Apple 'Not' Working on New AirPort, But Apple TV and HomePod Provide Glimmer of Hope

[victorvictoria]

Why not the doodads? Their AppleTV, AirPods, and other doodads are great - best in class.

You cant grow if you dont expand categories. The ones that you list as “core” started out as a Doodad, like the Tablet because they saw phones and laptops get stale. The Watch is most definitely a doodad.

Think what we're talking about here: developing and building a router to compete with the glut of routers already produced, sold and in use by ISPs, Cisco, NetGear, ASUS, LinkSys, D-Link, Nest, Eero and Acer, among dozens of others (even Huawei, embedded in a billion locations). The reason they discontinued the AirPort back in the day was not because they were selling like iPhones. An Apple TV set? Same story. An Apple car? They'd be destroyed faster than DeLorean or Fisker!

Demand can be driven by constantly improving your products and services. And spending R&D money finding out what your millions of customers really want. What they really really want!

 

[thettareddast]

Sadly, Ι suspect home routers will soon be a dead market. ISPs are starting to include a router with their service by default. Next, I expect them to disable passive mode so, you can't even put your own device after the router. How can they monitor all of your activity and sell the data, if you can use and control your own router?

The first statement is correct. The reasons for it is not.

The biggest cost and headache for ISPs is support, and a vast majority of that is due to consumers’ networking equipment. Delivering equipment to their specification and design alleviates most of that burden.

But they cant disable equipment downstream of their device, and they can always sniff packets leaving their device (should they choose to).

 

[thettareddast]

Think what we're talking about here: developing and building a router to compete with the glut of routers already produced, sold and in use by ISPs, Cisco, NetGear, ASUS, LinkSys, D-Link, Nest, Eero and Acer, among dozens of others (even Huawei, embedded in a billion locations). The reason they discontinued the AirPort back in the day was not because they were selling like iPhones. An Apple TV set? Same story. An Apple car? They'd be destroyed faster than DeLorean or Fisker!

Demand can be driven by constantly improving your products and services. And spending R&D money finding out what your millions of customers really want. What they really really want!

All of their current products exist in an equally competitive market. Computers, phones, smart speakers, and last of not least wearables.

 

[leapp]

What routers are considered the best nowadays? I have an Asus that has been decent, but I’d prefer good or great to decent.

My Eero 6e system has been without issue. Just works. All the time.

 

[leapp]

The first statement is correct. The reasons for it is not.

The biggest cost and headache for ISPs is support, and a vast majority of that is due to consumers’ networking equipment. Delivering equipment to their specification and design alleviates most of that burden.

But they cant disable equipment downstream of their device, and they can always sniff packets leaving their device (should they choose to).

Until they provide them for free, people will buy their own. It’s substantially cheaper, at least with spectrum. Also, when I used their equipment, I never got sustained advertised speeds. I do now, with my own stuff.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Why doesn't everything extend your wifi network?

It's pretty easy to make any computer (Macs included) show up as a router through which other devices can connect to the internet. My understanding is that the computer needs to be connected to the internet via something other than wifi (ie, ethernet) for it to actually work as a router for other devices though.

But... couldn't you just throw a second wifi antenna in so it'd function as a repeater? This seems like it'd be a super nifty feature that I'd think lots of computers would have it and it'd largely eliminate the need for dedicated routers/repeaters.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Perhaps Gurman can get a real job. MESH networking isn't even actual mesh networking, and the lack of a LAN built-in requiring an Internet connection just to keep the local network running is gawd awful. IT has actually ruined Networking if at all possible.

 

[norbinhouston]

Airport was great. Super easy setup, the computer for the rest of us type set up. I've tried other wifi systems and they are hard to setup, like a windows computer. Interface is usually a mess, usable, but not elegant like Apple would make it. I would totally buy a new Airport system if Apple made them again. I also miss back to my Mac access for the HD attached to the basestation.

 

[krakenrelease]

What routers are considered the best nowadays? I have an Asus that has been decent, but I’d prefer good or great to decent.

If you get the speed you pay for in a few rooms away, it’s good enough

 

[Bremse]

Time capsule was such an amazing product. Now we are back to goofy USB backup drives dangling from hubs and a seperate router. We literally regressed.



