Apple Music Lossless: What Devices are Supported?

[MattG]

People believe what they want to believe. (Without being willing to to a real honest blind test - same master, same volume, no knowledge in advance which one is which.) As I've mentioned in another thread, it would have been hilarious if Apple waited three months or so until revealing that their hardware don't benefit of lossless – we would have had so many "Lossless is great, I hear significantly more details, so much better than AAC256!" posts from AirPods users in the meantime. Would have been a good laugh, similar to people who already had bad headaches from new cellular towers in their neighborhood even before they were turned on …

Placebo effect is a hell of a drug.

Oh yeah, placebo effect runs RAMPANT in the audio world for sure. I love people who will buy into nonsense like this and go on about how it "opened my soundstage up" and "I'm hearing instruments I've never heard before" 😅😅 Once you get past a certain point with the quality of components, there are diminished returns and a LOT of people hearing what they want to hear because of the amount of money they wasted.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Just wanted to pitch in that the AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt through Apple’s USB adapter sounds fantastic

 

[cr2]

Why would you be plugging high end headphones into a lightning to 3.5mm adapter which has the tiniest worst DAC ever - if you actually want to make use of lossless audio that you won't be able to hear anyway, at least invest in a £100+ DAC that'll retain the differences.

Can you recommend a setup that can connect an iPhone to an Amp (with DAC) or a standalone DAC? Thanks in advance.

 

[Vangeli]

I do like my FiiO Q3, which works very well with iPhone and even includes a nice four or so inch Lightning to USB-C cable. I’m sure for the money (~$150) it’s possible to get a slightly better DAC/amp but it’s such a nice design and has a 4.4mm balanced output, which was important to me. Pairs so perfectly with my Z7 Mark 2 that I use it on my PC as well.

 

[dannys1]

Can you recommend a setup that can connect an iPhone to an Amp (with DAC) or a standalone DAC? Thanks in advance.

The Audioquest DACs are nice.

 

[cr2]

I do like my FiiO Q3, which works very well with iPhone and even includes a nice four or so inch Lightning to USB-C cable. I’m sure for the money (~$150) it’s possible to get a slightly better DAC/amp but it’s such a nice design and has a 4.4mm balanced output, which was important to me. Pairs so perfectly with my Z7 Mark 2 that I use it on my PC as well.

Thanks Vangeli. Do you worry about the lightning port on an iPhone can drive DAC and then a headphone?

 

[Jemani]

Tracks need to be entirely remixed for Dolby Atmos. There’s no magic tool. Record labels are going back and getting songs/albums remixed. In the cases where there were Atmos mixes done for Tidal/Apple Music they’re just delivering those passes to Apple.

This is going to be hard for Taylor Swift’s early recordings, since they went up in smoke with the fire at the warehouse her masters were stored at along with a huge list of artists old and new. I believe Taylor has re-recorded some of her early work.

 

[Vangeli]

Thanks Vangeli. Do you worry about the lightning port on an iPhone can drive DAC and then a headphone?

It has a rechargeable battery inside.

 

[MartyvH]

This thread is why I take the 10 seconds to convert an album from lossless FLAC to 256 AAC for a quarter of the size for listening on my iPhone or on the aux port in the car. I will not be missing a thing.

Keep your AirPods and HomePods! This lossless marketing is making you unhappy about your purchases for no reason and Apple is shooting itself in the foot at the same time.

 

[Vangeli]

While nice, I disabled lossless and Atmos in Apple Music on my iPhone a while ago; both add a couple seconds wait at the beginning of each track when streamed, lossless often has glitches and Atmos only sounds good on maybe 1 of 20 tracks.

I do have a managed Hi-Res library that I could sync over at any time but that’s extra work for a device that I use AirPods on most of the time. Ain’t no way I’m bringing any of my other expensive audio gear out in public, lmao.

 

[cr2]

It has a rechargeable battery inside.

Thanks again. It will be helpful to many if you write an article about how to listen to CDs, Lossless (and other formats) and give some sample setups.

 

[Sarkany]

It's funny how Apple gives us Apple Lossless but doesn't have a speaker/headphone that can reproduce it.

 

[satcomer]

What about the old standard we had back in Late 80s quadraphonic sound! Men without pants did a song where a kid ran around you! It was supported back in day!

 

[talashar]

Thanks Macrumors- this is the clear guide everyone needed.

Its unfortunate that Apple botched this messaging. I think all of their music playing devices are meant to make the best sound out of what are some compromised situations (like wireless streaming, bluetooth in particular). In the case of the HomePod, I wonder if it is the "special sauce" they use to make it seem more room filling that makes lossless impossible. If it is- that's exactly what I mean- Apple tweaks imperfect source info to sound the best, and probably does to most non-audiophiles.

Re the messaging, if I were Apple PR, my ad would have said:

1. Look we have these cool new Spatial Audio/Dolby Atmos features, for free!
2. Also, for our most discerning audiophile customers, we do offer higher resolution files if they have the necessary equipment to listen to it.

I think at the end of the day they couldn't help trying to sell the higher end audio to people who really would prefer Apple's tweaked imperfect audio instead, and made a lot of people disappointed when they should have been happy to get new stuff for free.

