Apple Must Compensate Brazilian Customer Over $1,000 for Selling iPhone Without a Charger, Judge Rules

[lartola]

Please share the cost sheet you have access to so we can confirm

You don’t need one, just do some simple math. Apple sold an iphone for $1000 and that price tag included the approx $20 that the charger costs (that’s what they sell it for if you need to buy one). Then they decided to ship without a charger but they left the $1000 price tag intact. Aren’t we still paying $20 for a charger that now we’re not getting?

 

[I7guy]

The problem is that Apple’s practices often set an example that others follow. Other manufacturers are already doing the same Apple did and selling phones without a charger.

It seems in Brazil that won’t be the case. I wonder if all usb accessories have to come with a charger, all toys with batteries, etc.

 

[I7guy]

Some people will defend companies treating them like crap no matter how sad it gets. Apple is being CHEAP.

Vote with your $$$. Ask blackberry if that strategy works.

 

[deeddawg]

You don’t need one, just do some simple math. Apple sold an iphone for $1000 and that price tag included the approx $20 that the charger costs (that’s what they sell it for if you need to buy one). Then they decided to ship without a charger but they left the $1000 price tag intact. Aren’t we still paying $20 for a charger that now we’re not getting?

You seriously think retail price is directly related to cost?

Excuse me while I ?????????

Go look at the price of similar 5W chargers bought in bulk via Alibaba. When I last looked a couple years ago they were under $1 ea. That’s retail price after paying middlemen and profits so let’s say the manuf cost is half that. Now let’s say they’re cheap versions and the real stuff from Apple has a real cost twice that.

So manuf cost maybe a buck or two.

That’s some real savings there.

Now look at phone pricing against CPI year over year. iPhone X was $999 in Nov 2017, which would be $1125 on Nov 2021…. Yet the iPhone 13 pro is $999…. A $125 savings despite more cameras, more storage, etc.

Yet you’re worried about a $2 manuf cost charger.

 

[pax-eterna]

I really cannot believe all the pompous self-entitled twaddle going on about this.

OF COURSE Apple should include chargers with a phone...What if it is a new buyer who does not have the luxury (especially it would seem for some of the wealthy folk here) of being able to drop a $1000+ every year for a new phone.

It should be automatically included in the sale unless the buyer specifically checks a No-Charger option.

Down here, it significantly drops resale value when selling a phone with no charger, even though they are relatively cheap, it just makes it annoying for a buyer to then have to go and source the correct charger.

This is NOT about Apple being "planet conscious" - it IS about more profit for Apple.

 

[lartola]

You seriously think retail price is directly related to cost?

Excuse me while I ?????????

Go look at the price of similar 5W chargers bought in bulk via Alibaba. When I last looked a couple years ago they were under $1 ea. That’s retail price after paying middlemen and profits so let’s say the manuf cost is half that. Now let’s say they’re cheap versions and the real stuff from Apple has a real cost twice that.

So manuf cost maybe a buck or two.

That’s some real savings there.

Now look at phone pricing against CPI year over year. iPhone X was $999 in Nov 2017, which would be $1125 on Nov 2021…. Yet the iPhone 13 pro is $999…. A $125 savings despite more cameras, more storage, etc.

Yet you’re worried about a $2 manuf cost charger.

No, I’m not worried about the manufacturing cost, I’m worried about the selling price. The charger may cost $2 to make, but Apple sells it to us for $20 whether it’s separately or as part of the $1000 price tag of the iphone when the charger used to come in the box. If they charge me the same $1000 for the phone without a charger, I am basically still paying Apple $20 for the charger they didn’t include in the box.

 

[You’re not me]

First of all, f*ck for continuing to destroy the Amazon Rainforest and f*ck them again for being such pompous a$$holes thinking that they’re such an important market that they can essentially charge a company/corporation over $1000 for a $20 item.

All Apple will do is charge $29-$49 more to include a charger in the box. Actually, this is what I would love to see happen even if it starts with the next generation iPhone, only in Brazil of course. /rant.

