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I am VERY happy with AT&T.

Glad to hear that, and most people, more people than iPhone users, are happy with other carriers.

Bottom line: If you want an iPhone anytime soon, you'll have to take your business to AT&T.[/I]

Or hack it! ;)

Agreed, or get another phone that comes very very close. Surprisingly, alot of the knock offs give one or two features that are better than the iPhone. I the keyboard on many of them is much better.
 
I hope I would get something as great as rollover. All the minutes I am saving for a rainy day are racking up. Or at least apple would need something like my five favs or mobile to mobile. Or maybe choose your "carrier" to call for free. I don't know enough iphoners to do a mobile to mobile with strictly iPhone users.
 
Well, "alternate" negotiations were successful. I still would have preferred Verizon.

Very interesting, though.

I think that if any Verizon plans went through, the iPhone menu would be extremely different. Unlike AT&T which all phones have their own, unique menus, Verizon phones have standard menus; excluding minor visual changes such as color theme.

I think that the iPhone wouldn't be as "cool" to use if Verizon picked up the iPhone.
 
I think that if any Verizon plans went through, the iPhone menu would be extremely different. Unlike AT&T which all phones have their own, unique menus, Verizon phones have standard menus; excluding minor visual changes such as color theme.

I think that the iPhone wouldn't be as "cool" to use if Verizon picked up the iPhone.

I don't know too much about what Verizon puts on their phones, but as far as I know it's all about the phone manufacturer. A lot of phones either run Windows Mobile (hence why they all look the same), Symbian, the RIM OS, Palm OS, or the various minor systems on the cheaper models.

With Sprint, they just dump whatever software Sprint needs to get Sprint TV, and the Sprint Music store. And when I compared my HTC Touch to a friend that had the Asian version it was just about the same save for color and some minor changes to the software... otherwise it was still running Windows Mobile.

I think putting the phone on Verizon would have at least opened the phone up to more possibilities of spreading out into the market, since Verizon is evil, but not as evil as AT&T, and there might have been a Sprint version by this time as well. As for right now, I think AT&T is holding the iPhone back from becoming a product that could have reached further into the market, since it wouldn't be running on that slow @$$ EDGE network.

I love Sprints quote for the Instinct: "Slow ends this June..." it's funny because it's true.
 
I have Verizon and every phone I've used has the same menu.

Plus, I used to have the RZR and my friend has the RZR too but on AT&T and the AT&T RZR menu was completely different. We got them about a month apart too...
 
What a coincidence i was talking to a Rogers operator, fixing my blackberry, and i was asking when he might think that they will be getting the IPhone.

He said two interesting things, 1st that they were supposed to get it for chrismass but name rights were not settled by then and that now Apple was considering starting their own phone service (subcontracting to rogers).

Interesting that this news comes in just after my discussion.

More to come I guess as seems that the rights for Canada have been settled.

Can't wait anymore.....
You have no idea how much I wish they would do this.
and hopefully will have the BlackBerry 8900 series.

or I'll just have to wait for Rogers to drop their prices in the resulting shakeup.
 
$20/month for unlimited data, but $50-100/month for a limited number of much lower bandwidth voice minutes? And then an extra charge for essentially zero bandwidth text messaging?
Not that I'm disagreeing with you (particularly about the absurd idea of charging anything for text messaging), but not only does voice need decent bandwidth, it also needs low latency. You can deliver data packets in bursts in any configuration or delay you want, but in order for a spoken conversation to make sense, you have to give voice traffic a high priority. That extra charge is for that high priority.

I think cell phone rates are absolutely ridiculous, which is why I haven't owned one for about seven years.
 
IMHO too bad they didn't go this route - the iPhone would be a much more attractive device to me (and I bet a lot of other people as well) if I wouldn't have to be tied to AT&T.



This would have been nearly worthless in the United States, as Tmobile is the only other GSM carrier.
Apple could have made a dual-mode phone that runs on both CDMA and GSM like the Blackberry WorldPhone, but that would have been impractical, expensive, and only applicable to the US and Canadian market.

Also, as much as I have derided Apple for this GSM-only and AT&T-exclusive nonsense, there was a big hole in my criticism. If Apple had launched both unlocked GSM and CDMA models, they would have NEVER been able to get the great unlimited-data rate plans that they get with AT&T. As great as an unlocked GSM phone or Verizon 3G/EVDO iPhone would have been, paying $40-50+ for unlimited data in adddition to a standard plan would not have been fun, and Apple NEEDED cheap unlimited data to really be able to take the iPhone to a different level.

