Apple Must Pay Over $700 Million in Major Patent Damages Case

[GMShadow]

Load of rubbish. The U.K. has been trying for years to get a free trade agreement with the US. Nobody is targeting Apple but if they keep breaking the law they will keep getting sanctioned. The courts are independent of government in the U.K.

The CMA exists and routinely engages in ethically questionable (and potentially illegal) behavior. See their borderline criminal efforts in Microsoft's acquisition of Activision and their illegal collusion with the FTC in America to try and force their Sony-sponsored case through our courts.

 

[russell_314]

Load of rubbish. The U.K. has been trying for years to get a free trade agreement with the US. Nobody is targeting Apple but if they keep breaking the law they will keep getting sanctioned. The courts are independent of government in the U.K.

It would be nice if the US government stood up for US corporations like other countries do, but I don’t see it happening.

Either way, this is a drop in the bucket to Apple, so it’s not going to really hurt them. It just adds a few dollars to the price of Apple products. In the end, consumers get hurt by these thieves.

 

[kiranmk2]

I don’t know the specifics of these patterns, but sometimes patent trolls will patent so many random things hoping someone decides to infringe on one. There’s people that start corporations just to do this. It’s very profitable if you get lucky and you can make millions if not billions off of it.

There is a lot wrong with that. You may not like Apple, but it could happen to your favorite company or even if you start a company it could happen to you. These people don’t invent anything. They just make a bunch of patents of known ideas hoping someone will infringe on one.

To get a valid patent, you have to show that your invention works (reduced to practice). It seems far more likely that the trolls, buy patents from other companies to add to their portfolios. It is possible to get a patent without this, but they are generally seen as weak at risk of being overturned. Any patent which is "obvious" should also be easy to be invalidated.

I don't quite understand what happened here. Did Apple not take a licence because they thought it was too expensive (and not FRAND)? If that is the case, why didn't Apple sue them for breachig FRAND conditions back in 2013?

 

[platinumaqua]

Tim Cook seems to think Apple are above the law. They are not and should follow the rules like everyone else.

Except when it’s related to China. Then Apple rolls over really quick.

 

[dpp213]

When will this happen and resolve the dispute around the blood oxygen monitor on the Apple Watch????? 🤞

 

[russell_314]

To get a valid patent, you have to show that your invention works (reduced to practice). It seems far more likely that the trolls, buy patents from other companies to add to their portfolios. It is possible to get a patent without this, but they are generally seen as weak at risk of being overturned. Any patent which is "obvious" should also be easy to be invalidated.

I don't quite understand what happened here. Did Apple not take a licence because they thought it was too expensive (and not FRAND)? If that is the case, why didn't Apple sue them for breachig FRAND conditions back in 2013?

Yeah, I don’t know the specifics of this particular case. I’m sure there’s probably some 600 page legal document I could read, but I don’t feel like having an aneurysm anytime soon.

Patent trolls win some, and lose some. There’s no real penalty if they lose. It’s like if you could go into a store and steal something but if you got caught, you would just have to put it back. You could keep trying and eventually you wouldn’t get caught.

 

[russell_314]

Except when it’s related to China. Then Apple rolls over really quick.

Well, China has Apple by the balls so of course they do. Not only is it a country of a billion customers, but most of their manufacturing is done there. If China locked out Apple, they would go bankrupt.

 

[Anonymous123]

I’m tired of hearing Apple threaten to leave the market if they don’t get their way. Glad they are at least calling their bluff.

 

[thelion7]

Assuming Apple does in the end have to pay 700 million in damages.

That is about 0.18% of their earnings (after deductions) for 2024.

Apple paying this fine is like the equivalent of me buying a can of Coca Cola from a vending machine because i accidentally left my cans at home.

Drop in the ocean. 😞

 

[ksec]

I believe this has been going on for at least 6 - 7 years? And Apple has been losing every battle but just keep appealing.

 

[Expos of 1969]

If Apple was smart, they would’ve won in court

If Apple was smart they would have bought all these patents before the so called patent trolls did. Cheaper and more ethical than what Tim has been doing over the years.

 

[0049190]

It would be nice if the US government stood up for US corporations like other countries do, but I don’t see it happening.

Either way, this is a drop in the bucket to Apple, so it’s not going to really hurt them. It just adds a few dollars to the price of Apple products. In the end, consumers get hurt by these thieves.

I don’t like Patent Trolls but they exist and are legal. These companies have also sued Apple in the US courts over the years so it’s not an anti-American thing.

Apple are quick to sue other companies who infringe their patents so it works both ways.

 

[Misterioso]

I think I found the problem

Tim Cook is the problem there are patent trolls?


Tell me you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[chrono1081]

Tim Cook seems to think Apple are above the law. They are not and should follow the rules like everyone else.

Did you read the article? This company is a patent troll, this is what they do. Companies shouldn't be allowed to just buy patents and sue people.

 

[0049190]

If Apple was smart they would have bought all these patents before the so called patent trolls did. Cheaper and more ethical than what Tim has been doing over the years.

