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Glad this thread is still going. Went to Best Buy the night before last and they had most of the wireless speakers side by side. I listed to the Play 1, 2 and 3 then listened to the Samsung Rx series and finally the Bose SoundTouch. My thoughts

Sonos

The Play 5 certainly sounds like a generation better than the Play 1 & 2. Hopefully Sonos will get revamped 1 & 2 models out in 2016. Love the Play 5 form factor. Sonos did a great job with the fit and finish.

Samsung

I actually was surprised with the sound quality of the R2 and R3. I felt like they had a peaky midrange that jumped out a bit more than the Sonos. They had some Jazz tracks that sounded great. I have no idea about their control software and how good it is but the speakers were better than I expected honestly.

Bose

Yes I've used the phrase "No highs no lows must be Bose" but as far as a lineup of speakers goes they were my favorites. They have a more warm midrange/midbass and the SoundTouch 10 was the best $199 speaker of the lot IMO. The SoundTouch 30 was equal to the Play 5 to my ears in quality and power output. A notable advantage of the Bose is that the new models are Series III and they have Bluetooth natively which can synced across multiple SoundTouch speakers. Wish it had native Airplay but BT ensures that guests can easily play tracks for you.

I'm torn because I like the sound of the Bose system but don't necessarily trust their software yet. Their iOS app is not favorably reviewed. I love the white color the Bose come in.

I did have a chance to demo the Denon Helios and Polk Play-fi systems but they were in another room. I preferred the Denon. I think Polk's offering at the lower end just doesn't hold up well.

What I'm likely going to do is do an in-home test next year of low end systems (roughly $199-249 spkrs) and return the speaker I do not want. I won't base the entire decision on the low end speaker but if i'm honest with myself I know i'm likely going to have a few of the smallest speakers in my home and will augment with the larger systems later
 
Glad this thread is still going. Went to Best Buy the night before last and they had most of the wireless speakers side by side. I listed to the Play 1, 2 and 3 then listened to the Samsung Rx series and finally the Bose SoundTouch. My thoughts

Sonos

The Play 5 certainly sounds like a generation better than the Play 1 & 2. Hopefully Sonos will get revamped 1 & 2 models out in 2016. Love the Play 5 form factor. Sonos did a great job with the fit and finish.

Samsung

I actually was surprised with the sound quality of the R2 and R3. I felt like they had a peaky midrange that jumped out a bit more than the Sonos. They had some Jazz tracks that sounded great. I have no idea about their control software and how good it is but the speakers were better than I expected honestly.

Bose

Yes I've used the phrase "No highs no lows must be Bose" but as far as a lineup of speakers goes they were my favorites. They have a more warm midrange/midbass and the SoundTouch 10 was the best $199 speaker of the lot IMO. The SoundTouch 30 was equal to the Play 5 to my ears in quality and power output. A notable advantage of the Bose is that the new models are Series III and they have Bluetooth natively which can synced across multiple SoundTouch speakers. Wish it had native Airplay but BT ensures that guests can easily play tracks for you.

I'm torn because I like the sound of the Bose system but don't necessarily trust their software yet. Their iOS app is not favorably reviewed. I love the white color the Bose come in.

I did have a chance to demo the Denon Helios and Polk Play-fi systems but they were in another room. I preferred the Denon. I think Polk's offering at the lower end just doesn't hold up well.

What I'm likely going to do is do an in-home test next year of low end systems (roughly $199-249 spkrs) and return the speaker I do not want. I won't base the entire decision on the low end speaker but if i'm honest with myself I know i'm likely going to have a few of the smallest speakers in my home and will augment with the larger systems later
Good idea in bringing home and trying...you are always best served to trial any audio solution in your home versus a busy store. Also, you'll have much more control over what you want to play and, more importantly, where you want to position your speakers. I found that Sonos Play:1 speakers sound very different based on room placement.
 
The only "high quality sound" in Sonos library is the Connect, which costs $350. The Airport Express is lossless (Redbook CD quality) and costs $99, so there isn't a trade off for "high quality sound". It is the reason audio manufactures often include Airplay in their components.

The Sonos category is more about un-spec'd speakers that cost more than better sounding spec'd speakers because some people will pay for the convenience of multi-room and "wireless" (although you have to plug them in) audio.