Perhaps when Verizon and AT&T are both running LTE on 700mhz would this sort of MVNO option be feasbile.


The new 900mhz (er, is that the right frequency? Whatever all the recent C and D Block auction business was about) with it's regulated openness might give some breathing room for new players, but we'll see.

Unlike some other more progressive countries, the FCC did NOT have any restrictions on the 700mhz auction relating to limiting the major incumbents domination of the new spectrum. They should have at least set aside some regional and/or national spectrum in one of the blocks that could only be bid-on by new players AKA companies with less than x% of marketshare. This would have spurred on new compeition and investments into the wireless arena.

Instead, AT&T and Verizon pretty much picked up all the goods, so we'll be stuck with that oligopoly for the forseeable future.


Interesting but irrelevant. Apple and the iPhone are locked to AT&T until 2012 here in the U.S. Keep on hacking! ;)

AT&T eager to wield its iWeapon
AT&T has exclusive U.S. distribution rights for five years — an eternity in the go-go cellphone world. And Apple is barred for that time from developing a version of the iPhone for CDMA wireless networks. Bottom line: If you want an iPhone anytime soon, you'll have to take your business to AT&T.

AFAIK, that is all speculation and NO one actually knows the terms outside of Apple and AT&T. I have yet to read the article, who does USA today cite as a source?


The only way the iPhone was going to be successful was as a GSM product. GSM for better or worse is the open world standard and has long been my choice for cellular technology that keeps your options open. Verizon's technology ultimately brings nothing to the table except lock-in.

Well as of today, Verizon certainly has a much more extensive and robust 3G (EV-DO) network than AT&T has. As i went into above, I agree with you that it would have been impractical for Apple to launch GSM and CDMA variant iPhones. If they had done so, which would remove the exclusivity, iPhone customers would have never been able to get a decent rate on unlimited data plans.


Isn't Verizon's CDMA technology rather small in regards to the rest of the world? Don't they have plans to transition to GSM anyway?

Yes, CDMA is a minor player compared to GSM, although there are MANY more modern CDMA networks that people realize.. It is NOT just limited to the USA and Canada. Everyone from Brazil to Iceland to Japan has EVDO/3G CDMA networks, But most european and asian countries have more GSM networks, and in many places, GSM is the ONLY standard. The benefits of CDMA in the USA at least, is that Verizon has a much wider rollout of their 3G service compared to AT&T's 3G service.

And yes, Verizon is joing AT&T in moving to HSOPA/LTE for their next-gen 700mhz networks..
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA2000


That's what I hear. Especially if WiMax falls through. Currently the fastest networks in the states are Sprints EVDO and Verizon's but when 3G gets here they will be matched. I am hoping that either WiMax takes off and beats the snot out of 3G keeping Sprint and Verizon on top of the speed bracket, or all cell companies go to 3G and Apple gets smart and puts the phone out on other slightly more robust networks.

I have no hope for Sprint's Wimax even compared to regular HSDPA/HSUPA rollouts. When LTE/HSOPA get's launched, it will probably be much faster, if more expensive than Wimax. And Verizon is also transistioning to a LTE/HSOPA 4G network and NOT wimax.
This at least gives us hope that we'll be able to roam and/or switch future iPhones among AT&T and Verizon.


I love Sprints quote for the Instinct: "Slow ends this June..." it's funny because it's true.

Indeed it IS true.. the iPhone 3G will be out in June!


I have Verizon and every phone I've used has the same menu.

Plus, I used to have the RZR and my friend has the RZR too but on AT&T and the AT&T RZR menu was completely different. We got them about a month apart too...

Verizon has always been known to put their customized POS BREW interface on all their phones. This is so they can embed their proprietary rip-off game/ringtone/mp3 services and block you from fully utilizing your bluetooth functionality for things such as moving pics to your computer.. again so you have to use some paid BS service... AHH I HATE verizon!

but alas, AT&T doesn't have coverage along a major highway that I drive routinely between two cities.... besides of course the fact that I'm on a Verizon Corporate account. * tears *

edit: By the way, I created this for a different thread , but I thought why not include it here if some people who would want the info missed it. Feel free to copy/edit/send/etc :
3gppgsmtrackdk8.png
 
I think most people view cellphone carriers in general as evil. Ask anyone about their service and chances are they'll say it sucks no matter which carrier they have.

