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Apple Music Lossless: What Devices are Supported?

I see 14.6 iOS is out, in the article say related to the launch.
But I see nothing in the 14.6 description itself

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dannys1 said:
Listen, as a mix engineer who mixes the records you're listening to, I can confidently say I am not getting them mixed up and I confidently wager £50,000 that you couldn't tell the difference between a FLAC file and a 320kbit MP3 of the same source - so far no one has been able to do - as said, there's an entire blind test on the most detail speakers they could find in a fully audio treated room.

In the greatest respect I drive a Tesla with the premium audio system which has been further enhanced and it's still a million miles away from anything remotely capable of being able to recreate the audio frequencies you can't even hear anyway! As I said, you and neither do I have the best car audio system in the world and even if we did it'd be at the **** end of hi-fi speakers which are at the **** end of studio monitors.

I've got a pair of £1400 Sennheiser HD800s, with a £800 super flat amp to drive them and a £1000 DAC - that combo alone still can't let you hear the difference in compression between a 320kbit MP3 and it's lossless brother, so your car certainly can't - that's why I am able to be bold about my assumptions.
Click to expand...
I can absolutely tell the difference between 320k files and lossless ones. I can hear this difference with 75$ earphones. So, just because your ears suck doesn’t mean others can’t tell🤷🏼‍♂️
I’ll take my £50,000 in USD please.
 
I wrote it on another thread. I'm just listening to it now on my B&W PX with noise cancellation switched off. I can only achieve 48kHz, 24bit audio, but the difference is incredible. So much more detail and definition.

I've not tried it with my Airpods, but I rarely use them for music.

I am one happy punter.
 
Project Alice said:
BT is incapable of lossless. Depending on the connection it might sound slightly better, but it will not sound as good as actual lossless.
Click to expand...
Not technically true. Depending on the source audio, it is capable of lossless audio.

For example, the LDAC codec delivers a hybrid format that employs both lossless and lossy compression depending on the source audio.

AptX HD is similar in that it employs a hybrid solution.

Prior to Qualcomm purchasing the technology, AptX was described as a lossless audio technology.


"apt-X Lossless supports high-definition audio up to 96 kHz sampling rates and sample resolutions up to 24 bits. The codec optionally permits a “hybrid” coding scheme for applications where average and/or peak compressed data rates must be capped at a constrained level. This involves the dynamic application of a mild form of lossy coding only for the short sections of audio where completely lossless coding cannot respect the bandwidth constraints. Even for the short periods whilst the lossy coding is active, the audio quality is maintained at a high level, retaining audio frequencies up to 20 kHz and a dynamic range of at least 120 dB for high-definition audio."
Click to expand...

Granted there are limitations, but so long as the sound file remains within the constraints of the 96kHz, 24bit, it is very much a lossless format and surpasses CD audio quality.

This is all achievable over Bluetooth 4.0+ which can sustain bitrates over 2Mbps. (Remember AptX HD is capped at around 900Kbps), so well within the bandwidth of the BT specification.
 
I have a 2.1 system in my tiny basement office, as seen here.
Actually thx to the Covid19 pandemic and working home 14+ months I’ve re-discovered stereo listening.
Yea, nearfield setup at ear level , truly the imaging is dialed.
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I’m using a parts express hybrid amp, it has BT 5.0 and my iPhone 11 does ..

www.parts-express.com

Home

Dayton Audio HTA100BT Hybrid Stereo Tube Amplifier with Bluetooth USB Aux Phono In Sub Out 100WThe Dayton Audio HTA100BT hybrid tube amplifier gives modern amp design a vintage makeover. Featuring the best of modern amp technology and functionality, the HTA100BT provides all of the convenience...
www.parts-express.com

Right now I’m listing to this classic album, not Apple Music streaming , I purchased it and it’s downloaded onto my iPhone.
3aba0522fcfb023b2979350b87b82cdc.jpg


But … am I’m leaving something “out”? Some audio?
Should I be hard plugged iPhone to the back of the hybrid amp?