Multi-room audio is great for background music at a party, but is not a good way to get decent SQ for people that listen to music critically. If you have music playing in another room it can affect the sound stage and overall sound in general from the actual room you are in.

I see a lot of people say that it is designed specifically for multi-zone audio, but they sell individual mono speakers. I don't think they would be as successful if they required you to buy a full system. So, the fact is, many people are using one, mono speaker and are not even using a set of them for whole home audio. I agree that multi-zone is the strength, but there are plenty of people that see the reviews and think that the $199 mono speaker without specs will sound great since no one really ever reviews the sound quality (which is difficult.. which is why many like to see published specs).

I don't know if it is subpar because it lacks the ability to use it with all the apps that you can use with Airplay, but it will be a consideration for a lot of people that want to just open an app and use it today without crossing their fingers that it will be added to Sonos in the future.

5 years ago, Airplay had issues because of the wifi specs at the time (of course, you could wire it and not even have anything on wifi if you were streaming from a connected computer).

People with modern routers should not have issues these days in a normal environment. At home, I never have Airplay issues, so I thought my home setup was unique after reading posts like yours. Then I started taking my AppleTV on vacations. It works perfectly every time in every strange system I have run across...even for Airplaying video, which is much more data hungry. Even Sonos has started allowing you to just connect to your main wifi network.

I still have three Airport Express units that are the older models that were introduced in 2008. They work better than the day I got them, even though one of them is in a room that has no climate control (sunroom) and the other is in a bathroom. So it isn't unusual at all to have these type of devices for a long time. I actually have a Marantz receiver from the 70s, so 5 years of use in the audio spectrum isn't something that is all that impressive.

"God Forbid"..Yeah, that is why Sonos has advertised that it is Airplay compatible...in smaller print they tell you to connect an Airport Express....yep, everyone has one laying around to compliment the other system they just bought.

5826658.jpg




I would not be surprised if a lot of Sonos owners don't sit and listen to music. It would explain why they put a premium on controlling zones over speaker quality.

Airplay could easily be used in an audiophile's whole estate audio system. Crestron, just to mention one whole estate system, supports Airplay. However, most audiophiles don't listen to music critically while walking around the house. For one, you lose the imaging, stereo effect, etc. Luckily, Airplay is also built into products by respected brands like McIntosh and Classe. Yes, these companies could just let you attach a plastic, bulky eyesore to their equipment, but many (including mainstream companies like Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc..) prefer an integrated approach.

Once the system is setup, like Sonos, it doesn't require any other work. It just works...at least in the many wireless setups I have tried.


All that being said, if you need zone control and don't mind trade offs, Sonos is a perfectly good option. I personally don't need control of different audio streams all over the house from one device. We have multiple iOS devices in the house and one person can control and listen to what they want in one room, while someone else controls and listens to what they want in another room. However, I realize that people have different needs.

Disclosure: I love Sonos.

That being said, you make a ton of good points. To summarize, AirPlay can absolutely be a better solution for some people. And, everyone should do due diligence when buying, because there are many options for various use cases/desires.

I will point out that 1 of your points, about "Yeah, that is why Sonos has advertised that it is Airplay compatible", is misplaced. That advertisement you posted looks to be at least several years old (iOS6) and AirPlay is really no longer a crutch for Sonos. They consider it a workaround at most.
 
I can't cut my lawn with my snowblower. And Sonos does not allow for every potential method of playing audio.

People tend to bash Sonos far more for the relatively few use cases or services that it does not support over the incredible variety and flexibility it does provide.

Take 1 look at the customer ratings on a major internet retailer site to gauge the satisfaction relative to some highly regarded Apple products.

rMBP (current model, 128gb) - 4.7
rMBP (current model, 256gb) - 4.7
iMac (current model, 27 in Retina) - 4.3
Sonos Play:1 - 4.6
Sonos Play:5 - 4.5

People are generally very happy with their Sonos purchases.

jdag, first of, apologies if I'm sounding like I'm bashing Sonos. I'm not. It just doesn't fit my needs and doesn't seem like the best way to spend 1000's on multiroom home audio to me. It clearly fits many others' needs and that's great. It's a good, smart product.