I agree, most carriers suck, but most carriers offer insurance for all of their phones, especially the more expensive ones which AT&T has failed to do. You lose or break your phone, your screwed just the way AT&T wants you to be.

Also, as much as I have derided Apple for this GSM-only and AT&T-exclusive nonsense, there was a big hole in my criticism. If Apple had launched both unlocked GSM and CDMA models, they would have NEVER been able to get the great unlimited-data rate plans that they get with AT&T. As great as an unlocked GSM phone or Verizon 3G/EVDO iPhone would have been, paying $40-50+ for unlimited data in adddition to a standard plan would not have been fun, and Apple NEEDED cheap unlimited data to really be able to take the iPhone to a different level.

Indeed it IS true.. the iPhone 3G will be out in June!

Actually, unlimited data is cheaper with Sprint.... it's $15 and it's much faster. I think the biggest reason Apple went from Verizon to AT&T was the need for a new system to run the iPhone on, and Sprints was far too integrated into the business world, while AT&T's was pretty much basic.

As for the speed comment, I hope that a 3G phone will come too, and hopefully it won't perform as horrible as the current ones do. If AT&T gives me a cheaper plan than Sprint currently along with insurance and 3G, I'd switch, but if not, and the rumors turn out to be rumors, then Sprint would be right.

They are actually right... right now, since they have the fastest network with some of the fastest phones I have used, even compared to the Mac OS X running iPhone whether on EDGE or WiFi. By June AT&T and Apple better get their act together, or the competition will catch up, contrary to what the Apple/iPhone zealots may want to believe.

Great response by the way.
 
more american stuff not worth mentioning in the UK!
Thats interesting. You should be reading sites about why Land Rover, Jaguar are now indian and why Rover was bought by the Chinesse...
Or may be read news about Heathrow's Terminal 5, that should be more interesting and more pleasant to read for you I think.
 
Multi-year exclusive partnership at a minimum right on the AT&T site. What make you think there is no five year exclusive deal in place?

What makes you think THERE IS? I'm not doubting there is an exclusive deal, that part is obvious, but the length of five years is what I'm questioning. That is no doubt a LONG time.. In technology that is like a geological epoch! It may indeed be true, but there are a lot of people on this forum that throw that out in 100% confidence and I was wondering what their source of the info was. a USA Today article said five years, but you know as much as I do how leaks/rumors/anonymous comments/etc work. It may indeed be less than 5 years for all we know.



Actually, unlimited data is cheaper with Sprint.... it's $15 and it's much faster. I think the biggest reason Apple went from Verizon to AT&T was the need for a new system to run the iPhone on, and Sprints was far too integrated into the business world, while AT&T's was pretty much basic.

As for the speed comment, I hope that a 3G phone will come too, and hopefully it won't perform as horrible as the current ones do. If AT&T gives me a cheaper plan than Sprint currently along with insurance and 3G, I'd switch, but if not, and the rumors turn out to be rumors, then Sprint would be right.

They are actually right... right now, since they have the fastest network with some of the fastest phones I have used, even compared to the Mac OS X running iPhone whether on EDGE or WiFi. By June AT&T and Apple better get their act together, or the competition will catch up, contrary to what the Apple/iPhone zealots may want to believe.

Great response by the way.


Oh yes, I didn't include Sprint and I should have. They have indeed had great voice plans and unlimited data rates, but as you know they have been struggling and it doesn't seem as if AT&T and Verizon try really hard to match them on price, since I assume they think they are bigger/better and people will come to them for their coverage. Regardless, before the iPhone, both AT&T and Verizon had higher unlimited data rates.
Just imagine had Sprint gotten the iPhone deal! 3G EVDO iPhone w/ unlimited data at a reduced Sprint price!
 
Just imagine had Sprint gotten the iPhone deal! 3G EVDO iPhone w/ unlimited data at a reduced Sprint price!

OH! My heart aches at the thought..... that and the biggest thing keeping me on their side... the insurance. Can you imagine loosing your phone or getting it run over by a car, sending it in to the shop and getting it fixed for FREE! Or paying $50 and getting another one sent to you within 3 days....

I am sure Apple would have found a way to prevent that I am sure.
 
Distributed Objects strikes again!

In short, that Distributed Object broker for iTunes. Makes sense. I can't believe it took them this long to patent it.
 
That was the day Liberty died. Now people that want good technology have to sign their souls over to the Satan himself.

