%> than the radeon 5450.

We'll see in the coming months when they do more official demos.

One can only hope they finally get their heads out of their asses in regards to GPUs. Problem is if their state of the art, not-yet-on-the-market chip barely beats a 5450, how's it going to fare in the market when it's actually released.

Either way, time will tell.

 

[Xtremehkr]

It's slightly off topic, but here's the problem Apple is presented with regards to Intel:

AMD's seamless integration of ATI GPUs into their chipsets allows them much, much more flexibility in terms of chipset design. Intel has remained steadfast that NVidia cannot design i5/i7 chipsets like they could with the old Core 2 Duos.

The problem has already reared its head in the Macbook (Pro....if you can call it that) 13" model. It's stuck in Core 2 Duo land for the sole reason that NVidia cannot build chipsets around Core-i family anymore. But at the same time Intel's integrated graphics have and continue to blow.

So the only option in that situation was "Stay with Core 2 Duo so we can still get an integrated NVidia GPU", "Watch the graphics performance take a nosedive" or "redesign the chassis".

If they swapped to AMD, custom chipsets with integrated, capable GPUs would not be an issue. But AMD lags behind Intel on the CPU performance side of things.

Hopefully there is company out with the long term vision to realize how bad it would be for the industry if Intel was the only major player. Hopefully they'll step in and get AMD back on competitive terms with Intel.

 

[chrmjenkins]

You do have other GSM carriers in the US don't you? T-Mobile comes to mind.

With more and more Apple products being sold internationally, integrating CDMA into every single device at the production level seems like a pointless expenditure. If they want to offer a CDMA version for the bipolar US market, then do it as a separate production run. Otherwise it seems like they'd lose money using a more expensive modem in every device when CDMA is really only needed for the US market.

It depends how much they can leverage on qualcomm. If they say "give us a cheap dual mode chip, otherwise we'll only buy only cdma chips from you," they may be inclined to give them a good deal. Combined with the subsidies, it may make business sense.

We'll see in the coming months when they do more official demos.

One can only hope they finally get their heads out of their asses in regards to GPUs. Problem is if their state of the art, not-yet-on-the-market chip barely beats a 5450, how's it going to fare in the market when it's actually released.

Either way, time will tell.

Anandtech's numbers were very preliminary. Performance could turn out to be even better.

 

[notromeel]

Why not just invest in a hybrid?

 

[iMacoo7]

Either way it goes, Everyone will be allot happier than they are now , if in fact they are not already happy. I will surely be glad when the day comes that more people here in the US can use the most efficient device on the market thus far.

 

[lilo777]

"Well, that may have been money better spent on something else, since it seems that the baseband chips for the iPhone 5 will come from Qualcomm, not Infineon."

This is quite a stupid statement of course. baseband chips are used not just by smart phones. Given how miniscule Apple's share is in the overall mobile phone market, even if they stopped using Infineon chips, this would not make any difference. Infineon chips are used by Nokia and Samsung (combined mobile phone market share 55%)

 

[satcomer]

As someone who is grandfathered at AT&T having still a 3GS is hopeing greedy Verizon gets an iPhone version and all you whiners jump ship to Verizon. I will then sit happily on AT&T with my Unlimited Data plan.

 

[Craiglorocks]

As someone who is grandfathered at AT&T having still a 3GS is hopeing greedy Verizon gets an iPhone version and all you whiners jump ship to Verizon. I will then sit happily on AT&T with my Unlimited Data plan.

Yes, my unlimited data plan on my Droid is quite nice. All new incoming customers to Verizon get to enjoy that luxury too. How is AT&T on unlimited data plans for new AND existing customers?

 

[satcomer]

Yes, my unlimited data plan on my Droid is quite nice. All new incoming customers to Verizon get to enjoy that luxury too. How is AT&T on unlimited data plans for new AND existing customers?

Well AT&T had Unlimited Data plans but now since Verizon stop selling Unlimited Pans, AT&T followed. I just got grandfathered because I had a Unlimited plan already. I guess now with more & more "smart phones" that have come online the cellular companies are getting bandwidth worried.

IMHO Verizon nickles and dimes their cell customers and all those happy Droid users might one day be paying out of their collective noises.

 

[Nord]

For how many years Apple is rumored to go on Verizon next year ?

I'm not living in the US, but it seems this "next year" stuff comes every year.
It's like the Indian dance for rain, they dance until it rains, it always works. Maybe if you keep saying iPhone on Verizon comes next year, it'll end up coming.

 

[tobybrut]

What many don't understand is that CDMA underlies all 3G wireless technologies. HSPA, WCDMA, CDMA2000 are all flavors of CDMA. If your iPhone says 3G on it right now, it is using CDMA using a GSM-style air interface, but the underlying technology is CDMA. If your iPhone says E, then it is running old TDMA technology (2G wireless) using a GSM-style air interface.

