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Only in the absurd, sick world of corporate double talk are layoffs called an investment in the future.

What's really wild about it is that if you look at research published by all the expensive corporate consultancies, the first rule of cost cutting is: "you cannot layoff your way to growth". Once you start cutting anyone at all, you inevitable lose many of your best talent - and morale goes down, and you overwork everyone who is still left. Statistically speaking, the expected outcome from layoffs is not growth. The research shows it.

So when companies do this, it is either they are making money and just want to be callous and dump people to boost corporate bonuses.....or the doo doo has hit the fan and they are just trying to reduce their burn rate as they glide to inevitable death or being bought by someone else.

I would think the latter is at play here (pun unintended).
 
The streaming ecosystem has been led by Apple? In what world
In the world where Apple Music has been out less than a year and already has more than half of the paid subscribers that Spotify has. They will be caught up and likely surpass Spotify by years end. Considering how long Spotify has been around that's impressive.
 
"irreversible shift in the music ecosystem, led by Apple." really i thought apple was more a Jonny come lately to music streaming....

Yeah that statement was completely untrue, the streaming boom is directly because of Spotify.
 
I love my Sonos system! The only think I don't like at the moment is the Apple Music integration. Can't get kid safe radio out of it. Also, Rhapsody will list top songs by artist and Apple Music will not.
 
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Amazon Echo has the best voice recognition of any product I have ever owned, it puts Siri to shame. The technology is maturing quickly and I believe the market will soon expect integrated voice control in many new products. The question will be do you put separate voice recognition capability into each product or have a master device with voice recognition that networks and controls other devices. It will be interesting to see what direction the market demand goes on this.

Amazon and their surprise Echo has a good chance of pounding Apple and Google into the dirt in the next 2 years, maybe sooner than that. I think Apple and Google Execs are pooping themselves over this right now and there are probably a bunch of overworked overstressed engineers at both companies burning the midnight oil to try to replicate an Echo.

Amazon has a good head start though, and Echo is an open echosystem (lol), something that Apple especially, does not want to do. I think this is going to force Apple to open up Siri pretty soon, or they're going to be creamed. It is also going to force Apple to start putting microphones into their products that cost more than fifty cents.
 
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Leading does not necessarily mean the literal first to market. Nobody can argue that Apple isn't leading the revenue/profit from the smartphone market. Market share and # of devices mean little when there's little profit attached. Businesses aren't in business for charity. That's a liberals job.
 
Never really understood the appeal of Sonos anyway. The way I see it, the only merit is synced multi-room streaming. If you don't use that, Sonos will offer you highly overpriced speakers that can only be controlled from their app.

I have a receiver with AirPlay and two decent floor standing speakers. The quality is superb, it can be controlled from every app. For me it is hands down the best option to have good quality speakers at an acceptable price.
 
Never really understood the appeal of Sonos anyway. The way I see it, the only merit is synced multi-room streaming. If you don't use that, Sonos will offer you highly overpriced speakers that can only be controlled from their app.

I have a receiver with AirPlay and two decent floor standing speakers. The quality is superb, it can be controlled from every app. For me it is hands down the best option to have good quality speakers at an acceptable price.

You can also leverage your receiver and home theatre speakers with Sonos. You're not just limited to Sonos' own speakers.
 
Never really understood the appeal of Sonos anyway. The way I see it, the only merit is synced multi-room streaming. If you don't use that, Sonos will offer you highly overpriced speakers that can only be controlled from their app.

I have a receiver with AirPlay and two decent floor standing speakers. The quality is superb, it can be controlled from every app. For me it is hands down the best option to have good quality speakers at an acceptable price.

The entire value proposition of Sonos is based on the "merit is synced multi-room streaming". What's not to understand. If you don't need/want that, then Sonos is not for you.

If you do have a large home with multiple rooms and speakers throughout, Sonos is really very difficult to beat. Chromecast Audio is a very possible solution, but new. Bose is about the most similar competitive option. Denon, Polk, LG and others have gone in fits-and-starts.

If you want a single point with "stand-alone" speakers, Sonos is not for you.
 
Ugh....I've beta-tested Sonos before, and have several zones in my home. The addition of Apple Music has been great, as it gives me access to the entire Apple library. The other "similar" systems are terrible. Logitech tried with Squeezebox, and was killed by Sonos. Interesting times ahead...
Bose SoundTouch is amazing for us in our home. We actually tried the Sonos and returned them because two years ago they didn't have native AirPlay for iTunes Radio (iTunes Internet Radio ). Only the Bose had native Airplay at the time meaning with Sonos you could only play your own music library via Airplay. We're going to buy a second Bose for the other room. Sure a bit pricey but so is the Sonos. Not many options still in 2016 which is really weird.
 
Never really understood the appeal of Sonos anyway. The way I see it, the only merit is synced multi-room streaming. If you don't use that, Sonos will offer you highly overpriced speakers that can only be controlled from their app.