I am on T-Mobile which I guess is crappy in most of the USA but where I am it is good and I actually really like their Fav 5 plan. I NEVER have to even think of minutes and I think I will miss that a little when I get iPhone 2.0. But I was wondering if you could enlighten me a bit as to why AT&T is so evil??? I'm genuinely asking, I'm curious because I don't know much about all this.

All I know is that Verizon has a good network but forces lots of compliance and locking and disabling things with phones. Sprint is pretty small and kind of plays underdog from what I hear. T-Mobile is kind of underdog in most of the USA as well. Is this all far off? So what is AT&T's story???

Thanks :)
 
I am on T-Mobile which I guess is crappy in most of the USA but where I am it is good and I actually really like their Fav 5 plan. I NEVER have to even think of minutes and I think I will miss that a little when I get iPhone 2.0. But I was wondering if you could enlighten me a bit as to why AT&T is so evil??? I'm genuinely asking, I'm curious because I don't know much about all this.

All I know is that Verizon has a good network but forces lots of compliance and locking and disabling things with phones. Sprint is pretty small and kind of plays underdog from what I hear. T-Mobile is kind of underdog in most of the USA as well. Is this all far off? So what is AT&T's story???

Thanks :)

That's just about it for the most part. Sprint is right in the middle for me, and from what I have been seeing in the market gets the best of both worlds. A fast internet connection that costs $15 a month for unlimited service, and great phones to go with it. I hear Verizon charges A LOT MORE, and AT&T's prices compared to their speed isn't justified.

Now, as far as AT&T goes for me and the friends that I know are still stuck with them, they stink as far as customer service. My situation isn't as bad, since I had them for a matter of months on a family plan then we all ditched them, got our own phones with Sprint, and never looked back save for my bother who is with the big "V". You might not have these problems save for one with the iPhone.

- They send broken phones to their customers and only allow you to exchange them once, even if the second one is faulty....
- Okay, coverage is nice, but when it's gone it's gone, even with 1 bar you can't get a call out (most likely just the phone's fault, but even with my crappy Sprint LG I can make a call with 1 or less bars.)
- WTF is up with your prices???
- Okay... I didn't pay my bill last month, I will pay it next month when two bills are together.... NO you cut my service off halfway through second month. I pay bill, no service until month is complete. WTF :mad:
- NO INSURANCE.... I loose my phone, can't get another one, no questions asked.... If my phone is faulty after the first few months... good luck getting it fixed.
- EDGE is pathetic and I didn't even realize it until the iPhone was in my hands. I have never seen Google Maps load so slow, or not at all.

If it wasn't for the service the iPhone would be right there in my pocket, but I can't even recommend it to friends that are thinking of switching... It's a great device, but the service kills it for me. I could deal with all the other crap but not the lack of insurance and the speed. I know they will fix the speed though.

Just to be fair, AT&T/Cingular never charged me twice for one bill, then tell me I can't get my money back, they will just put it on the second bill. WTF :mad:
 
Well, "alternate" negotiations were successful. I still would have preferred Verizon.

Very interesting, though.

It just depends on your geographic location. In my urban area, verizon sucks hardcore, as does AT&T, even cingular is sub-par.
 
Wow, just so false that I had to register and post...

- They send broken phones to their customers and only allow you to exchange them once, even if the second one is faulty....
The statement is so vague but it's one of a couple things. If you buy a "broken" phone new you have 30 days to replace with new and then a year warranty to replace with refurbished. Pretty standard.

When you are sent a replacement, you have 30 days to exchange the replacement with their warranty department and you still have the original warranty coverage.

And I've never seen a "limit" on this.

- Okay, coverage is nice, but when it's gone it's gone, even with 1 bar you can't get a call out (most likely just the phone's fault, but even with my crappy Sprint LG I can make a call with 1 or less bars.)

When will people realize that "bars" are really irrelevant? Sounds like the two phones you had equate "bars" differently. The AT&T phone you had must need two "bars" to hold a voice signal (SMS probably worked with one "bar").

- WTF is up with your prices???

I believe AT&T's prices are pretty comparable to Verizon (it's only real competitor). Sprint is dying and has dropped to rock bottom prices to try to save itself and T-Mobile just doesn't have enough to offer to justify having the same pricing as the "big boys". If you want to have the advantages that the two largest carriers offer, then you have to pay for it.


