Apple Must Repay $14.5 Billion in Back Taxes, EU Commission Rules

[Tubamajuba]

The level of mis understanding is palpable! The public of Europe are not happy with Corporations being given ILLEGAL tax law favours whilst they are facing increasing prices and austerity measures. And hence the EC under public pressure and knowing it has public support has investigated and is investigating these corporations including Apple, of which it HAS concluded DID BREAK THE LAW.
What is so hard to understand? Apple and Ireland broke the law, now the money will have to be paid back.

Your second paragraph contradicts your first one?
[doublepost=1472564218][/doublepost]

In what world is knowingly and deliberately setting up fake company headquarters that don't exist to put all your global profits bar one country, America, through with the sole purpose of not paying any tax on it, a misrepresentation of the country your fake companies are set up in tax laws?
That's what they have done here. Apple really has zero argument here, they are in no way shape or form innocent, it's like saying Apple didn't realise it hat to pay taxes!

What Apple did was set up two companies based in Ireland, they then set up fake headquarters for these companies 'off shore' from Ireland, these headquarters existed ONLY on paper. They then put ALL international profits, bar American profits, through these Irish based companies to these fictitious headquarters because under their Irish deal they did not have to pay any taxes from money received by these fictitious headquarters. They then kept some tiny amounts of money in the actual Irish companies and paid taxes on that.
Hence they clearly breached state aid Euroean laws and regulations. Under EU laws, which Ireland AND Apple agree to by electing to operate in the EU state you cannot give clear special tax laws to one corporation that is at a clear disadvantage to others. Which is exactly what they did do.

Under EU law and state aid laws it is up to Ireland to retire early the correct taxes abiding by the EU laws and regulations.

And that's fine, I understand why they're unhappy. But Apple shouldn't be punished for accepting Ireland's tax rate, and Ireland shouldn't be punished for *gasp* making their own laws, like every country should have the right to do. The EU is a joke.

And yes, that said... I don't necessarily agree with Ireland's "special rate" for Apple, but they should have the right to set their own tax rates as they see fit.

 

[cube]

And that's fine, I understand why they're unhappy. But Apple shouldn't be punished for accepting Ireland's tax rate, and Ireland shouldn't be punished for *gasp* making their own laws, like every country should have the right to do. The EU is a joke.

And yes, that said... I don't necessarily agree with Ireland's "special rate" for Apple, but they should have the right to set their own tax rates as they see fit.

When the taxman makes an error, they send you an adjustment.

 

[jennyp]

The EU is a democracy.

The EU Commission, its executive body, is not a democracy. No-one elects them, they're appointed.

 

[cube]

The EU Commission, its executive body, is not a democracy. No-one elects them, they're appointed.

It is formed according to the governments elected in each country.

Similarly to how a Prime Minister gets appointed.

 

[Tubamajuba]

When the taxman makes an error, they send you an adjustment.

Yes, but this wasn't an error.

 

[Otaviano]

It's amazing how easy it is for people to act against their own best interest. Defending a company that makes $1693 per second in profit but can't be bothered to pay an honest fair share in tax.

 

[Zarniwoop]

The EU Commission, its executive body, is not a democracy. No-one elects them, they're appointed.

Educate yourself.

"Since 1979 - - MEPs have been elected by direct universal suffrage."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_of_the_European_Parliament

"The European Council consists of the heads of state or government of the member states"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Council

"One of the 28 [members of the Commission] is the Commission President(currently Jean-Claude Juncker) proposed by the European Council and elected by the European Parliament."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission

 

[leroypants]

Fortunately, by the time this issue makes its way through the courts Ireland will no longer be a part of the EU. Brexit, it seems, was an excellent idea. The EU doesn't work.

You should google to see what benefits Ireland gets from being in the EU before you post again.

 

[jerwin]

How can a country function if everybody pays only 0.005% income tax?

Tariffs, the gold standard, the watchman state, and splendid isolationism.

 

[cube]

Tariffs, the gold standard, the watchman state, and splendid isolationism.

And massive state-owned oil & gas fields?

 

[wschutz]

This is a deal Ireland has made for Apple - not Apple making a massive tax fraud. EU is interfering with the individual country tax system (to be honest I'm not in the details) which sounds a lot like many of the reasons The UK voted out.

Nobody should cheat, but this sounds like it isn't on Apple (get presented with a good deal by a country and accepting it isn't a crime) but more like the country it self

The EU legislation has precedence over Irish one in economical and fiscal matters. With this knowledge any other statement of you falls apart on its own. The EU is similar to the US in many things, but also different in many others.
Ireland is a country who belongs to the EU and is subject to the EU legislation. Apple can ignore the EU legislation... but that doesn't mean it is not affected by it (in fact it is actually taking advantage of it because it is avoiding being double taxed when selling in the single market...).