I have a receiver with AirPlay and two decent floor standing speakers. The quality is superb, it can be controlled from every app. For me it is hands down the best option to have good quality speakers at an acceptable price.

Sonos performs another function in our home - the appeal for us is not syncing music but being able to play different music in each room from different sources e.g. iTunes / Deezer / Radio all at once. We do use sync when I'm in alone or for groovy party times. We also almost always use the Sonos CR100 controller as it saves going via the app.

Cost wise I thought it was okay but I was starting from scratch - a new amp/tuner/speakers/cable would've been more than the 5 play 1's which all came from flea bay (since added sound bar for TV). Also it just seems to work all of the time with no fettling.

No right or wrong of course and we'll all find what works best in our own lives.
 
I'm still pretty stoked with my current apple speaker, idk about this sonos business..
 

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Sonos speakers are great (especially the new Play 5) for the purpose they are intended, stream music via WiFi to your homes.

All these peoples complaining Sonos speakers are crap and you can get much better speakers for the same money, sure you can, but you do realize that you play compressed music to your much much better speakers, right? Only if you use CD or stream via Tidal you will hear the better soundstage and clarity, not going to happen with MP3, AAC or Ogg Vorbis. Sure you will hear some difference, but not night and day.

I have 2 Play 5's (Gen 2) set-up in stereo, bought just after Apple Music were released in Beta and loving it so far. It is a match made in heaven.

Apple Music is not first with streaming but since it is from Apple, a huge audience are now aware of streaming music and are interested in such speakers. Spotify didn't move the needle the way Apple Music did in just a few months.
 
Sonos speakers are great (especially the new Play 5) for the purpose they are intended, stream music via WiFi to your homes.

All these peoples complaining Sonos speakers are crap and you can get much better speakers for the same money, sure you can, but you do realize that you play compressed music to your much much better speakers, right? Only if you use CD or stream via Tidal you will hear the better soundstage and clarity, not going to happen with MP3, AAC or Ogg Vorbis. Sure you will hear some difference, but not night and day.

I have 2 Play 5's (Gen 2) set-up in stereo, bought just after Apple Music were released in Beta and loving it so far. It is a match made in heaven.

Apple Music is not first with streaming but since it is from Apple, a huge audience are now aware of streaming music and are interested in such speakers. Spotify didn't move the needle the way Apple Music did in just a few months.

I'm very happy with my 6 year old 1st gen Play 5s, they are still going strong, those new Play 5s are getting amazing reviews, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sonos-PLAY-Wireless-Hi-Fi-Speaker/dp/B015MWS9NU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457869316&sr=8-1&keywords=play+5
enjoy.
 
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I'm very happy with my 6 year old 1st gen Play 5s, they are still going strong, those new Play 5s are getting amazing reviews, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sonos-PLAY-Wireless-Hi-Fi-Speaker/dp/B015MWS9NU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457869316&sr=8-1&keywords=play+5
enjoy.

Yep, I have both the gen 1 Play 5s and the gen 2 Play 5s, with two units of each set up and running as a stereo pair. The gen 1s are still a great product, and I have those running with a Sonos Sub, but the gen 2s are even better. I didn't expect the gen 2s to be that much of an improvement as I was very happy with the originals, but there's a noticeable increase in punch and clarity.

http://www.whathifi.com/sonos/play5-2015/review
 
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I was in the market for a new sound system recently and I looked at the Sonos stuff as I do like the features. But the prices are just so high, you can get a much higher quality DAC and Speakers for 1/3rd the price. Do I want lower-quality sound just to have the added Sonos technology or do I want to buy an Airport Express and my own "dumb" sound system and combine the two? For me the answer was simple, save money and get a higher quality sound system in the process.

For me, they've priced themselves out of the market.

I used an airport express solution for years before putting up the cash for a Sonos Play:5. The Sonos experience is far superior to what I had and worth every penny. The two features I would require in a competing product would be seamless integration of my sources (iTunes, Spotify, Podcasts, Radio Streams) and the fact the speaker runs independently and pulls the stream directly from the source, rather than use your controller (iPhone) itself. I only have the one speaker, so I haven't had a chance to try having different zones playing.

SONOS's challenge is that it's very hard to convey the difference in the experience compared to other streaming solutions which are much, much cheaper. So it looks like the market is just not willing to pay the premium, and SONOS hasn't found a way to reduce the price.
 
SONOS's challenge is that it's very hard to convey the difference in the experience compared to other streaming solutions which are much, much cheaper. So it looks like the market is just not willing to pay the premium, and SONOS hasn't found a way to reduce the price.

It's interesting you say that. Is it really so difficult to convey? I dont agree.

My impression of Sonos in the market has been that they say too much about too many things and very fluffy. As opposed to a more disciplined line, which you need if you want to sell something that is more of a leading edge product, especially when target is a mainstream consumer.
 
Interesting. I agree with the last 2 posts...