Regarding Amazon user reviews, they are not an indication of quality or value. Case in point, the Beats Solo headphones have a 4.5 star rating. Are they good headphones that make millions of people happy? Yes. Are they the best you can do for $200? No way. There are a dozens of Grado, Sennheiser, Denon, etc headphones out there in the same price range that are way better. I have heard them all. All have good reviews on Amazon, too.
 
A lot of folks seem to be comparing Sonos to what you can do with one speaker connected using Airplay or an equivalent. For that one specific use case, I'd agree there are probably more similarities than differences. To my mind, where Sonos really moves ahead of the pack is the use case it was actually built for - seamless multi-room audio. It's absolutely rock solid in that regard - perfect synchronization for as many zones as you could reasonably require, integration with most of the key music services, ability to easily have the same or different content playing across your zones, and continually upgraded features and functionality where even the oldest Sonos products aren't left behind. I've been building my system for 10 years, and I'm even happier with it now than I was when I first made the leap of faith in what was then a small start up with big ideas.
 
jdag, first of, apologies if I'm sounding like I'm bashing Sonos. I'm not. It just doesn't fit my needs and doesn't seem like the best way to spend 1000's on multiroom home audio to me. It clearly fits many others' needs and that's great. It's a good, smart product.

Regarding Amazon user reviews, they are not an indication of quality or value. Case in point, the Beats Solo headphones have a 4.5 star rating. Are they good headphones that make millions of people happy? Yes. Are they the best you can do for $200? No way. There are a dozens of Grado, Sennheiser, Denon, etc headphones out there in the same price range that are way better. I have heard them all. All have good reviews on Amazon, too.
Fair enough
 
Glad this thread is still going. Went to Best Buy the night before last and they had most of the wireless speakers side by side. I listed to the Play 1, 2 and 3 then listened to the Samsung Rx series and finally the Bose SoundTouch. My thoughts

Sonos

The Play 5 certainly sounds like a generation better than the Play 1 & 2. Hopefully Sonos will get revamped 1 & 2 models out in 2016. Love the Play 5 form factor. Sonos did a great job with the fit and finish.
What is this mysterious "Play 2" you speak of? There's a 1, 3 and 5. :cool:

I have not listened to the new Play:5, so I can't compare that one. But to my ears the Play:1's always sounded better than the 3 or (previous gen) 5. Especially for the form factor. I own all 3 of them, and my conclusion is based on real world use and not with the handpicked and tweaked demo tracks you play in the store. As someone else mentioned, though, the Play:1 certainly does have a different sound depending on placement. I find near a wall to be great, but in a corner to need a bass cut. The only reason I even considered a Play:5 was for its line-in capability so I could use it with my turntable to fill my music room (and any other room I want).
 
I will point out that 1 of your points, about "Yeah, that is why Sonos has advertised that it is Airplay compatible", is misplaced. That advertisement you posted looks to be at least several years old (iOS6) and AirPlay is really no longer a crutch for Sonos. They consider it a workaround at most.
1. That link is not several years old (I actually linked to it from Macrumors in April 2014, so I don't know when they eventually took it down, but it was on their site in 2014.). The point was that they did advertise it, so Sonos obviously didn't believe that using Airplay was the "God Forbid" situation that I was responding to.
2. The photo below is still on their site (as well as instructions for setting up the Airport Express which they updated in November 2015):
ALL_PLAY5_airport.jpg


Once again, if Sonos considers itself a stand alone system that can fill in all of the areas that Airplay fills, then there would be no mention of Airplay and how to set it up. The fact is that they know that they have clients that want to use Airplay, so it is on their site.
 
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A lot of folks seem to be comparing Sonos to what you can do with one speaker connected using Airplay or an equivalent. For that one specific use case, I'd agree there are probably more similarities than differences. To my mind, where Sonos really moves ahead of the pack is the use case it was actually built for - seamless multi-room audio. It's absolutely rock solid in that regard - perfect synchronization for as many zones as you could reasonably require, integration with most of the key music services, ability to easily have the same or different content playing across your zones, and continually upgraded features and functionality where even the oldest Sonos products aren't left behind. I've been building my system for 10 years, and I'm even happier with it now than I was when I first made the leap of faith in what was then a small start up with big ideas.
I am trying to figure out why this feature is important enough to pay a premium for un-spec'd speakers? I realize that whole home audio is useful during parties..which is why I often use Airplay for that feature.