Apple has made a deal with Ireland that is considered, as per EU law, an illegal aid from the Irish state. The EU allows internal tax deals of its members as long as they don't go against the EU legislation, and Ireland went too much into that (and of course Apple didn't care much either since it was benefiting from it).
Now Ireland is obliged to get all the taxes Apple didn't pay when it was supposed to (a pity though that the EU can only go back a decade... but it is a good lesson for Apple and many other companies who consider doing the same in the future).

Note again, Apple was presented with a deal by the Irish government who is subject to EU law (and so is Apple, don't come here saying that Apple signed something with Ireland, if you operate in the EU soil you are subject to every single law from local one to the EU level).

Enjoy Apple, I can't laugh enough at the face of Tim Cook and many US high level people lobbying to get this not to happen. In the EU, we care about taxes, yes. That's why we have such social welfare. If a company makes money on our soil, it will pay every single penny of tax.

Oh... and you clearly didn't get anything about UK voting out (which doesn't mean it will ever happen because it was a non-binding referendum just for your information...). Moreover, those who voted out are precisely the big chunk of population who miss the old empire times and didn't care about the new generations who are actually pro-europeans (as many companies there who will move out should UK enact the corresponding article to leave).
Read a bit... before stating so many untruthful things about this matter and the EU. Clearly you don't know what the EU is.

 

[maxsix]

Apple... "it's Magical and Revolutionary"

 

[apolloa]

And that's fine, I understand why they're unhappy. But Apple shouldn't be punished for accepting Ireland's tax rate, and Ireland shouldn't be punished for *gasp* making their own laws, like every country should have the right to do. The EU is a joke.

And yes, that said... I don't necessarily agree with Ireland's "special rate" for Apple, but they should have the right to set their own tax rates as they see fit.

So neither off them should be punished under competition rules even though it's blatantly clear Apple gained a clear advantage over its competitors due to the breach of laws? Do you own Apple shares? Sounds like you do. Ireland broke the law, Apple willingly went along with it, but neither should be punished, so using your logic their is no crime as their is no punishment for any crimes.

Apple has to pay, Ireland has to be punished, they BOTH knew the laws and regulations and they BOTH chose to ignore then and breach them. Now the pied piper is calling..
[doublepost=1472581594][/doublepost]

The EU legislation has precedence over Irish one in economical and fiscal matters. With this knowledge any other statement of you falls apart on its own. The EU is similar to the US in many things, but also different in many others.
Ireland is a country who belongs to the EU and is subject to the EU legislation. Apple can ignore the EU legislation... but that doesn't mean it is not affected by it (in fact it is actually taking advantage of it because it is avoiding being double taxed when selling in the single market...).

Apple has made a deal with Ireland that is considered, as per EU law, an illegal aid from the Irish state. The EU allows internal tax deals of its members as long as they don't go against the EU legislation, and Ireland went too much into that (and of course Apple didn't care much either since it was benefiting from it).
Now Ireland is obliged to get all the taxes Apple didn't pay when it was supposed to (a pity though that the EU can only go back a decade... but it is a good lesson for Apple and many other companies who consider doing the same in the future).

Note again, Apple was presented with a deal by the Irish government who is subject to EU law (and so is Apple, don't come here saying that Apple signed something with Ireland, if you operate in the EU soil you are subject to every single law from local one to the EU level).

Enjoy Apple, I can't laugh enough at the face of Tim Cook and many US high level people lobbying to get this not to happen. In the EU, we care about taxes, yes. That's why we have such social welfare. If a company makes money on our soil, it will pay every single penny of tax.

Oh... and you clearly didn't get anything about UK voting out (which doesn't mean it will ever happen because it was a non-binding referendum just for your information...). Moreover, those who voted out are precisely the big chunk of population who miss the old empire times and didn't care about the new generations who are actually pro-europeans (as many companies there who will move out should UK enact the corresponding article to leave).
Read a bit... before stating so many untruthful things about this matter and the EU. Clearly you don't know what the EU is.

Haha I've got that impression from several posts on here today!

 

[Kabeyun]

The EU is protecting its citizens. Who is going to gift 13B to Ireland?

I don't know. Who's gifting Greece, Spain, Italy, and Portugal for mismanaging their economies too? I know! How 'bout a deep-pocketed company with a fruit for a logo?
[doublepost=1472582247][/doublepost]

Apple has to pay, Ireland has to be punished, they BOTH knew the laws and regulations and they BOTH chose to ignore then and breach them.

