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Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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Apple must let dating apps like Tinder and Match offer payment methods other than Apple's in-app purchase system in the App Store in the Netherlands, or else it will face fines, the Dutch competition regulator announced today.

Mac-App-Store-General-Feature.jpg

Specifically, the Authority for Consumers and Markets (ACM) said Apple will have to pay a penalty of five million euros per week, up to a maximum of 50 million euros, if it does not comply with the order within two months. The deadline comes a few months after the ACM ruled the App Store's in-app commission structure was unreasonable.

"Some app providers are dependent on Apple's App Store, and Apple takes advantage of that dependency," said ACM chairman Martijn Snoep. "Apple has special responsibilities because of its dominant position. That is why Apple needs to take seriously the interests of app providers too, and set reasonable conditions."

The ACM has been investigating Apple since 2019, and while the probe started out as a look into whether Apple's App Store practices were an abuse of dominant market position, it was later scaled back to focus on dating apps.

The ACM has shared a PDF summary of its decision with more details, and MacRumors has reached out to Apple for comment on the matter.

Article Link: Apple Must Let Dating Apps Offer Alternative Payment Methods in App Store, Dutch Regulator Says
 
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coolfactor

macrumors 603
Jul 29, 2002
5,684
6,509
Vancouver, BC
These decision makers don't understand Apple's business model. They are applying old-world commerce thinking. Apple is GIVING so much to app developers, and then recovering that from purchases. So now they are expected to just give away the services and tools for free?

Yes, I think 30% was a tad too high. Apple's position on that is that it's a "standard retail markup", but that's in the brick-and-mortar marketplace, not the digital marketplace. Two totally different marketplaces.

If only Apple had started with a lower digital-friendly markup, would they be in this position?
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
31,049
19,925
Gotta be in it to win it
These decision makers don't understand Apple's business model. They are applying old-world commerce thinking. Apple is GIVING so much to app developers, and then recovering that from purchases. So now they are expected to just give away the services and tools for free?
Or the decision makers don't care. But why only dating apps....that is not clear to me.
Yes, I think 30% was a tad too high. Apple's position on that is that it's a "standard retail markup", but that's in the brick-and-mortar marketplace, not the digital marketplace. Two totally different marketplaces.
30% for a chance to make millions of $$$ (or euros) without any significant financial investment doesn't seem to be to high.
If only Apple had started with a lower digital-friendly markup, would they be in this position?
I think yes. There are those, imo, who believe Apple owes them.
 

Xtir

Cancelled
Jul 18, 2021
186
336
These decision makers don't understand Apple's business model. They are applying old-world commerce thinking. Apple is GIVING so much to app developers, and then recovering that from purchases. So now they are expected to just give away the services and tools for free?

Yes, I think 30% was a tad too high. Apple's position on that is that it's a "standard retail markup", but that's in the brick-and-mortar marketplace, not the digital marketplace. Two totally different marketplaces.

If only Apple had started with a lower digital-friendly markup, would they be in this position?
I think they do, it's the concept "with marketpower also comes responsibility"
apple takes, never gives, but raises taxes while evading it themselves, apple is restricting other developers and with that hindering innovation. apple is supporting totalitarian regimes, fights free elected governments and disputes local independent law where they shouldn't.

They are free to leave though..
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
31,049
19,925
Gotta be in it to win it
I think they do, it's the concept "with marketpower also comes responsibility" apple never
apple takes, never gives, but raises taxes while evading it themselves, apple is restricting other developers and with that hindering innovation. apple is supporting totalitarian regimes, and fights free elected governments and disputes local independent law where they shouldn't.
The above is good old internet hyperbole, but if that is your opinion, feel free to run with it.
They are free to leave though..
Maybe they will. Maybe they will charge developers of dating apps a download fee or increase other fees. Forcing apple to give away it's intellectual property is socialism at it's finest.
 

ksec

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2015
2,083
2,357
I now some may feel tired of this already. But I will help to post the voice of Macrumors Apple supporters here to save them their time to type during their Christmas Dinner.

Just pull out of the Netherland market. It is Apple's devices, Apple's Platform, Apple's Software, And Apple's customers. Everything belongs to Apple. Start a new Smartphone company if you want. Or go to Android.

And for those who are not keeping up, that is pulling out of Netherlands, UK, Germany, Italy, Denmark, France, Spain, ( Practically the most of Western EUR ), Australia, Russia, Japan, South Korea.

Still as of today, I have yet to see anyone suggesting Apple should pull out of US due to its Anti-Trust issues. No mention of India yet despite similar Anti-Trust / regulation issues. ( MacRumor's Apple supporters doesn't care about India I guess ) Apple doesn't have Anti-Trust issues in China either, after all they are investing $280B dollars in their supply chains.
 

gsurf123

macrumors 6502
Jun 1, 2017
358
578
I say pull out of the Netherlands or do not sell the dating apps in the Netherlands. Throw up a nice disclaimer alerting the users that they cannot use those Apps because of their government. Apple has obligation to anyone and can run their store as they see fit.

I see these developer's as greedy. They were happy to pay the $99 in order to publish an App and were happy with Apple's skim for hosting the app and payment system for them until they decided they wanted all of the money.

Another alternative is charging per download/update for those not using the App Store for payments. If you want to use a toll road you have to pay. Welcome to world of wanting something for nothing.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
31,049
19,925
Gotta be in it to win it
I now some may feel tired of this already. But I will help to post the voice of Macrumors Apple supporters here to save them their time to type during their Christmas Dinner.

