Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yes.

The Mac Mini starts at $699 and the Studio Display at $1599. The accessory costs more than double, which is a huge disincentive for customers.

It strikes me that Apple leaves these customers unattended and left to other companies. I mean, there is an unexplored market here and Apple has simply been ignoring it for years.

It seems to me that Apple is playing extremely safe in terms of pricing and intentionally leaving a huge chunk of the market, something that is only possible because its iPhone division is so huge and profitable that it can afford to test the waters for years or decades in all other areas.

Yes, I agree. In fact, $999 is a lot of money for a laptop. Most laptops sold worldwide cost less than that.

A Mac Mini or a MacBook Air is powerful enough for most people. I mean, how many people would need the power of a MacBook Pro or a Mac Studio?

I see some people who intend to buy a MacBook Pro or a Mac Studio just to have a future-proof computer because they do not need all this power. This caution is perhaps unnecessary. The cost of computers goes down with time, and future-proofing so much is not really necessary. If a Mac Mini costs $699 and will last 2 years, it is $350 per year. If a Mac Studio costs $1999 and will last 5 years, it is more expensive in the long run: $400 a year.

This was definitely the big hidden price hike here.

Yes, that is what I said.

As businesses, the iPad and Mac lines are successful. The Mac line was not originally successful, but it eventually became after the introduction of the iMac.

Now, both of them fell short as platforms. Sure, they can hold their own as platforms. But they are not close to replacing the PC.
1. Laptops have gotten a lot more expensive for anything decent.

2. Apple monitors have always been overpriced and limited. Apple hasn’t cared. Way back when, their color screens used proprietary trinitron tubes with fixed 72dpi resolutions and Apple ceded the large screen dp market to radius and Princeton and the mainstream monitor market to NEC multisync.

So offering a mini (or studio) +third party 27” 4k monitor as the midprice option is not new to apple.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BKDad and Tagbert
I replaced my 2014 iMac with a 2020 iMac not because the internals were inadequate (I had a 1TBB SSD and a high spec processor), but mainly because the screen had developed bad image retention around the edges, and I wanted the better P3 gamut for photo-editing. A year later the internals were no longer supported by the latest MacOS.
So in a sense the screen failed me slightly earlier than the internals.
Just to point out that the common wisdom that screens last much longer than computers is not always true.
I understand your point, but I am actually unaware of the common wisdom regarding screens - im not much of a computer person. I am speaking from direct experience - I bought 2 top spec iMacs and they both died long before the screens - I don't know if this is common, it's just my experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: richest
I think Apple is nuts to announce it so close after launching the Apple Studio Display,
ISTR the rumours were two displays: a successor for the XDR Pro and a new "affordable" display.

If there's still a display in the pipeline, odds are it's the "new" XDR Pro and will be 2-4 times the price of the Studio display and launched alongside whatever the new Mac Pro (which Apple have now teased) is going to be.

In fact, from all I have read, the Macintosh was very successful at the beginning, but then sales declined. The computer was very compelling but also underpowered for its price.

I don't think the Mac ever sold in numbers to rival IBM et. al. However, it was unique (for anything close to the price) in having a graphical user interface, a powerful 68000 chip with a 32-bit instruction set, and a 72ppi screen with high-res bitmapped graphics (...it looks like a tiny screen today, but the resolution was high for the time: 512x342 when the typical screen was 320x200 or 540x200, limited by the low vertical resolution of TV-standard electronics).

What really carved the Mac a niche was the introduction of the LaserWriter printer and PagerMaker software in 1985, which pretty much invented the whole "Desktop Publishing" thing. Although the printer was too expensive for the typical single user, it had built in, 'it just works', Localtalk networking, so by the time you set up a workgroup with half-a-dozen Macs sharing a Laserwriter the cost was very reasonable - especially since the IBM PCs of the day really wasn't up to DTP work, so the "competition" was having your people call Xerox's people to lease something incredibly expensive...

Apple's main business was still the Apple II.
Which was in trouble by 1984 after the Apple III became one of the most notorious failures in the IT industry. Apple II had got everywhere - in the US at least (we had far cheaper homegrown alternatives here in the UK) - so Apple did keep making money from Apple II successors for years, but they'd lost the initiative.