- Okay... I didn't pay my bill last month, I will pay it next month when two bills are together.... NO you cut my service off halfway through second month. I pay bill, no service until month is complete. WTF :mad:

First of all, sounds like you should pay your bill. Second, they restore service as soon as the past due balance is paid. Every carrier operates the same way on this.


- NO INSURANCE.... I loose my phone, can't get another one, no questions asked.... If my phone is faulty after the first few months... good luck getting it fixed.
You can insure pretty much all "regular" phones. Not sure how all carriers are but that's pretty standard. And, again, if it's manufacturer defect, then you have a warranty for 12 months. Most carriers use the same insurance company so I think they have the same rules. Want to know why you can't insure the more expensive devices? (BB's, iPhone, etc.) Because there is too much fraud (people reporting devices "stolen" and getting a $50 replacement that just cost the insurance company $400-500). So, the only people to blame are dishonest consumers.


- EDGE is pathetic and I didn't even realize it until the iPhone was in my hands. I have never seen Google Maps load so slow, or not at all.

I actually agree with this one somewhat. From my experience, I don't think EDGE is all that bad but it is definitely quite a bit slower than 3G. But, blaming AT&T for this? Did I miss something or did AT&T build the iPhone? ;)
 
Have none of you ever negotiated a deal?

Leverage is necessary. Leverage has to be credible.

Apple wanted a piece of the revenue from each contract. That's highly unusual for a manufacturer in the cell phone business. In order to get that percentage, Apple had to show that they could realize that income on their own.

That's all there is to it.

And for those of you lamenting AT&T... goodness gracious. It's not hard to unlock an iPhone.
 
I actually agree with this one somewhat. From my experience, I don't think EDGE is all that bad but it is definitely quite a bit slower than 3G. But, blaming AT&T for this? Did I miss something or did AT&T build the iPhone? ;)

Well, I'm sure the fact that at the time of launch (and even today, though less so) AT&T's 3G network has sparse coverage nationwide didn't help in the decision to put of 3G. UMTS/HSDPA is more power hungry than GSM/EDGE, but I don't think that was the only factor at work...

And for those of you lamenting AT&T... goodness gracious. It's not hard to unlock an iPhone.

I highly doubt much of the lamenting is coming from Tmobile customers; them being the only ones to benefit from an unlock. Everyone else wanted an iPhone that could be used on Sprint or Verizon's fast 3G/EVDO network.
 
Everyone else wanted an iPhone that could be used on Sprint or Verizon's fast 3G/EVDO network.

Such is life. CDMA just isn't a good fit for a world product, and CDMA/GSM had less of a chance than just CDMA. Anyone that has followed the cell phone industry--even casually--can see that.

Life is full of choices, right?
 

Not really false, just not something that happened to you. Like I said previously, all cell companies are evil, for me AT&T/Cingular at the time was even more so.

Those incidents happened to me and my friends, not you so you can't really say they were false just so you can support your cell company. And in fact, AT&T is the worst company to get replacement/new phones from, they just rather you buy a new one. It's happened to me and my family twice, a friend of mine three times with her Blackjack, and another friend of mine just recently.

You can't really prove that wrong. ;)

As for insurance, all cell companies allow you to insure anything through them, and it works if YOU are the one that breaks your phone as well. AT&T has nothing even close. If I break my phone I can get it fixed for free no matter what model or price. If I misplace it, I can get another one sent to me for $50. I can do that twice a year at most. So that destroys AT&T's reasoning for not insuring the iPhone or other smartphones, everyone else does it, they are just too cheap.

As for the bill paying, I pay the bill when I feel like it. I can wait to do it every two months or every month, just like every other phone company. The problem came when they cut it off halfway through the second month, then didn't activate it until after the month was over (2 weeks) even after I paid it. I thought I said that?

Sprint may be dying, but their prices can't be beat non the less. AT&T would have been as obscure as Virgin Mobile if it wasn't for the iPhone, so that's a moot point.

Every AT&T phone doesn't work with one bar, I haven't seen one that doesn't.

You're right about the broken phone thing, but the problem that many AT&T customers is that they only offer it once or twice before they tell you to buy a new phone, and you're sending the old phones back to them. Buy a broken BB, send it back and get a new one. Get a broken one later on down the road, they may honor their 30 day thingy, but a lot of time they don't. Maybe they work different where you are. It's a pretty standard thing, but AT&T doesn't think they should do it.

Nothing really false there.
 
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