What I am trying to get a handle on is a scenario where you need one controller to play music in different zones of the home or send different streams from one controller to different areas of the home? In other words, you can already select individual/multiple speakers with Airplay/Airfoil/Whaale, but it doesn't currently have the option for setting up separate zones (which seems to be the huge selling point that people are describing). Personally, when I am home by myself or with family, I will just move the Airplay signal to the room I am in from the Control Center on the iPhone. I don't need it blasting all over the house unless we have a party.

In other words, I would like to know the reasons you want/need music playing in multiple rooms at the same time with individual control of different sources from one controller? I may be missing something, but that is why I am asking.
 
1. That link is not several years old (I actually linked to it from Macrumors in April 2014, so I don't know when they eventually took it down, but it was on their site in 2014.). The point was that they did advertise it, so Sonos obviously didn't believe that using Airplay was the "God Forbid" situation that I was responding to.
2. The photo below is still on their site (as well as instructions for setting up the Airport Express which they updated in November 2015):
ALL_PLAY5_airport.jpg


Once again, if Sonos considers itself a stand alone system that can fill in all of the areas that Airplay fills, then there would be no mention of Airplay and how to set it up. The fact is that they know that they have clients that want to use Airplay, so it is on their site.
Of course there will be clients that may want AirPlay in addition to Sonos for certain situations but that doesn't mean that AirPlay is a superior solution to Sonos. Most Sonos users don't have an Airport Express connected to their system but good on Sonos for actually showing people how to do it if they really wanted it.

The reason that Sonos has had so much success isn't necessarily because of multiroom (I only use it 10% of the time at most) it is because it is rock solid. Where AirPlay over the years has had its issues for many people have connection issues, dropouts or stuttering, it just isn't reliable enough.

Previous to streaming everyone was listening to CDs and you could guarantee that when you put on a CD it was just going to play. There were no 'will it/won't it?' scenarios that have plagued AirPlay and Bluetooth. I know hifi sales people hate demoing it and cross their fingers that it works otherwise they will look foolish in front of the customer. Sonos for most people just works. It's wireless is rock-solid and create specifically for streaming audio. Sonos users know that it is going to work every time (of course there are those environments that are so bad that anything wireless will suffer but for most people there are no issues).
 
Of course there will be clients that may want AirPlay in addition to Sonos for certain situations but that doesn't mean that AirPlay is a superior solution to Sonos. Most Sonos users don't have an Airport Express connected to their system but good on Sonos for actually showing people how to do it if they really wanted it.

The reason that Sonos has had so much success isn't necessarily because of multiroom (I only use it 10% of the time at most) it is because it is rock solid. Where AirPlay over the years has had its issues for many people have connection issues, dropouts or stuttering, it just isn't reliable enough.

Previous to streaming everyone was listening to CDs and you could guarantee that when you put on a CD it was just going to play. There were no 'will it/won't it?' scenarios that have plagued AirPlay and Bluetooth. I know hifi sales people hate demoing it and cross their fingers that it works otherwise they will look foolish in front of the customer. Sonos for most people just works. It's wireless is rock-solid and create specifically for streaming audio. Sonos users know that it is going to work every time (of course there are those environments that are so bad that anything wireless will suffer but for most people there are no issues).
I have read Sonos troubleshooting section in the past and plenty of people have had issues with it, as well. That is why they have a page dedicated to "Audio Playback Stops or Skips".

As I have already mentioned, I use Airplay on a daily basis, home or away from home, and don't have the issues you describe. I have used the system "over the years", with many different routers, and if my experience was anything like you described, I would have abandoned it years ago. I have zero interest in using a system that is unreliable, and if that was the case, I would definitely find better alternatives. Whether or not the system works in your environment isn't really something I can comment on, but I can see that Sonos has plenty of users that have had issues, as well.

The fact is that a multitude of vendors from high end to low end implement Airplay into their components (I linked a couple in a prior post). If my situation of steady, always working, Airplay was so unusual (no matter where I go), companies like Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, Sony, McIntosh, Classe, etc. wouldn't bother with it because it would affect their own customer satisfaction numbers.
 