At the time the original Macintosh launched, there were several competitors in the computing arena. IBM, Apple, Commodore, Microsoft.
By 1984, the IBM PC had come to dominate "serious" personal computing, especially the business market. That's what the famous "1984" commercial that launched the Mac was all about. Commodore, Atari, Tandy (...plus Sinclair, Amstrad, Acorn in the UK) never really got into the "serious business" market (where the suits used PCs and the creatives used Macs) - which was a huge injustice in some cases (the Commodore Amiga had a brief moment in the sun in TV production, the Atari ST had it's moment as a cheap Mac-like system, and was also the go-to system for music).

However, what finally wiped those out including, eventually, IBM's own PC division was the flood of cheap IBM-compatible clones built from standard components mass-produced in huge quantities - with Microsoft, who had cunningly sticked to licensing software to all comers and stayed out of hardware - getting a tithe from each sale to support software development. Nobody building custom hardware could compete with that. At the same time, PC hardware/software was improving so Apple largely lost their "uniqueness" and weren't getting the income to keep up.

Although the iMac and OS X get credit for reviving Apple's fortunes, they came at an opportune moment when Microsoft had completely missed the bus on the Internet - the iMac targeted a niche for an all-in-one 'connected' computer for which running PC software wasn't the be-all and end-all. The iMac might not have worked 5 years earlier. Microsoft supporting Office on Mac (partly to give them a fig-leaf against anti-trust accusations) was also crucial.

2. Apple monitors have always been overpriced and limited. Apple hasn’t cared. Way back when, their color screens used proprietary trinitron tubes with fixed 72dpi resolutions and Apple ceded the large screen dp market to radius and Princeton and the mainstream monitor market to NEC multisync.
Those early Apple Trinitron displays were very high quality at the time, and used non-standard interfaces... Plus, with Apple's main market niche being DTP, being calibrated to exactly 72dpi (1 pixel = 1 point, at least using the re-defined 'Adobe point') was actually a selling point. It's not like the early NEC Multisyncs were cheap (I remember pining for one when I had an Atari ST, for which the alternative was one display for high-res monochrome and another for low-res colour).

If you look at Apple's history, they've often started off with a unique product - often creating the maket segment from scratch - and then ceded the market once viable, mass-produced, third-party alternatives appear. They might drop the product completely or just keep an old model on the books for a silly price for anybody who wants an all-Apple system. See Displays, Printers, Wireless routers, the XServe...

They can always offer something unique with the Mac, because nothing else is licensed to run Mac OS (and, apart from the Intel period 2006-2020, Macs have been based on radically different hardware to PCs). They can only get away with the Studio Display because it's almost the only game in town if you must have a 5k panel. Otherwise, there's not a lot of point in them trying to compete with the low-margin mass market.
 
So in a sense the screen failed me slightly earlier than the internals.
Just to point out that the common wisdom that screens last much longer than computers is not always true.
I bought 2 top spec iMacs and they both died long before the screens - I don't know if this is common, it's just my experience.
I think it is "luck of the draw". Other people will have failed screens (...and in a dead iMac it's hard to say whether the screen or logic board has failed). Then there's the whole other question as to why a faulty iMac should be beyond economical repair until it is at least 5 years old. At the moment, with everything in a modern Mac being surface-mounted or inside the SoC package, about the only alternative in that respect is to get a PC mini-tower made from standard, replaceable parts.

I have to say that, on my 2017 5k iMac, I've started to notice a 'pinkness' round the edges starting to become noticeable. Realistically, you don't know if a particular LCD panel will last >5 years until 5 years after it has been launched. The old CF-lit ones certainly lost their mojo over time.

The problem with the studio display is that it's only the speakers and webcam that sound like an 'upgrade' from an iMac display - the panel sounds much the same - and there is still talk of miniLED and/or larger panels to come. So it's hard to justify $1600 as an 'investment' that's still going to be a compelling display in 5 years' time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: class77 and Mr.PT
ISTR the rumours were two displays: a successor for the XDR Pro and a new "affordable" display.

If there's still a display in the pipeline, odds are it's the "new" XDR Pro and will be 2-4 times the price of the Studio display and launched alongside whatever the new Mac Pro (which Apple have now teased) is going to be.

dylandkt said that LG was developing three new displays in 24", 27" and 32" form factors for Apple. He said the 32" might replace the Pro Display XDR and have an A-series SoC and the 27" and 32" had MiniLED and ProMotion.

Just before the Peek Performance event, Filipe Espósito at 9to5Mac said Apple was working on a 36-inch "Apple Studio Display" that would have a 7K resolution and was presumed to replace the Pro Display XDR.

And last week Ross Young said Apple could release a 27" Apple Studio Display with MiniLED and ProMotion at WWDC.
 