Oh, this just showed up on my screen, but it’s for streaming only right?
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mtbdudex said:
I’m using a parts express hybrid amp, it has BT 5.0 and my iPhone 11 does ..

But … am I’m leaving something “out”? Some audio?
Should I be hard plugged iPhone to the back of the hybrid amp?
Click to expand...
The built in DAC on that Amp is honestly not great @ 16-bit/48kHz and 96 dB s/n ... the Apple lightning to 3.5mm has better specs for hardwiring via Aux input.

Or buy a better iPhone DAC if you want High Res
 
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deevey said:
The built in DAC on that Amp is honestly not great @ 16-bit/48kHz and 96 dB s/n ... the Apple lightning to 3.5mm has better specs for hardwiring via Aux input.

Or buy a better iPhone DAC if you want High Res
Click to expand...

There’s not 3.5mm input jacks, so I ordered this instead to go into the Aux input directly.
Getting tomorrow.
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mtbdudex said:
There’s not 3.5mm input jacks, so I ordered this instead to go into the Aux input directly.
Getting tomorrow.
7749d16f0b274f90fdfb6df4d334244d.jpg
Click to expand...
Or buy something with that has no specs whatsoever 🙄. No doubt it'll work fine.

If not ..

Apple

Apple Store Search Results
www.apple.com

www.amazon.com

Amazon Basics 3.5 Aux to 2 x RCA Adapters, Audio Cable for Amplifiers, Active Speakers with Gold-Plated Plugs, 4 Feet/1.2 m, Black

Amazon Basics 3.5mm to 2-Male RCA Adapter Audio Stereo Cable - 4 Feet
www.amazon.com
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
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Has anyone found an easy way to actually find lossless tracks/playlists, or even better lossless tracks/playlists with spacial? Searching for hi-res I only find a few weird playlists (Apple Hi Res Lossless @rayvandy - what does that mean)?
 
HDFan said:
Has anyone found an easy way to actually find lossless tracks/playlists, or even better lossless tracks/playlists with spacial? Searching for hi-res I only find a few weird playlists (Apple Hi Res Lossless @rayvandy - what does that mean)?
Click to expand...
You can have lossless or spatial. You can't have both.
 
Okay so maybe I missed something in here, but I’m trying to figure out what it would take to run high-res lossless from my iPhone to my receiver. I know I can do standard lossless with the lightning to 3.5 adapter, but ideally I’d rather do high-res lossless if possible. My receiver unfortunately only plays from storage media via usb, not phones and devices.

I know I could get a DAC, but it seems like overkill considering the receiver has one in it already. I imagine if I use the lightning to 3.5 adapter, it will use the DAC in that device instead.

Am I stuck needing a DAC period? Or could I use lightning to RCA or something? Or a DAC-less lightning to 3.5?
 
HDFan said:
On Apple's Made for Spacial playlist:

View attachment 1794797
Click to expand...

Dolby Atmos is AAC.

Music app, especially on Mac, gives sometimes false results.

That said, are you sure that you actually hear in Dolby Atmos when the lossless logo is shown? You shouldn't.

The first time I tried your playlist/track I got no symbol at all (neither lossless nor Dolby Atmos). I've restarted Music app and then I got Dolby Atmos.

I've restarted Music app again and I still got Dolby Atmos.

Lossless icon popped out instead, as expected, when I switched to an AirPlay 1 receiver.

Check how are you listening (via headphones, DAC, AirPlay).
 
Yeah, this. You are either listening to a track lossless, or you are listening to it in Dolby Atmos, depending on your settings.
 
Marco Klobas said:
Dolby Atmos is AAC.
Click to expand...

Not sure I follow why Atmos and lossless are mutually exclusive. For video Dolby TrueHD is lossless and it includes Atmos. The album is labeled lossless and spatial.