1. That link is not several years old (I actually linked to it from Macrumors in April 2014, so I don't know when they eventually took it down, but it was on their site in 2014.). The point was that they did advertise it, so Sonos obviously didn't believe that using Airplay was the "God Forbid" situation that I was responding to.
2. The photo below is still on their site (as well as instructions for setting up the Airport Express which they updated in November 2015):
ALL_PLAY5_airport.jpg


Once again, if Sonos considers itself a stand alone system that can fill in all of the areas that Airplay fills, then there would be no mention of Airplay and how to set it up. The fact is that they know that they have clients that want to use Airplay, so it is on their site.

I stand by my statements.

1) The advertisement you initially showed was at least a couple of years old (it was displayed using iOS6 graphics). You say it was on their site in 2014. We are 28 days from 2016. While it also could have been on their site as late as in Dec 2014, it is still a year+ old either way.

2) The fact that the support documentation is still on their site is completely different than marketing. Yes they support it. I and many others on this thread have said as much. Sonos is known to support their products very well and for a considerable amount of time.

3) Sonos does not consider itself "a stand alone system that can fill in all of the areas that Airplay fills". Sonos readily admits to functionality that it does not support.
 
I stand by my statements.

1) The advertisement you initially showed was at least a couple of years old (it was displayed using iOS6 graphics). You say it was on their site in 2014. We are 28 days from 2016. While it also could have been on their site as late as in Dec 2014, it is still a year+ old either way.

2) The fact that the support documentation is still on their site is completely different than marketing. Yes they support it. I and many others on this thread have said as much. Sonos is known to support their products very well and for a considerable amount of time.

3) Sonos does not consider itself "a stand alone system that can fill in all of the areas that Airplay fills". Sonos readily admits to functionality that it does not support.
The last time I checked a year was not equal to several years...but go ahead and stand by your inaccurate comments if it makes you feel better. The FACT is that Sonos was advertising Airport Express just last year. (which is why I said "has advertised" rather than " is currently advertising")

3... Exactly, even Sonos knows it, that was my point!!!!
 
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The last time I checked a year was not equal to several years...but go ahead and stand by your inaccurate comments if it makes you feel better. The FACT is that Sonos was advertising Airport Express just last year. (which is why I said "has advertised" rather than " is currently advertising")

3... Exactly, even Sonos knows it, that was my point!!!!
2014 could be as little as 11 months ago...as much as 23 months ago. iOS 6 was certainly several years ago.

We are ultimately making the same point...Sonos is not for everyone. I said that from the beginning.
 
2014 could be as little as 11 months ago...as much as 23 months ago. iOS 6 was certainly several years ago.

We are ultimately making the same point...Sonos is not for everyone. I said that from the beginning.
Still not several years even in your example... and your example of 23 months is absolutely inaccurate.

I checked my iPad and I downloaded the pic from their site in June 2014, so it was on their site for months (possibly years for all I know). Sonos is still showing the old version of the Airport Express on their site, so they apparently use the same images for years.

Anyway, I am sure this is boring to others, so I am moving on from this thread. As you said, the main point was made.
 
You can have everything with AirTunes or AirPlay - why use Sonos? Some day Sonos will go bankrupt and you will be left with a broken set of overpriced loudspeakers.

Couple of points on that...

  • Excellent multiroom support.
  • Android support - Someone with a android device can connect to your wifi, connect to your sonos system and play music from their phone.
  • Multiple service support. I still swear by Spotify. It is a much better experience than apple music is at the moment.
  • Again if I'm hosting a party and my mate has a awesome spotify playlist they can connect to my sonos system easily
  • Sonos allows you to listen to local radio stations
  • As others have said it is completely separate from what you are doing on your phone. I can't show someone a funny YouTube video on my phone if it is steaming music...
I could go on and on and on.
 
As I have already mentioned, I use Airplay on a daily basis, home or away from home, and don't have the issues you describe.

I absolutely don't dispute your statement that AirPlay works for you -- if you say it does, then it must.

However, I cannot say the same. I have tried to love AirPlay but it has proven to be glitchy and unreliable again and again and again. I actually think it used to be more reliable years ago but has not been quite as foolproof more recently.

I've used it with my iPhone 4S and an Apple TV gen 2. I've since upgraded to an Apple TV gen 3 and got an iPhone 5S. I've upgraded my Apple TV to the most recent gen 4. I've used these devices in my own house with a D-Link router, that I then upgraded and replaced with a Netgear router. I've used them at my parents' house where they had a D-Link, then a Bell router.