I personally don't see what an iMac has to offer over a Mac Mini / Mac Studio + external display solution, but people still seem to love the iMac.
Current 27” iMacs have a bigger 5K resolution screen and a greater maximum system memory. I think that you could get 64 GB but I know for certain you could get 32. They also offered different AMD graphic cards that may still out perform a M1 Mac Mini, although I may be wrong about that. Mine has an I7 CPU which was one of the more powerful chips at the time it was first released, so it kept up with higher processor demands longer than entry level CPU’s.

It was a good mid level performance machine. Average cost was probably around $2100 to $2300 dollars, with the entry price of $1899.00.

In short, the 27 iMac wasn’t an entry level machine, but wasn’t a top of the line performer either. I am comparing, forgive the phrase, Apple to Apple. The entry, mid range and performance models available when I bought my iMac to the entry, mid, and performance machines in the new M series line. The Studio is the only non-laptop mid level option right now, and at (surprise!) $1899 for the new Studio and $1600 for the monitor you are already at $3500 before you swap out the 512 MB hard drive for a terabyte one and upgrade to 32 GB RAM. And that ignores wanting a height adjustable or even a pivotable monitor.

Today I think that setup qualifies as professional level cost. Maybe if the Mac Mini Stays about $1000 with a M1 Max CPU and it can connect to the new monitor it becomes a decent mid range, depending on hard drive and RAM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: haddy
In short, the 27 iMac wasn’t an entry level machine, but wasn’t a top of the line performer either. I am comparing, forgive the phrase, Apple to Apple.
The top end 5k iMacs, with i9 processors and the higher GPU options were pretty beefy by Mac standards and, on raw performance, were comparable with the base iMac Pro and Mac Pro.... but that cost $3200 and another $600 to upgrade to 32GB RAM (although you could save money by getting 3rd party RAM). If Apple's performance figures for the M1 Max Studio - they suggest that it thrashes the i9 iMac - are realistic then $3600 for a 32GB Mac Studio + Studio Display really isn't so bad, and the possibility of getting the Mac Studio + cheaper third party display is a real step forward.

It's the low-end 5k iMacs - without a M1 Pro Mini/Studio to pair with the screen - that are the loss. Trouble is, the (regular) M2 may be along soon which will not only obsolete the regular M1 but also give the cheaper "binned" M1 Pro options a run for their money. Could be why we didn't get an M1 Pro option last week. Once you get to the full-fat M1 Pro and need more than 16GB RAM then, going by MBP option prices, it's "only" $200 up to the M1 Max.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BKDad
but also give the cheaper "binned" M1 Pro options a run for their money.
I think you’re right. If Apple follows their current structure, the M2 would still only have 4 efficiency cores and 4 performance cores. The M1 Pro would still have 2 more performance cores than the future M2 (6P+2E). So, the M2’s likely to take the single threaded crown and come pretty close to multithreaded as well.
 
Well they definitely lost me as a customer - if my iMac dies I'll just get a used one or replace the parts (last time it died, I got a motherboard on eBay for $100). I don't like the 24" form factor. The 27" iMac was $1799 and had everything I needed on it, now you have to pay $1599 for the monitor, $400 to be able to adjust the height, and another $1999 for the Mac Studio for $3998. I guess one could argue the M1 Mac mini with the studio monitor for $1599 would be sufficient, that puts it at $2298, still making it $499 more than the 27" iMac, plus you have to buy the keyboard and mouse separately as opposed to the iMac coming with both of those.

So now I'm spending twice as much for a computer. Granted it does more than the other one did, but still I think there is a place in the landscape for a $2K all in one with a large display. I hate cables ,wires, and desk clutter too, which is another thing I loved about my 27" iMac.
 
  • Like
Reactions: class77 and richest
That’s because of Google Classroom and that all the crappy education software they use is web based anyway.

Sure, but why aren’t they using Apple’s iWork equivalents?

1. Apple hasn’t invested enough in making that work
2. Chromebooks are much cheaper than MacBooks and most schools need something with attached keyboards for school work
 
$400 to be able to adjust the height
The 27” iMac had height adjustment? I mean, you remove the expensive stand to make it a more even comparison, and you’ve got a $99 difference. Plus, of course keyboard and mouse because you don’t hav… wait. You’ve GOT an iMac? Ok, leave off the extra keyboard and mouse.
 
Yeah, but that’s really about Chromebooks vs. iPads - and you’ll note that Apple still have a $330 basic iPad on the books.