The point is apple hardware like the AirPod Max has the capability to play lossless physically it’s limited by the codec on the H1 chip and lack of bypass. So this is Apples choice I am pretty sure the margins on the $550 AirPod max isn’t so low they couldn’t afford a license for LDAC or Apx-HD for instance and get lossless or as near to dam it. If Apple cannot get ALAC to run over Bluetooth 5.0 they are wasting there time with ALAC on Apple Music as the people who want hi res will be on APX-HD and LDAC supported hardware so will go elsewhere. If your on a DAC at home your probably on audiophile headphones and probably not on Apple Music so who is the customer they want if there hardware doesn’t support there own products

 

[talashar]

Mate - people can't tell the difference between lossy and lossless on £30,000 speakers in a world class acoustically treated studio. With the best "car stereo" in the entire world, even sat stationary with no road or engine noise you wouldn't be able to hear the difference. So no, you're not - just enjoy ACC via bluetooth its more than enough for your needs (that you've been enjoying for the last 5 years anyway).

Don’t know who your listening to but I can hear the difference on a midrange set
of audiophile headphones and cheaper DAC you hear a fuller sound like the whole orchestra turned up not just the back shift. Is it worth the investment for the difference is a personal question but if you have spent 30k and can’t hear the difference you’ve been ripped off or your hearings screwed

 

[dannys1]

Don’t know who your listening to but I can hear the difference on a midrange set
of audiophile headphones and cheaper DAC you hear a fuller sound like the whole orchestra turned up not just the back shift. Is it worth the investment for the difference is a personal question but if you have spent 30k and can’t hear the difference you’ve been ripped off or your hearings screwed

Or it's placebo in your case - seeing as the worlds best mix engineers (who have much better ears than you) can't repeatedly spot it in any scientific blind test ever.

I have posted plenty of links to online blind tests to all the others who claim to have golden ears above and funnily enough none of them posted the rest proving they can.

 

[dougsmith]

Yes, the $10 apple dongle has a very good 24bit/192khz DAC in it.

This is from Apple's website:

Can I listen to lossless audio using Apple’s Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter?​

Yes. The Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter is designed to transmit audio from the iPhone’s Lightning connector. It contains a digital-to-analog converter that supports up to 24-bit/48 kHz lossless audio.

 

[dougsmith]

Higher quality will require a DAC. As iOS devices does not appear to have one built in that will support that higher 24bit 192khz digital audio. If you want the higher res audio via headphones. you will need a dongle DAC from say THX or AudioQuest Dragon fly.

If you want to listen to Apple’s Hi-Resolution Lossless Audio all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz, don’t buy the AudioQuest DragonFly Black, Red or Cobalt. The THX Onyx is the better choice.

 

[JosephAW]

Was playing around with lossless in my car with a song that has some high frequency sounds that sound like silverware being dropped instead of cymbal crashes. Blah, Tried all the settings but it all sounded the same. Then I realized I was using Bluetooth and that was the problem. Dah!
So using the cellular low data high efficiency option was best in my car.

 

[dougsmith]

Yes true:

This adaptor is also available as a standalone accessory (for less than €10!) which means that it can be used by any Apple smartphone or tablet that features a Lightning connector. We managed to ged hold of one to check out its audio reproduction capabilities, and to try to find out whether it is compatible with Hi-Res audio, as this kind of audio output has generally been limited to 16-bit/48kHz with previous Apple products.







The answer comes easy - it is indeed compatible, because it features a Cirrus Logic CS42L42chip, a 24-bit codec that supports 24-bit audio up to 192kHZ with low power consumption, combined with an integrated headphone amplifier that boasts an output of 2×35mW at 30Ω. You can even get a kit from Cirrus Logic, a rapid development platform for Lightning® connected digital headsets, and part of the MFi programme (Made for iPhone/iPod/iPad).

If that's true, why doesn't Apple say that?

 

[dougsmith]

Your iPhone/iPad can be connected to an external DAC via a Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter. There're good DAC/headphone amps on the market.

Topping is a brand offering good value for money. It's Chinese (if you don't mind).

Another appreciated Chinese brand is Matrix Audio.

Burson Audio is Australian.

USA based are Mytek and *****.

Pro flavored are German RME and SPL (with optional DAC modules).

Plus many, many other brands.

In-Ear Fidelity lists a broad range of headphones.

On THX’s website, they say the Apple “Camera Adapter” you have a link to is incompatible with the THX Onyx.

 

[dougsmith]

Just wanted to pitch in that the AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt through Apple’s USB adapter sounds fantastic

I’m sure it does, but it doesn’t support Apple’s Hi-Res Lossless Audio up to 24-bit/192 kHz.

 

[dougsmith]

The Audioquest DACs are nice.

I’m sure they’re nice, but they don’t support Apple’s Hi-Res Lossless Audio up to 24-bit/192 kHz.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

I’m sure it does, but it doesn’t support Apple’s Hi-Res Lossless Audio up to 24-bit/192 kHz.

Lol tell me you don’t know anything about audio without telling me you don’t know anything about audio. If you think there’s an audible difference when comparing sample rates that high then boy do I got a bridge to sell you

 

[dougsmith]

Lol tell me you don’t know anything about audio without telling me you don’t know anything about audio. If you think there’s an audible difference when comparing sample rates that high then boy do I got a bridge to sell you

If someone wanted to buy a DAC that supported Apple’s Hi-Res Lossless Audio up to 24-bit/192 kHz, why would they buy AudioQuest’s DragonFly Cobalt?