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Optis makes no products and their sole business is to sue companies using patents they buy
Pure conjecture. It’s Optus’ patent and they can choose to or not to develop products; Apple will no doubt be the owner of hundreds, potentially thousands of patents that never see the light of day, but would have the equivalent of a territorial army defending them if a smaller company infringed on them.

By Apple’s logic, I could own a blender and choose not to use it, but it would be perfectly acceptable for Tim Cook to steal it just because I haven’t made any smoothies.
 
Yeah, Tim Cook is the problem. When he took the reins at Apple on August 24, 2011, its market capitalization was $350 Billion. Today, May 1, 2025, Apple's market capitalization is $3.2 Trillion. Please tell me what the problem is.
Apple was a steaming locomotive when Tim Cook took over. True he has increased sales by simply doing more of the same and expanding into new countries but let’s be honest he didn’t create this locomotive and doesn’t deserve the plaudits. Steve Jobs handed him the greatest legacy any CEO has ever been handed in history. All Tim Cook had to do was not screw it up.
 
Given that it’s a rapidly shrinking market with a bleak future, and the government there is increasingly hostile toward American enterprises and is growing more totalitarian in their demands (such as demanding encryption backdoors)…it might be time to consider it.
Given the UK is one of Apple's largest iPhone markets in Europe, I doubt very much that would happen. Just follow the law and they won't have these problems.
 
IMO, the problem is that somebody can patent an idea and not a thing; the idea may not even work. Where is the proof that the idea will work unless something is created. But when somebody figures out how to do it, the patent trolls come out to sue.
 
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..."Apple had previously expressed concern that an unfavorable royalty ruling could constitute grounds for exiting the UK market..."

Nice little country you have here. It'd be a shame if anything happened to it.
 
Milking the crap out of its customers with rip off SSD and RAM prices that are orders of magnitude more than they should be, that's the problem.

He may have made money, but at the expense of everyone else, customers and not paying for using patents.
You're missing the purpose of Apple as a publicly traded corporation. The purpose is to make money for its owners. The owners are its shareholders, including me. And Tim Cook is way better at that than Steve Jobs, John Sculley, Gil Amelio or Michael Spindler. Apple is not ripping you or anyone else off. You have a choice: If you don't like Apple's prices, buy something else. If you can't cope with a capitalist country, you have TWO choices: work to change America into a communist country where the government owns everything (think that would lower prices on iPhones?), or leave for a country more suited to your sensibilities.

Complaining without solutions is just peeing into the wind.
 
Why not? I get the hate against patent trolls, but having a market for patents is—at least arguably/in theory—something that promotes innovation. Do you think inventors should not be allowed to monetize their inventions? What system would you propose in the alternative?

In no universe does it promote innovation, it stifles it actually and thats been show time and time again. Since you appear to not understand what a patent troll is (I'm not being snarky I can tell by your post) I'll explain. They do not invent anything, they are not creators, they are just a bunch of rich people who buy up vague patents and then use those patents to sue people actually creating things.
 
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Like it or not they are legal. Given that these patent trolls are almost exclusively based in the US President Trump could probably change the law and ban them if he wanted to.
I’m not saying they’re illegal but just because something is legal or illegal doesn’t mean it’s right. There have been many things that were legal in the past that weren’t right. The law should be changed, but I don’t think it’ll happen.


You make a valid point but this problem exists because the US loves litigation. I don’t know if Trump could simply ban these companies but I know nobody else could given that they are all based in the US.
I don’t think he has a dog in this fight or really cares that much. He has so many issues going on. This is probably at the bottom of the list that’s on the bottom of the list.


Many great inventions (and patents covering those inventions) are the product of scientific research, including academic researchers who never have any role in product manufacturing. I don't think it makes sense to limit the ability to patent an invention only to those who manufacture products.
I support this. If you invent a better wheel than you should be able to patent it and license it out. I don’t think patent protection should not be exclusive to manufacturers. There’s a difference between someone legitimately inventing or designing something and a corporation holding patents just to sue people. We need a system that rewards those that come up with designs and ideas. That’s the purpose of patents. If I create this new tire that holds air instead of a solid piece of rubber, I should be rewarded for that. Other companies shouldn’t just be able to copy it.
 