Apple’s solution for education was definitely going to be the iPad - about 6 years ago some schools bought class sets of iPads, tablet-based curricula were all the rage - Apple had a big push in the US with deals with school districts, publishers etc. Then it got political and all went a bit pear shaped, lawyers at dawn etc. Last I looked it was still iPads vs. Chromebooks. Plus, in the last couple of years, it’s been whatever people had at home when the schools were closed, making cross-platform web apps the big thing. Frankly, I can see why people are going for Chromebooks - iPads are great until you need to type anything longer than a tweet.

Schools buy Chromebooks for kids to write papers and use office software. An iPad without an attached keyboard isn’t a good replacement for a laptop. And a removable keyboard isn’t a reasonable alternative for schools

iPads are great for many uses, but replacing a laptop/Chromebook is not one of them, especially not in this context
 
  • Like
Reactions: BKDad
Sure, but why aren’t they using Apple’s iWork equivalents?

1. Apple hasn’t invested enough in making that work
2. Chromebooks are much cheaper than MacBooks and most schools need something with attached keyboards for school work
No, the point is that the classroom administration, which is the largest chunk of funding ANY technology rollout, is what Google’s practically giving away when a school chooses Chromebooks. Of course, it’s so they Google has access to the huge amounts of data that students generate on those Chromebooks. As this is VERY valuable to them, they are of course willing to lowball anyone that would even try to enter that market.

There’s no one that’s going to out-price Google on this. Even if the iPads were $1 apiece, the administration would still be more than a lot of school systems could bear. If dollars are of utmost importance, there’s only one solution.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: maxoakland
The top end 5k iMacs, with i9 processors and the higher GPU options were pretty beefy by Mac standards and, on raw performance, were comparable with the base iMac Pro and Mac Pro.... but that cost $3200 and another $600 to upgrade to 32GB RAM (although you could save money by getting 3rd party RAM). If Apple's performance figures for the M1 Max Studio - they suggest that it thrashes the i9 iMac - are realistic then $3600 for a 32GB Mac Studio + Studio Display really isn't so bad, and the possibility of getting the Mac Studio + cheaper third party display is a real step forward.

It's the low-end 5k iMacs - without a M1 Pro Mini/Studio to pair with the screen - that are the loss. Trouble is, the (regular) M2 may be along soon which will not only obsolete the regular M1 but also give the cheaper "binned" M1 Pro options a run for their money. Could be why we didn't get an M1 Pro option last week. Once you get to the full-fat M1 Pro and need more than 16GB RAM then, going by MBP option prices, it's "only" $200 up to the M1 Max.
This is where Apple keeping EVERYTHING close to the vest drives me nuts. I can understand why you don’t give out specs or new features but this is what drove people nuts when it had been a long time since Apple had updated any of their computer lines in any significant way. This is now a situation where I either spend a lot more money than I should or I get something where I regret not spending a lot more money than I should. And what would be worse is doing either of the above and then in X amount of time, where X is a year or less, only to have them release something that I want and would have preferred in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: richest
So...... in your world the average family that just wants a larger screen should opt for the cheapest Studio at $3600 which is Apple is targeting at companies?
Utterly dumb move Apple!
No, the average family that wants a larger screen should either get a Mac mini + Studio display (starting at $2300) or a Mac mini or Air with a third-party 27" 4K screen. Be flexible.

I don't know what "average family" you are talking about and whether that is relevant. Different products are prices for different groups of customers. Someone who is very prices sensitive will probably not get a Studio display or a Mac Studio. That person may be at the low end of the consumer range. Other consumes are on the higher end and might want to get a Studio display and maybe get a low end Mac Studio. That customer is sometimes called a "prosumer" and Apple customers are typically more likely to fall in this group than Windows customers.

Then you have a range of professional/business users. Some are satisfied with an MBA, others need a full on Mac Pro, and may will be happy with something in the middle like the Mac Studio.

There isn't really a useful "average".
 
  • Like
Reactions: CWallace
Not at all. It was actually Intel (if I remember correctly) that made this amazing value possible. Nothing to do with Tim vs Steve
Intel didn't design and build the computer, they just supplied an important component. that's like saying Samsung is responsible for the iPhone because they make some of the displays.
 
That is the only thing I can think of, to be honest.

I think Apple is nuts to announce it so close after launching the Apple Studio Display, but Young so far has a 100% hit rate when it comes to display leaks and he says it is coming "real soon now".