If it's CDMA, then Qualcomm has something to do with it as they hold most of the key underlying patents. In 4G, such as LTE, Flarion held most of the underlying patents behind the multi-path OFDM technology, which is the basis of all 4G wireless, including LTE, Wimax, and the now-defunct UMB. Flarion was purchased by Qualcomm, so again, 4G will be ruled by Qualcomm patents.

As mentioned earlier, Qualcomm is the premier supplier for 3G chipsets, including those that operate on GSM networks. That includes multi-mode chipsets that operate on the whole alphabet soup of standards, including CDMA2000 (the flavor of CDMA in Sprint and Verizon), HSPA (3G CDMA/GSM under ATT and T-Mobile), and even China's TD-SCDMA. If you want to crack the larger China market, you have to support TD-SCDMA, so Apple has a reason to go for a multi-mode chipset besides deeper penetration into the US market.

Other markets, such as South Korea, are also primarily CDMA2000, moving to LTE in the future. So if you want a more world view, multi-mode is the way to go.

It would be a simple matter for Qualcomm to supply a chipset for a world-wide phone that operates on every 3G network on the planet. Qualcomm even supports a combined 3G/4G chipset (probably won't be ready for an iPhone 5), but only for LTE, as Qualcomm will not support Wimax, as Qualcomm does not believe Wimax is a true 4G technology. So the chips are available. It's just a question of money and whether the two companies can make a deal.

 

[Craiglorocks]

Well AT&T had Unlimited Data plans but now since Verizon stop selling Unlimited Pans, AT&T followed. I just got grandfathered because I had a Unlimited plan already. I guess now with more & more "smart phones" that have come online the cellular companies are getting bandwidth worried.

IMHO Verizon nickles and dimes their cell customers and all those happy Droid users might one day be paying out of their collective noises.

That is a plain lie. I was just at Verizon's website. I selected the Droid X and went through the plan selection system. You can sign up for the phone right now with unlimited data for $29.99 as a new customer just as always. Go to AT&Ts website and you cannot sign up for an unlimited pan for the iPhone as a new customer.

AT&T killed the unlimited data plan and is the only US carrier that has done so.

 

[Johnny2009]

Makes Sense to me

Apple Moving From Intel's Infineon to Qualcomm for Next-Generation iPhone Cellular Chip?

Makes alot of sense, because Apple wants one true world phone that can work on as many carriers as possible.

Apple isnt going to make just a CDMA iPhone that will only work on Verizon and or Sprint, because Apple is very very careful about branding the iPhone. They want one phone, the iPhone to work with all carriers possible and with this Qualcomm chip, they will achieve that.

 

[BlkEagle]

It is just planning...

Hmmm, there is no hard evidence of this yet. Since it is just planning... planning! DROOLLLLLLLLL

 

[SeattleMoose]

Playing With Fire?

And who is it that makes ALL the processors for the entire Mac line?

Hope no "major CPU shortages" occur with the holidays coming up.

 

[t21]

Infineon, *not* aquired by Intel

Up until now, the baseband chip supplier for the iPhones and the iPad 3G has been Infineon, a company recently acquired by Intel for a boatload of cash.

No, Intel did not buy Infineon.

However, they bought their Wireless Solutions Business: http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/corporate/press/news/releases/2010/INFXX201008-069.html

Remember that Intel bought from DSP Communications and others for about 1.6 G$ such wireless know-how - and sold it some time later for much less. Now they bought it again from Infineon, for 1.4 G$.

How long will it take for full Atom and wireless chipsets from Intel?

 

[lilo777]

And who is it that makes ALL the processors for the entire Mac line?

Hope no "major CPU shortages" occur with the holidays coming up.

Not to worry. Apple is about to get out of computer business altogether anyways

 

[aristotle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-CDMA_(UMTS)

WCDMA != CDMA2000. They are not compatible. UMTS uses a core network that is compatible with GSM, not CDMA2000. Only the air interface has similarities to CDMA hence the name WCDMA.

The 3G evolution of GSM (UMTS aka. HSPA aka HSUPA aka FOMA (Japan) aka WCDMA) and GSM (Edge) can share the same core network while having different air interfaces.



CDMA carriers in North America use a standard called CDMA2000. When Telus/Bell implemented their HSPA+ (WCDMA) network beside their existing CDMA network, they had to create a whole new core network because HSPA is not compatible with CDMA2000.

 

[Digitalclips]

Writer didn't know what he is talking about. Qualcomm is also the premier supplier of HSPA chips in the world. iPhone would get waaay better reception for AT&T with Qualcomm vs. Infineon chips.

That would be excellent news indeed and kill several birds at once. I wonder why Apple didn't use Qualcomm sooner?

 

[jav6454]

Anandtech's numbers were very preliminary. Performance could turn out to be even better.

Much so more that the CPU benched was a A0 revision, and I am sure Intel will most certainly release either A1, B0 or B1. I don't see them releasing A0 at all.