In ALL of these scenarios, and all the combinations of hardware and networking equipment, AirPlay works reliably about 70-80% of the time. At points it seems to stop working well. Audio starts to pause and glitch. Video takes forever to load, stops loading, stutters. The "handoff" from using my phone to the Apple TV to play source material sometimes works (and I can turn off my phone or do something else with it), sometimes doesn't (and as soon as my phone shuts off the Apple TV stops playing). AirPlay works, then doesn't, then doesn't even show up on the list of sources for a while. Rebooting the devices in question sometimes helps.

Granted I live in a more urban area with a TON of wireless networks by my neighbors, so you could blame wireless congestion except that more of these glitches happen at my parents house than my own. More than once I've been concerned that they have a bad network but NO other devices seem to have problems. (And, as an aside, my 3 Sonos units just work. So even if you could provide technical explanations for my AirPlay glitches, there's still the fact that you even had to think about those issues, that the problems even exist.)

So my experience might be a one-off, but it tells me that I don't yet trust AirPlay for all but the most casual of purposes. Nothing is more frustrating or embarrassing than gathering friends around to say "hey check out this video/song", turning on AirPlay and having 6 people wait expectantly... waiting... waiting... waiting...
 
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Sonos just works. I had Airplay hooked up around the house for a few years and it was constantly dropping out, needing to be restarted and generally annoying the hell out of me. Dropouts when you have people round for dinner or parties are just awful. Not to mention, all the speakers were different, there were wires everywhere and the airplay system used up so many mains sockets (Speakers, amp and airplay in most cases).

Eventually I bit the bullet and bought a whole bunch of Sonos speakers and I love them. It drops out maybe once every 6 months or so for a few seconds, and rights itself with no interference from me. Dropouts are so rare that they're really a surprise when they happen. The speakers are well designed, discrete and they do a great job. Plus, all my music is on a low power NAS which is on all the time. I love that my music is available 24/7 without having to have a computer on constantly.

I could never go back to Airplay again...I just feel that I've got the whole music system thing in my home sorted out now and couldn't be happier with it. The addition of Apple Music is welcome, although I use Spotify personally.
 
To the beta testers: does Apple Music on songs also work with the iOS controller app? Because in the past there were no betas for iOS.
 
To the beta testers: does Apple Music on songs also work with the iOS controller app? Because in the past there were no betas for iOS.

We will know tomorrow, but I did an iOS Sonos beta for 5.0, worked fine on my iPhone. Their last beta before this was android only though.
 
I am trying to figure out why this feature is important enough to pay a premium for un-spec'd speakers? I realize that whole home audio is useful during parties..which is why I often use Airplay for that feature.

What I am trying to get a handle on is a scenario where you need one controller to play music in different zones of the home or send different streams from one controller to different areas of the home? In other words, you can already select individual/multiple speakers with Airplay/Airfoil/Whaale, but it doesn't currently have the option for setting up separate zones (which seems to be the huge selling point that people are describing). Personally, when I am home by myself or with family, I will just move the Airplay signal to the room I am in from the Control Center on the iPhone. I don't need it blasting all over the house unless we have a party.

In other words, I would like to know the reasons you want/need music playing in multiple rooms at the same time with individual control of different sources from one controller? I may be missing something, but that is why I am asking.

Here's our daily scenario. I have a gym and my wife is working out there. I'm typically in my office listening to NPR. And we usually have guests in the guest house listening to whatever they choose.

As for music "blasting all over the house", I do this all the time, not just at parties. It's great when you're running around doing things, particularly if you have a larger home. If you live in a two bedroom apartment it is wholly unnecessary.

I start off the day with an alarm playing NPR in four zones, at soft volume in master bedroom as a wake up call, and higher volumes in the master bath, house and kitchen. I have a shower then move to the kitchen to make espresso, catching up on KQED without ever touching my phone or waking up my wife. I then either add my office to the group or go to the gym and start a new stream.

Do note that I no longer listen to music critically not have I ever really done so. I don't have the time, interest, or aural acuity. Music is a soundtrack for the things I'm doing: working out, reading, cooking, getting drunk. And to my aging ears with mostly in wall and ceiling speakers and a handful of play3/5, it sounds great to me.
 
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