Yeah, Tim Cook is the problem. When he took the reins at Apple on August 24, 2011, its market capitalization was $350 Billion. Today, May 1, 2025, Apple's market capitalization is $3.2 Trillion. Please tell me what the problem is.
Just because you can steal money, does not make one a good leader. If you added in the Cartels and the politicians, Cook would be a small fry.
 
That doesn't leave me any the wiser. How do UK courts have any jurisdiction over this?
My best guess is this...
The dispute centers on whether Apple breached its obligations to license the patents on FRAND (fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory) terms, which are required under international standards for the use of essential wireless technology.
And because Optis filed the lawsuit in London.

They should have filed in Texas, IMO. Texas courts have long favored patent trolls holders in these cases. And because Texas vs All Y'all.🤠
 
In no universe does it promote innovation, it stifles it actually and thats been show time and time again. Since you appear to not understand what a patent troll is (I'm not being snarky I can tell by your post) I'll explain. They do not invent anything, they are not creators, they are just a bunch of rich people who buy up vague patents and then use those patents to sue people actually creating things.
With all due respect, I have a pretty good understanding of NPEs, having evaluated many potential transactions with or involving NPEs. (NPE is the industry term of art for patent trolls.) Your explanation does not actually rebut my comment.

Whom do you think NPEs buy their patents from? Inventors. Why do you think inventors are selling their patents to NPEs? Because they've determined it's the best way to monetize their patents (one reason for that might be because the NPE, unlike an individual inventor, has much more negotiating power because it has the resources to enforce its patents when they are infringed). How do you incentivize innovation? By allowing innovators to profit from their innovations.

Unlike NPEs, most inventors would have neither the wherewithal nor the resources to go up against an infringing party and ensure their property rights are respected. In many cases, based on my own experience, the inventors retain an economic interest in the patent (in part, this is for practical and somewhat cynical reasons, because juries are much more likely to be sympathetic to the plaintiff if the inventor participates in the trial).

You reference to "vague patents" is not actually a complaint about patent trolls because vague patents are not exclusive to patent trolls. Companies like Apple and Samsung hold vague patents too, and are not afraid to wield them to intimidate competitors. If you want to address the issue of vague patents, you should address your complaints to the USPTO (if you're in the US) or whatever is the governing body in your jurisdiction. The example in this article is very obviously a patent that was held up by the courts—you can assume that it was not so vague as to be struck down. Apple just thought they could get away with infringing it without compensating its owner.

"they are just a bunch of rich people who buy up vague patents and then use those patents to sue people actually creating things" - Sure, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing (for the reasons set out above). For what it's worth, big wealthy companies do this too, even with patents that they are not using.
 
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My best guess is this...

And because Optis filed the lawsuit in London.

They should have filed in Texas, IMO. Texas courts have long favored patent trolls holders in these cases. And because Texas vs All Y'all.🤠

A more complete explanation was provided by Onelifenofear:
Nope:

Optis Cellular Technology sued Apple for the infringement of its UK patents. Patent rights are territorial, meaning they are granted and enforceable only within the jurisdiction of the country that issued them.

Optis held UK designations of its European patents, which are treated as national UK patents for enforcement purposes. These UK patents were allegedly being infringed by Apple's products sold in the UK

While the initial infringement claim was based on UK patents, Optis sought a global Fair, Reasonable, and Non-Discriminatory (FRAND) license from the UK court for its portfolio of Standard Essential Patents (SEPs)

The UK courts have, in previous cases (like Unwired Planet v Huawei), established their willingness to determine the terms of a global FRAND license when UK patents are involved and the implementer (Apple in this case) has a sufficient connection to the UK market. The rationale is to avoid piecemeal litigation across multiple jurisdictions and to set a single, efficient licensing framework.
 