That would be far too sensible for Tim the bean counter. He wants to keep reinventing the wheel every time rather than buying in the necessary technology and patents.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Why is the UK ruling on a patent dispute between two American companies?

Because they couldn't win in the U.S.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Given that it’s a rapidly shrinking market with a bleak future, and the government there is increasingly hostile toward American enterprises and is growing more totalitarian in their demands (such as demanding encryption backdoors)…it might be time to consider it.

Complete and utter gibberish. Deserves a rebuttal.

UK's Annual sales are about $20B. Sales are up YoY for the past 10+ Mac sales are even better.

OS: Around 45-52%. Android: Around 48-55% - Some data shows iOS has a slight lead. This is one manufacturer against >10 others.

Uk is not remoetely totalitarian. Think you need to get off Twitter. We have more rights and Freedoms than the USA. We now have government that actually care more about people than corporations or lining their own pockets. Note: I am politically agnostic. I think most politicians are self serving.

Hostile to American Companies.. or requiring them to actually pay some tax that the previous govemernt let them get away with for 15 years... is that what you mean?

Encryption "backdoor" is not true. Another sensationalised social media example. It is not something that a government could usa a tool to open up anyone's phone.

It was to Allow access to iCloud data for persons under arrest for specific terrorism and Child exploitation. The data was ONLY released under court order per specific person / case. This already exist in the UK and for many other counties. However Advanced Data protection does not work like that and Apple could not ope that data even if they wanted to... it's completely locked. So Apple have now removed that option in the UK. Please note this really is for really bad guys and ONLY UNDER COURT ORDER... there is no way the government could just spy on anyone... that is not how it works. About 0.0001% of any apple accounts use ADP.

 

[macfacts]

Another patent troll gets a payday.

Apple is the one that wanted to license these patents of their own free will(meaning apple acknowledges they are valid), the only issue was how much money.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Because they couldn't win in the U.S.A

Why is the UK ruling on a patent dispute between two American companies?

Nope:

Optis Cellular Technology sued Apple for the infringement of its UK patents. Patent rights are territorial, meaning they are granted and enforceable only within the jurisdiction of the country that issued them.

Optis held UK designations of its European patents, which are treated as national UK patents for enforcement purposes. These UK patents were allegedly being infringed by Apple's products sold in the UK

While the initial infringement claim was based on UK patents, Optis sought a global Fair, Reasonable, and Non-Discriminatory (FRAND) license from the UK court for its portfolio of Standard Essential Patents (SEPs)

The UK courts have, in previous cases (like Unwired Planet v Huawei), established their willingness to determine the terms of a global FRAND license when UK patents are involved and the implementer (Apple in this case) has a sufficient connection to the UK market. The rationale is to avoid piecemeal litigation across multiple jurisdictions and to set a single, efficient licensing framework.

 

[sw1tcher]

Apple had previously argued that the royalty rates proposed by Optis were excessive and not compliant with FRAND principles. In a statement provided to Reuters, Apple said "We are disappointed by this decision and plan to appeal."

Optis makes no products and their sole business is to sue companies using patents they buy. We will continue to defend against their attempts to extract unreasonable payments.

There is a lot wrong with that. You may not like Apple, but it could happen to your favorite company or even if you start a company it could happen to you. These people don’t invent anything. They just make a bunch of patents of known ideas hoping someone will infringe on one.

These companies come up with ideas, patent it, and if someone wants to use that idea, they should pay to license it.

Qualcomm does this. ARM Holdings does this. Why hasn't Apple complained about ARM Holdings not making any product? Could it be because Apple was a co-founder of ARM and owns shares in the company?

 

[OGdrknight]

Patent Troll strikes again! It only took 6 years to get a payout!

Add another year or two after Apple appeals.

 

[webbuzz]

When will this happen and resolve the dispute around the blood oxygen monitor on the Apple Watch????? 🤞

Trial is scheduled for sometime in the Fall, most likely get pushed into 2026.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Haha, now you know how Samsung feels when you patent trolled them for their tablet which you said looked like and iPad. I found that to be F#cking ridiculous since I owned both an iPad 2 and the first Galaxy Tab. What goes around comes around.

 

[0049190]

Nope:

Optis Cellular Technology sued Apple for the infringement of its UK patents. Patent rights are territorial, meaning they are granted and enforceable only within the jurisdiction of the country that issued them.

Optis held UK designations of its European patents, which are treated as national UK patents for enforcement purposes. These UK patents were allegedly being infringed by Apple's products sold in the UK

While the initial infringement claim was based on UK patents, Optis sought a global Fair, Reasonable, and Non-Discriminatory (FRAND) license from the UK court for its portfolio of Standard Essential Patents (SEPs)

The UK courts have, in previous cases (like Unwired Planet v Huawei), established their willingness to determine the terms of a global FRAND license when UK patents are involved and the implementer (Apple in this case) has a sufficient connection to the UK market. The rationale is to avoid piecemeal litigation across multiple jurisdictions and to set a single, efficient licensing framework.

Thanks for that. This information should have been included in the original article.

 

[cjsuk]

Why is the UK ruling on a patent dispute between two American companies?

Because Optis is a bastard patent troll.