 

[jarman92]

Well…selling the iphone without a charger is basically the same as assuming that everyone who buys a new iphone is upgrading and therefore has an existing charger. Furthermore, the new iphones that come without a charger sell for the same price as the ones that did come with it before ($1000+), meaning that first time iphone owners are still being charged for the charger but no longer get it and have to pay for it again separately. And it’s not cheap: Apple’s original is about $30 for the cable and brick (even more if it’s the USB-C power brick and lightning to USB-C cable).

So Apple has to produce tens of millions of unnecessary chargers so that a tiny minority of people don’t have to spend $30? Seems reasonable.

 

[deeddawg]

No, I’m not worried about the manufacturing cost, I’m worried about the selling price. The charger may cost $2 to make, but Apple sells it to us for $20 whether it’s separately or as part of the $1000 price tag of the iphone when the charger used to come in the box. If they charge me the same $1000 for the phone without a charger, I am basically still paying Apple $20 for the charger they didn’t include in the box.

Why on earth would you buy a single-port charger from Apple for $20?

That seems kinda silly when there are so many other multiport charger options such as Anker which will work for all sorts of devices for many years and many generations of different devices.

Can’t remember the last time I used any included single port USB charger from any device. So much waste sitting in drawers never to be used.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Nothing works with that??
Scam adapter??
is the phone dead to this day??



I’m genuinely curious. I’m not sure from your message. Wishing you the best!

I was traveling and needed a new phone cause the old one (iPhone 6) broke. There are plenty of regular USB ports on various wall outlets and whatever, but not USB-C. When I got home, battery was 1%, but I have an old charging cable and adaptors there.

The phone is fine now. Idk what happened to the USB-C to Lightning adaptor that came with it; I probably threw it away.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

You don’t need one, just do some simple math. Apple sold an iphone for $1000 and that price tag included the approx $20 that the charger costs (that’s what they sell it for if you need to buy one). Then they decided to ship without a charger but they left the $1000 price tag intact. Aren’t we still paying $20 for a charger that now we’re not getting?

Pricing isn't that simple. They price at whatever they can "get away with" = at whatever point raising or lowering the price would result in lower profit. Cost is only one of many factors in that.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

You seriously think retail price is directly related to cost?

Excuse me while I ?????????

Go look at the price of similar 5W chargers bought in bulk via Alibaba. When I last looked a couple years ago they were under $1 ea. That’s retail price after paying middlemen and profits so let’s say the manuf cost is half that. Now let’s say they’re cheap versions and the real stuff from Apple has a real cost twice that.

So manuf cost maybe a buck or two.

That’s some real savings there.

Now look at phone pricing against CPI year over year. iPhone X was $999 in Nov 2017, which would be $1125 on Nov 2021…. Yet the iPhone 13 pro is $999…. A $125 savings despite more cameras, more storage, etc.

Yet you’re worried about a $2 manuf cost charger.

Not fond of the ridicule, but this is right.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

I still don't understand these specious arguments that you just use the charger from your old phone. Does everyone who buys a new phone throw away the old one?

Even if they do, do they not want multiple places from which to charge their new phone?

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Cool!

If Apple donated the profits they made from unbundling the chargers and upselling people on boxed chargers to environmental causes and organizations, I’d believe them,
Of course they won’t, so it’s just a sad excuse for a money grab…

Or if they gave the charger for free to any iPhone buyer who asked. Or at least at-cost instead of 10X markup. There's no reason to trust a corp is taking the high road if it also happens to profit them short-term.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

You don't know that.

Do you know whether Apple would have increased the price of the iPhone if they were still including the charger? No, you don't.

Look up how much a non-Apple charger costs at retail price, and you get a very loose upper bound for how much it costs to make one. It's a tiny cost. There's no way it matters.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Apple earned $30B in worldwide net profit last quarter. Thats $333M in profit every day. I think they should be able to afford hiring people in each country they do business in to help out with region-specific regulations.

Idk, some laws are vague and/or selectively enforced, in which case the question isn't simply "are we following the law," it's "what's the cost of following this law and what's the risk of not." GDPR is a good example.

Apple probably pays someone to handle compliance in Brazil. Maybe he/she took a calculated risk.