Just pull out of the Netherland market. It is Apple's devices, Apple's Platform, Apple's Software, And Apple's customers. Everything belongs to Apple. Start a new Smartphone company if you want. Or go to Android.

And for those who are not keeping up, that is pulling out of Netherlands, UK, Germany, Italy, Denmark, France, Spain, ( Practically the most of Western EUR ), Australia, Russia, Japan, South Korea.

Still as of today, I have yet to see anyone suggesting Apple should pull out of US due to its Anti-Trust issues. No mention of India yet despite similar Anti-Trust / regulation issues. ( MacRumor's Apple supporters doesn't care about India I guess ) Apple doesn't have Anti-Trust issues in China either, after all they are investing $280B dollars in their supply chains.
From the bottom of my heart I (on behalf of the MacRumors Apple supporters) want to thank you for volunteering to be our voice. Such generosity and selflessness should not go unmentioned.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors 604
Dec 7, 2014
7,440
9,610
Apple is GIVING so much to app developers, and then recovering that from purchases. So now they are expected to just give away the services and tools for free?

Nobody forced Apple to reduce their previous Apple Developer Connection Select ($500/yr)/Premier ($3,000/yr) programs to just the regular $99/yr program. Nor did anyone force Apple to do a store and make that the singular way to get apps.

There are certainly benefits for everyone with the App Store. But there are also drawbacks. Match Group is quite capable of putting their app on a website and letting people download it.

 

jumpcutking

macrumors 6502
Nov 6, 2020
274
134
Can someone help me understand the logic of these lines of thoughts?

Apple developed the OS for their system and they set the rules. 30% to me… based on game royalties and world wide standards, seem on par with the rest of the industry.

Plus, with the World Wide Web - you don’t have to be on a mobile app to access your customer base. Is the AppStore a great way to get new first time customers - yes! But in that logic the 30% helps cover your NORMAL marketing costs.

— On a real note, —

I’ve been developing something for many many years which, on the political side, would be effected by the App Store policy.

I hate the idea of the App Store limiting third-party purchase systems - because I can build a better one that’s easier to manage your subscriptions, etc… but I like the idea of shared profit. The more you grow; the more the platform can grow with you.

So I guess I’m asking for your opinion on the line? How to draw it? And why is Apple getting flack? - I’m not asking if you agree or disagree but more asking about your thoughts. Why is this a big deal?

Also, any input form a current app developer (who has apps in the store) would be helpful!
 

GMShadow

macrumors 6502a
Jun 8, 2021
843
3,146
I think they do, it's the concept "with marketpower also comes responsibility" apple never
apple takes, never gives, but raises taxes while evading it themselves, apple is restricting other developers and with that hindering innovation. apple is supporting totalitarian regimes, and fights free elected governments and disputes local independent law where they shouldn't.

They are free to leave though..

It never fails to amuse me when insignificant countries think they have the clout to threaten someone.

Apple’s revenue from the Netherlands is less than a rounding error.

I say it’s time some of these tiny places start being reminded of their place.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors 604
Dec 7, 2014
7,440
9,610
So I guess I’m asking for your opinion on the line? How to draw it?

The line is "are Apple and Google effectively a duopoly" (yes), and "are they making products for an increasingly essential part of life" (yes). In many situations, you literally cannot get by any more without a smartphone. And it's hard to have a smartphone that doesn't use the App Store or Google Play.

And why is Apple getting flack?

Because Apple has refused to proactively make friendly gestures.
 

philpalmiero

macrumors regular
Sep 5, 2010
181
181
NOVA
It never fails to amuse me when insignificant countries think they have the clout to threaten someone.

Apple’s revenue from the Netherlands is less than a rounding error.

I say it’s time some of these tiny places start being reminded of their place.
I don’t believe any country or any people are insignificant. However, I agree that no country should make threats to get another country or company to change its policy.
 

jumpcutking

macrumors 6502
Nov 6, 2020
274
134
The line is "are Apple and Google effectively a duopoly" (yes), and "are they making products for an increasingly essential part of life" (yes). In many situations, you literally cannot get by any more without a smartphone. And it's hard to have a smartphone that doesn't use the App Store or Google Play.



Because Apple has refused to proactively make friendly gestures.

I think the biggest friendly gesture they could make is open web notifications. Allowing installing apps to be adding notifications.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 68040
Jun 22, 2011
3,173
3,391
Seattle
These decision makers don't understand Apple's business model. They are applying old-world commerce thinking. Apple is GIVING so much to app developers, and then recovering that from purchases. So now they are expected to just give away the services and tools for free?

Yes, I think 30% was a tad too high. Apple's position on that is that it's a "standard retail markup", but that's in the brick-and-mortar marketplace, not the digital marketplace. Two totally different marketplaces.

If only Apple had started with a lower digital-friendly markup, would they be in this position?
There would likely be less pressure for this if Apple’s commission were less.

I think Apple is a little too self serving in claiming that they are magnanimously giving so much to the app developers. Yes, without Apple the developers would not have a marketplace but without the app developers, the app store would be a failure. It should be more of a partnership with Apple recognizing the contributions of the app developers, too.

Apple sometimes acts like a struggling little company who needs every scrap of revenue they can get. They would have a lot less of problems like this if they were a little more magnanimous. Otherwise these kinds of things will just keep building and spreading and Apple will be forced to do a complex patchwork of solutions and still will not resolve the tensions.
 
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