I support this. If you invent a better wheel than you should be able to patent it and license it out. I don’t think patent protection should not be exclusive to manufacturers. There’s a difference between someone legitimately inventing or designing something and a corporation holding patents just to sue people. We need a system that rewards those that come up with designs and ideas. That’s the purpose of patents. If I create this new tire that holds air instead of a solid piece of rubber, I should be rewarded for that. Other companies shouldn’t just be able to copy it.
I think we generally agree about what the world should look like: we both want a system that allows those that come up with ideas to reap the benefits. I tend to think that so-called patent trolls (in the industry, the term of art is Non-Practicing Entities, or NPEs) have a role in that system. The reward inventors get from their innovation is valuable property (a patent) that they can monetize, not simply a piece of paper. NPEs are companies that buy those patents because they have superior ability and resources to maximize the value of those patents as compared to the inventors. Inventors want to invent, they don't want to spend their time negotiating licensing agreements or, in the event of infringement, going after the infringers. That's why we allow them to sell their patents.
 
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Apple will never pay Optis $700 million. They will countersue, and the judgement will either be overturned, or will be settled for way less than half that. Optis doesn't have the money to fight a protracted legal battel with Apple. Apple has the money to fight a protracted legal battle with Optis.
This is the endgame, not the beginning. UK courts are openly hostile to American companies and in this case they chose to ignore that the patents licensing charged to Apple was greater than other companies, which means the patent trolls did not comply with the fair licensing... but UK chooses to ignore that and somehow increase tenfold a penalty just to strike at a big American company. It is a farce.

But then the EU made Apple Pay how much to Ireland, even when Ireland said that Apple owed them nothing?

Europe is doomed on so many levels.
 
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These companies come up with ideas, patent it, and if someone wants to use that idea, they should pay to license it.

Qualcomm does this. ARM Holdings does this. Why hasn't Apple complained about ARM Holdings not making any product? Could it be because Apple was a co-founder of ARM and owns shares in the company?
Apple was a co-founder of its competitor Acorn? Seriously?

Sure, they both used to build 6502-based computers, but so did Commodore and Atari, and I've never heard anybody claim Apple co-founded those.
 
I think I found the problem

Tim-Cook.jpg
Indeed, many of us know this.
Unlike Steve who was the visionary that loved to create the products with much assistance from those around him.
Tim is only interested in making money at the expense of all else.

Great for the Company, Great for Investors, but a crying shame for Apple the tech company to develop interesting and new tech. Not just a tony tweak and minor colour change from last years model.
 
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Apple was a co-founder of its competitor Acorn? Seriously?

Sure, they both used to build 6502-based computers, but so did Commodore and Atari, and I've never heard anybody claim Apple co-founded those.

Arm was officially founded as a company in November 1990 as Advanced RISC Machines Ltd, which was a joint venture between Acorn Computers, Apple Computer (now Apple Inc.), and VLSI Technology (now NXP Semiconductors N.V).
 
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Arm was officially founded as a company in November 1990 as Advanced RISC Machines Ltd, which was a joint venture between Acorn Computers, Apple Computer (now Apple Inc.), and VLSI Technology (now NXP Semiconductors N.V).
That's NOT where the Acorn RISC Machine chip was invented.


The first ARM chip was developed in 1985.

As your article notes, Apple wasn't there until 1990.
 
How could we improve this? One option is to require lawsuits like this to be successful in at least 2/3 different jurisdictions -- one picked by the prosecuting side, one by the defense side, and one picked by an fully independent arbitrator.
It has been suggested before that it be required of a company to be producing/selling something that uses the owned patent in order to have grounds to litigate it. I might suggest adding a limitation that the ORIGINATOR of the Patent (i.e. the inventor) is exempt, so they can freely license and enforce their patent without needing the resources to become a manufacturer.
 
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