Screen Shot 2021-06-19 at 1.50.17 AM.png

Marco Klobas said:
That said, are you sure that you actually hear in Dolby Atmos when the lossless logo is shown? You shouldn't.
Click to expand...

Dunno. It is Apple's playlist so they are advertising the tracks as being spatial. I haven't found spatial to be that compelling. For me the quality of the original recording is an order of magnitude more important.

Marco Klobas said:
Check how are you listening (via headphones, DAC, AirPlay).
Click to expand...

Headphones, via Oppos HA-1 headphone amplifier from my iMac.
 
HDFan said:
Not sure I follow why Atmos and lossless are mutually exclusive. For video Dolby TrueHD is lossless and it includes Atmos. The album is labeled lossless and spatial.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that it's possibile to have a lossless Dolby Atmos.

In the case of Apple Music I think that Apple decided to keep Dolby Atmos in AAC for now. Probably for bandwidth. I'm not a Dolby expert. I see that it can carry up to 128 channels.

I've downloaded on my Mac Ariana Grande's track imagine from thank u, next album marked, as you stated, lossless and Dolby Atmos. I think it's rather lossless or Dolby Atmos.

The downloaded file 01 imagine.movpkg is a package which contains a subfolder Data. The .data file inside it contains, among other things, an index of the various versions (emphasis is mine to spot easily main informations):

#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-256-binaural",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/BINAURAL",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-256-downmix",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/DOWNMIX",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-256",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-HE-stereo-64",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-HE-stereo-64-binaural",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/BINAURAL",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-HE-stereo-64-downmix",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/DOWNMIX",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-128",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-128-binaural",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/BINAURAL",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-128-downmix",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/DOWNMIX",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-alac-stereo-44100-24",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced",SAMPLE-RATE=44100,BIT-DEPTH=24
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-atmos-2448",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="16/JOC",NAME="songEnhanced"
#EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-atmos-2768",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="16/JOC",NAME="songEnhanced"

#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=264995,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=264995,BANDWIDTH=267287,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="d8cb7044e68ba2036c03274d24e70ef6a1c6375b35fce16fae5632f4070007d5",AUDIO="audio-stereo-256-binaural"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr256_bm.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=260511,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=260511,BANDWIDTH=271347,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="eac10af3428251ee2f8c056eb966570d813b967fd5027667c83bf865953a772c",AUDIO="audio-stereo-256-downmix"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr256_dm.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=259294,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=259294,BANDWIDTH=268186,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="1098626e2bc698d3fea380193f55075503656719bdbd2e09647c2ee7be8ae66b",AUDIO="audio-stereo-256"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr256.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=70918,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=70918,BANDWIDTH=75373,CODECS="mp4a.40.5",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="7f82811019138e2e2c0dcb6d6ae14ee0bb30d90dba7831696b9260759d814dfe",AUDIO="audio-HE-stereo-64"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr64.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=74656,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=74656,BANDWIDTH=76988,CODECS="mp4a.40.5",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="ee326e45b1d644ad57f56a20971eca4c967802c57db831bef805ffa4ae30c4d1",AUDIO="audio-HE-stereo-64-binaural"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr64_bm.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=71685,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=71685,BANDWIDTH=77809,CODECS="mp4a.40.5",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="b24912204d3bd110e11669069ed0f3d9eaa20ecdadd241cbaba7d58ce284ea17",AUDIO="audio-HE-stereo-64-downmix"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr64_dm.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=132080,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=132080,BANDWIDTH=139028,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="dfb08389c21b5b8cff34ac9c3ff2ab65cd0eb4ab896eecde483241dab02604db",AUDIO="audio-stereo-128"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr128.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=134888,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=134888,BANDWIDTH=137584,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="d68193e91e715e107dd1b1d76e3779a57b67c4f7ea67c909510add1cb9e23e95",AUDIO="audio-stereo-128-binaural"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr128_bm.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=131847,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=131847,BANDWIDTH=137378,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="2659ce21a0707f412ce382b2c096554c6443d3beb1c51948401e48160d591963",AUDIO="audio-stereo-128-downmix"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr128_dm.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=1650502,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=1650502,BANDWIDTH=1745984,CODECS="alac",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="561e16644b039475f6a2aa0739a2281398f639ee7934180c027ec4042f1bbee8",AUDIO="audio-alac-stereo-44100-24"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr2116.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=450221,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=450221,BANDWIDTH=450191,CODECS="ec-3",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="5ac776f49c9709c22da6c83f603d6354be78b352e9ae3122f6b2043953319443",AUDIO="audio-atmos-2448"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr2448.m3u8
#EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=770212,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=770212,BANDWIDTH=770191,CODECS="ec-3",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="bb1ee4d3bea1c3fb25f0795af98d2b9a25825c28bcab87b05ac383062aee8ab0",AUDIO="audio-atmos-2768"
P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr2768.m3u8