(He has recently noted that his sources are in the panel side of the chain, so they do not always know what product the panels are going into to explain the "it's a display. No it's an iMac. No it's a display again" rumors.)
If the Pro display has miniLED and Promotion, I'm sure that the price difference will prevent it from stealing very many sales from the Studio Display.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr.PT
Well they definitely lost me as a customer - if my iMac dies I'll just get a used one or replace the parts (last time it died, I got a motherboard on eBay for $100). I don't like the 24" form factor. The 27" iMac was $1799 and had everything I needed on it, now you have to pay $1599 for the monitor, $400 to be able to adjust the height, and another $1999 for the Mac Studio for $3998. I guess one could argue the M1 Mac mini with the studio monitor for $1599 would be sufficient, that puts it at $2298, still making it $499 more than the 27" iMac, plus you have to buy the keyboard and mouse separately as opposed to the iMac coming with both of those.

So now I'm spending twice as much for a computer. Granted it does more than the other one did, but still I think there is a place in the landscape for a $2K all in one with a large display. I hate cables ,wires, and desk clutter too, which is another thing I loved about my 27" iMac.
Consider a refurb in the interim until you can see how Apple's product line shakes out
 
Oh dear, let me explain then.
Intel made it possible by providing chips that were very cheap (compared to later Xeon generations) and because of that the 2008 Mac Pro was amazing value.

And for your example, of course Samsung is responsible too as if they start charging 3x for that display and Apple can't go elsewhere then the iPhone will simply be more expensive (reducing the value).

We can see it with every new tech that comes in and is more expensive than the previous one. The price goes up.



Intel didn't design and build the computer, they just supplied an important component. that's like saying Samsung is responsible for the iPhone because they make some of the displays.
 
er, audio in/out is for amps and mixers, not just headphones. who wants that sticking out the side of your display? not me.

Er, the iMac has a headphone jack, not balanced or unbalanced line audio inputs or outputs. No Mac has ever had what you seem to mean by audio in/out, so what are we even talking about?

There is a headphone jack on the iMac, nothing more. And some guy is complaining that the iMac is too thin for that headphone jack to be on the back of the machine. And I'm pointing out that this is a ridiculous thing to complain about. That's all. The headphone jack is actually more practical on the side, because it's easier to access.
 
Well, if I wish to replace my failing 27" iMac, I need to start with a $1600 screen, another three hundred for a keyboard and mouse, and then buy a computer. The Mac mini cannot be configured with my necessary RAM and storage, so it's gotta be the Studio. I was ready to spend $2700 or so for a new iMac... Now, I'm easily $1500 over budget, and for no reason whatsoever. I have owned 17 Macs in my life, worked for the company, and retired early on that success. But I really need to think seriously about rewarding Apple for trying to force me to spend 50% more to get the machine I expected...foolishly expected, I guess. That is quite an ask.
I believe your current keyboard and mouse, both BlueTooth, will work with the Studio. Right?
 
I really like the Studio Combo. I am nothing more than a hobbyist. I have a 2019 21.5 iMac with 3.2Ghz 6 core i7, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, Radeon Pro 560X 4GB.

It does everything I ask of it in an exemplary way. I think it will last me a long, long, time.

The Trade In app does not give me credit for the upgrades beyond the base model. Who knows why? For the $400 they offer, I'll keep it.
 
As for the Mac mini being a better option, I am not sure I agree for a host of reasons. I have more input options on my 2015 27" iMac than a current MM would offer
That's because it's a 2015 machine, not because it's an iMac. My 2015 MPB has awesome ports, HDMI, SD, 2 Thunderbolt, 2 USB-A. 2015 era maches are the last ones Steve Jobs was involved in. Since then it's been form over function Joney Ive machines.

The iMacs today (2022) have 2 measley USB C ports, with an option of 2 more. Because today Apple is skimpy on ports across the board. At least the Mac Mini gets you 2 USB-A, 2 USB-C, and an HDMI.
 
That's because it's a 2015 machine, not because it's an iMac. My 2015 MPB has awesome ports, HDMI, SD, 2 Thunderbolt, 2 USB-A. 2015 era maches are the last ones Steve Jobs was involved in. Since then it's been form over function Joney Ive machines.

The iMacs today (2022) have 2 measley USB C ports, with an option of 2 more. Because today Apple is skimpy on ports across the board. At least the Mac Mini gets you 2 USB-A, 2 USB-C, and an HDMI.
The limit of ports is due to how the M1 is setup as the low end of the first generation of Apple Silicon. Apple has shown with the MBP and Studio that they understand that people do appreciate ports. They may configure the M2 with more I/o channels to support more ports though probably not as many as the MBP.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.