So... what Irish law did Apple breach? You're saying that a lot. You must know.

 

[cube]

I don't know. Who's gifting Greece, Spain, Italy, and Portugal for mismanaging heir economies too? I know! How 'bout a deep-pocketed company with a fruit for a logo?

The difference is that when it's the taxman making an error, it issues an adjustment.

Apple Pay.

 

[Kabeyun]

The difference is that when it's the taxman making an error, it issues an adjustment.

Apple Pay.

In the relationship between Ireland and Apple, it seems that the taxman made no error.

 

[cube]

In the relationship between Ireland and Apple, it seems that the taxman made no error.

According to the EU, it is at least that.

 

[springsup]

tl;dr and OT.
EU policies are by no means perfect today, but it sure beats 20th century's policies and their outcomes.
Even the US is a work in progress, or do you see equality across every state ?

We don't yet know the outcomes of the EU's most serious policies. So far we have had slower economic growth than the rest of the world, narrowly averted economic disaster (who knows what the future looks like for Greece? Already the Euro is in limbo, with countries who were supposed to join now postponed indefinitely), huge amounts of economic migration and rising right-wing and nationalist sentiments across the whole of Europe, rising islamophobia, a resurgent Russia which sees the EU as a threat, and the prospect of the entire block being dictated to by autocratic neighbours such as Turkey.

Oh, and as the article points out (and why the point is on-topic): rampant tax avoidance from multinationals, able to play European treasuries against each other. It's called a "double Irish with a Dutch sandwich" - all European states, who have been convinced in to supporting contrived taxation regimes to grab a slice of a pie they are not invited to eat from.

On the positive side, it's easier to take holidays and you won't need to pay roaming rates when you do. Net win, I think. Couldn't do it any other way than by merging in to a superstate. Absolutely no way Europeans could cooperate as independent nations.

 

[294307]

This is a deal Ireland has made for Apple - not Apple making a massive tax fraud. EU is interfering with the individual country tax system (to be honest I'm not in the details) which sounds a lot like many of the reasons The UK voted out.

Nobody should cheat, but this sounds like it isn't on Apple (get presented with a good deal by a country and accepting it isn't a crime) but more like the country it self

The law is very clear about state aid: EU member states cannot undertake preferential financial arrangements with certain companies to the detriment of others. If you accept illegal state aid, the law provides the European Commission with the power to direct member states to recover it. Apple was the one that benefited from the state aid, not the Republic of Ireland. That is why the law is written in such a way that requires the beneficiary to repay, not the donor.

Apple's agreement with the Republic of Ireland constitutes state aid under European law, which is why the European Commission has jurisdiction here.

 

[Kabeyun]

According to the EU, it is at least that.

The EU doesn't like Ireland's corporate tax policy, which you could argue was unfairly favorable to corporations. Fine.

But please post what error Ireland made in determining Apple's tax burden. You must know.

 

[1458279]

However, Trump is wrose than Hillary. For one reason or other, I cannot support Trump, hence the only choice I have is Hillary. If anyone other than Trump, I will vote for that person.

Though, I am Canadian. What do I care.

Canada should care as the US economy has ties there. Hillary has no clue how to fix the economy, she'll just be more of the same.

Trump will try to fix the economy, but it might be too late to fix it. We might have to wait for reconstruction before we have a great economy. At least with Hillary, we should have a soft landing, but I fear that with Hillary, we'll have a bad reconstruction.

Might be best to break the US up into at least two nations, maybe more.

 

[cube]

The EU doesn't like Ireland's corporate tax policy, which you could argue was unfairly favorable to corporations. Fine.

But please post what error Ireland made in determining Apple's tax burden. You must know.

The error would be that they charged Apple a preferential tax rate, instead of the Irish standard, which would be against EU competition law.

 

[MarkusL]

How can a country function if everybody pays only 0.005% income tax?

For one thing, there would not be money for any traffic lights to hinder commerce and growth!

 

[VulchR]

The EU doesn't like Ireland's corporate tax policy, which you could argue was unfairly favorable to corporations. Fine.

But please post what error Ireland made in determining Apple's tax burden. You must know.

It's not about tax errors - it's about a government subsidy in the form of a low tax rate, which gives Ireland an unfair and illegal advantage over the rest of the countries in the EU.

 

[294307]

But please post what error Ireland made in determining Apple's tax burden. You must know.

Article 107 of the TFEU, which the Republic of Ireland agreed to.