 

[psxp]

The environment reason was total Bull ****

 

[dbri306]

The easiest solution would be to put a checkmark for on-line purchase for a symbolic charge let say 5 bucks. it’s enough to discourage people that don’t need a charger and not onerous for those who need.

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

It seems in Brazil that won’t be the case. I wonder if all usb accessories have to come with a charger, all toys with batteries, etc.

I wonder if they have to include a charger when you buy a rechargeable battery.

 

[BvizioN]

It’s been that way … forever. There’s nothing unreasonable about it. This not including a charger in the box thing is a very recent concept.

It may sound strange to close minded stone age people having a device without a charger with it, What they don't realize is that everything is under a constant change, including the universe itself. It is the sellers responsibility to make the buyer aware of what they are paying for and the buyers responsibility to understand that before the purchase. No one is forcing these idiots to buy the phone that does not contain something that has literally littered every corner of this planned and there is hardly any household that does not have at leas one. Crazy crazy world.

 

[yabeweb]

It may sound strange to close minded stone age people having a device without a charger with it, What they don't realize is that everything is under a constant change, including the universe itself. It is the sellers responsibility to make the buyer aware of what they are paying for and the buyers responsibility to understand that before the purchase. No one is forcing these idiots to buy the phone that does not contain something that has literally littered every corner of this planned and there is hardly any household that does not have at leas one. Crazy crazy world.

Yeah then you use a 3rd party charger, your phone has issue and Apple blames it on the unofficial charger, how about that?
It's not like it didn't happen already:

iPhone Catches Fire, Burns Teen Who Blames Third-Party Charger

The cause of the fire is currently under investigation, but the teen's family believes a third-party charger, purchased at a local gas station, is to blame.

www.pcmag.com

It’s Official: Third-Party Chargers and Lightning Cables Can Damage Your iPhone - Verizon Small Business Essentials Resources

AuthorNoemi Twigg Typearticle ProviderBusiness 2 Community Image https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/G2QtJ8ZFV9lGrG3OK0LqNg–/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA–/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/sbs/sbc/Business2Community/lightning_plug_flare.jpg We’ve always “known” that unofficial Apple chargers and...

www.verizon.com

Poor quality third party charger at fault for iPhone's battery life? - Business - Chinadaily.com.cn

www.chinadaily.com.cn

You sell an item so picky about charger / cable, you better ship the one that works in the box!

 

[Whathappened]

At one point, it seemed plausible that Brazil would have forced Apple to include a charger in the box for every ‌iPhone‌ sold in the country. Procon-SP said that the charger is an "essential part" of the smartphone experience.

Really?!?! Rubbish!!!!

Dang! Does this mean that I can sue an auto manufacturer for not supplying me with gas for the life of my car? After all, gas is an essential part of the car experience.

The charger not the current (which would be the equivalent to gas).
But still it is a ridiculous law that should be adjusted.

 

[Bandaman]

It may sound strange to close minded stone age people having a device without a charger with it, What they don't realize is that everything is under a constant change, including the universe itself. It is the sellers responsibility to make the buyer aware of what they are paying for and the buyers responsibility to understand that before the purchase. No one is forcing these idiots to buy the phone that does not contain something that has literally littered every corner of this planned and there is hardly any household that does not have at leas one. Crazy crazy world.

Yes, this is a philosophical debate about the universe and its ever-changing nature.

 

[Zorori]

I honestly leave the chargers for new devices in the box. A little better for resale

Still, Apple should've included the USB C charger for a generation or two before removing it. Or offered a Apple Store voucher in the box (who knows people might end up it to buy something expensive e.g. Air Pods)

 

[ninecows]

The judge is basically saying "The law states that you must include your overpriced charger and charge more money and not allow people to save money by buying a cheaper charger that works just as well."

I suppose that means that the washer/dryer hookup cables/ducts are included in Brazil, since in the US those are unbundled items.

This is sort of consumer law gone wrong. It obviously favors local manufacturers, who can bundle items and charge more for them.

Do you really think Apple reduced the price of iPhone when they left out the charger? No. They just decided they needed to increase profit and selling the charger separately was an easy way to do that.