The codecs of the two Atmos versions are marked as EC-3 which is a lossy format. The only ALAC version is the 44.1 kHz/24 bit.

I've downloaded then another song from another album which isn't Dolby Atmos. It contains of course only AAC and ALAC versions.

HDFan said:
Dunno. It is Apple's playlist so they are advertising the tracks as being spatial. I haven't found spatial to be that compelling. For me the quality of the original recording is an order of magnitude more important.
Click to expand...

I agree. Spatial Audio still has to convince me that it's better.

Sure, it's different. This is the main selling point from Apple. The average Joe can easily notice the difference between regular stereo and Dolby Atmos + Spatial Audio. The same can't be said for AAC/ALAC differences.
 
Ace of aces said:
I feel like moving from 30$ headphones to 300$ makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...

HDFan said:
Yes ..... Spending $3k to $6k for an Audeze or HiFiMan set for me makes no sense
Click to expand...

One can be so confident when ignorant. I had the chance to listen with some $3K headphones and the results proved me to be so wrong. Certainly not an 10x improvement going from a $300 set, maybe 10-20%. But that 10-20% makes a much larger difference in listening pleasure. As expected you can hear more detail. I have listened to Ae Ao by Feliciano maybe a 100 times, but never heard some one saying "1 2 3" in the background. Very faint, very far back on the stage, but very distinct.

In the "We are the World" charity track with Pavarotti & Friends he is in the back with the chorus. You can only hear him only a couple of times, his voice overpowering the others even in the background. Now his voice, and all of the others in the chorus, are individual, distinct, you visualize exactly where he is in the crowd, you feel like you are there and seeing them.

It is like the difference the difference that someone who has a sensitive palate would experience when dining at a 4 star Michelin restaurant vs Dennys. All of those complex, interacting flavors vs just a few powerful ones. Sounds are delicate, but sharp in the sense that it is if you were standing on the stage right in front of the symbols, for example.

For those who really care about their music and have just won a million dollar lottery ...
 
I typically listen to (non vocal) classical music and I am 45. What simple setup would you guys recommend? I would like headphones and something (preferably) not so bulky. I was wondering if my iPhone/iPad can send the audio to a simple DAC and then use a headphone.

As always, thanks in advance.
 
Your iPhone/iPad can be connected to an external DAC via a Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter. There're good DAC/headphone amps on the market.

Topping is a brand offering good value for money. It's Chinese (if you don't mind).

Another appreciated Chinese brand is Matrix Audio.

Burson Audio is Australian.

USA based are Mytek and *****.

Pro flavored are German RME and SPL (with optional DAC modules).

Plus many, many other brands.

In-Ear Fidelity lists a broad range of headphones.
 
Does anyone know what the internal DAC of the iPod touch 7th gen is capable of? if it can play 24/192 files natively and output that from the headphone jack, that would be immense!
 
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