1) I do think Sonos has a challenge to convey the user experience clearly. Just watch any thread on Sonos, and invariable there will be questions on using Bluetooth or Airplay as well as "why the heck can't I connect the Play:1 directly to a computer". Every single time.

2) And I also think that Sonos' marketing message about "all the music on Earth" is misleading to new prospective customers. It is not at all "all the music on earth". It is "all the music we support via our app", which is a heck of a lot, but leaves many use cases unaccounted for.

Sonos is FAR AND AWAY my favorite tech purchase over the past 5 years. My house if 100% covered with their equipment, including my patio via a Connect Amp. I have ~$3,000 in equipment and am 100% satisfied, and in terms of market research, a poster-child for Sonos as I recommend to everyone.

But I do think that they have a bumpy ride ahead as the market is MAMMOTH and big players (Apple, Google, Amazon, Samsung) are not going to let a market for multiple units in each and every home go ignored.
 
But I do think that they have a bumpy ride ahead as the market is MAMMOTH and big players (Apple, Google, Amazon, Samsung) are not going to let a market for multiple units in each and every home go ignored.
The fact is that Apple has had a competing technology for several years, but hasn't fully taken advantage of it. Apps like Airfoil, Synology's DS Audio app, and WHAALE have gotten more out of Airplay than Apple has. Also, there were rumors that Beats was working on a Sonos competitor speaker setup and Apple either ditched it or put it on an distant "to do" list.

In other words, I have my doubts that Apple cares about this business outside of what they do now. It would be refreshing to see them make more of Airplay, even though it already does everything I need it to do, for people that want or need more multi-zone capabilities. Part of that could be easily resolved with an iOS firmware update since the iPhone is already capable of sending the same signal to many different Airplay receivers. Running two apps and sending two signals would be a much less likely step, but I have to think that market for that specific feature is very small.
 
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No more PATENT. PATENT. PATENT….. IMHO, this Apple streaming diversion helps them justify layoff in advance of hardware competition. Sonos Patents just ran out or is very close to end. Sonos has enjoyed Years of monopoly profits and suing other companies for getting even close to Wifi enabled speakers. They shut down all competition other than home-brew. Then they did not innovate until very recent. I own six Play:5's and love them, but Sonos really needs competition to 1) get better software since it really-REALLY sucks. 2)Lower the price 40%, 3) Open some kind of API that programmers could do fun things with the speakers. Sonos has been closed and controlled far too long.
Sonos is a great product, but with pending Patent protection going away I would guess layoffs are to hedge against the onslaught of competition right around the corner.

Compared to Bluetooth, Wifi Speakers are a whole different realm and enable whole house listening. Sonos has slowly lead the way. But they got old and too comfortable. I am VERY excited for competition to make them create an even better product.

By the way the new Play:5 is absolutely fantastic product. Sounds amazing and comes in the most amazing packaging I have ever seen. Way better than Apple would do. But I would rather have a brown box and knock of $200 from the price.
 
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No more PATENT. PATENT. PATENT….. IMHO, this Apple streaming diversion helps them justify layoff in advance of hardware competition. Sonos Patents just ran out or is very close to end. Sonos has enjoyed Years of monopoly profits and suing other companies for getting even close to Wifi enabled speakers. They shut down all competition other than home-brew. Then they did not innovate until very recent. I own six Play:5's and love them, but Sonos really needs competition to 1) get better software since it really-REALLY sucks. 2)Lower the price 40%, 3) Open some kind of API that programmers could do fun things with the speakers. Sonos has been closed and controlled far too long.
Sonos is a great product, but with pending Patent protection going away I would guess layoffs are to hedge against the onslaught of competition right around the corner.

Compared to Bluetooth, Wifi Speakers are a whole different realm and enable whole house listening. Sonos has slowly lead the way. But they got old and too comfortable. I am VERY excited for competition to make them create an even better product.

By the way the new Play:5 is absolutely fantastic product. Sounds amazing and comes in the most amazing packaging I have ever seen. Way better than Apple would do. But I would rather have a brown box and knock of $200 from the price.


You mean this API: https://developer.sonos.com
 
The fact is that Apple has had a competing technology for several years, but hasn't fully taken advantage of it. Apps like Airfoil, Synology's DS Audio app, and WHAALE have gotten more out of Airplay than Apple has. Also, there were rumors that Beats was working on a Sonos competitor speaker setup and Apple either ditched it or put it on an distant "to do" list.

In other words, I have my doubts that Apple cares about this business outside of what they do now. It would be refreshing to see them make more of Airplay, even though it already does everything I need it to do, for people that want or need more multi-zone capabilities. Part of that could be easily resolved with an iOS firmware update since the iPhone is already capable of sending the same signal to many different Airplay receivers. Running two apps and sending two signals would be a much less likely step, but I have to think that market for that specific feature is very small.
My comment was more open, meaning companies LIKE Apple, Google, Amazon, Samsung, etc could/will compete in this space. I didn't specially mean Apple.
 
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