Ubiquiti (their consumer line is Amplifi). dont waste money on anything else

Amplifi is pretty much a dead product line at this point. I would stay away and instead go with the UniFi line. I have a fairly large UniFi setup at my house (UDM Pro, 5 access points, a bunch of different switches, a 48 port PoE pro switch that powers everything downstream, configured for multiple VLANs to separate 20+ PoE cameras, etc) and it works great and is easy to maintain. For a starter setup I would recommend the cloud gateway ultra along with a small PoE switch (either the 8 port lite or the 8 port ultra switch with 60W supply) and one or more access points. For a really small setup you can just get the express gateway (it is router and AP in one box but can’t support more than 4 additional UniFi devices so limits expansion).

 

[lazyrighteye]

I've used several of Apple's wireless routers over the years; a couple of Airport Extreme Base Stations, a couple of AirPort Extremes, a couple of Airport Express Base Stations (one being the unit that hung off the wall outlet - such a cool concept - the other the AppleTV-sized one - both with Audio Out). Easily my favorite routers/networking hardware I've used.

A decade ago, I moved to a 1/2 acre property and my Airport-based wireless network was unable to cover both the main house (front) and the barn (where my studio sits at the back for the property) so I had to move to an Orbi mesh network (router + 2 satellites) - which has been amazing.

That said, I would love to see Apple get back into the router/mesh network game. While I like my Orib, the ease of use/management Apple offered was unparalleled.

 

[jaw04005]

The biggest cost and headache for ISPs is support, and a vast majority of that is due to consumers’ networking equipment. Delivering equipment to their specification and design alleviates most of that burden.

Cry me a river.

My fiber ISP wanted me to a use a used/customer returned three-year-old ActionTec router that didn't support my fiber connection speeds, didn't cover hardly any of my home and didn't support modern WiFi standards like 6 or 6e.

The best thing modern ISPs could do is become a full utility and just give everyone an ethernet jack/ONT. Let the customer buy the wireless router and quit trying to make extra money by selling customer data.

FTC Staff Report Finds Many Internet Service Providers Collect Troves of Personal Data, Users Have Few Options to Restrict Use

Many internet service providers (ISPs) collect and share far more data about their customers than many consumers may expect—including access to all of their Internet traffic and real-ti

www.ftc.gov

Especially considering most of them built out their fiber networks using public funds from:

Fact Sheet: Biden-Harris Administration Announces Over $40 Billion to Connect Everyone in America to Affordable, Reliable, High-Speed Internet | The White House

Largest Internet Funding Announcement in History Kicks Off Administration-Wide Investing in America Tour High-speed internet is no longer a luxury – it is

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[victorvictoria]

All of their current products exist in an equally competitive market. Computers, phones, smart speakers, and last of not least wearables.

But those products stand out from the competition by being better. No one thinks about the router that came from their ISP except a few uber-geeks. And Samsung, LG or Sony have already sold you your TV, haven't they? Andwhy would you buy a car made by a startup like Apple's? False conflation.

 

[jonblatho]

because an airport with time machine means they can't sell icloud services.

Yeah this doesn't really work. Time Capsule offered backups for Macs, and in the year of our lord 2024 you still can't back up a Mac to iCloud, even if you pay for the requisite storage space. They're not risking any services revenue by making Time Machine backups easier.

 

[jwdsail]

Bloomberg's Mark Gurman recently reported that Apple is developing its own Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chip that will debut in new Apple TV and HomePod mini models next year. The report led to hopes that Apple might also use the chip to revive its line of AirPort routers, which were discontinued in 2018, but those dreams have been dashed by Gurman himself.

In his Power On newsletter today, the well-connected journalist said that Apple is "not" currently working on new AirPort routers.

Gurman did offer a glimmer of hope. He said that Apple's in-house Wi-Fi chip is "so sophisticated" that it could "theoretically" turn a home device like a future Apple TV or HomePod into a wireless access point. However, he did not confirm if Apple will actually follow through with that idea, so keep your expectations low for the time being.

Apple's in-house Wi-Fi chip could still have other benefits for the next Apple TV and HomePod mini models, including Wi-Fi 6E support.

Article Link: Apple 'Not' Working on New AirPort, But Apple TV and HomePod Provide Glimmer of Hope

Would love to be able to buy updated AirPort products...

Seriously Apple, shut up and take my money!

 

[switz]

Have to use an approved cable modem which I purchased from Amazon. The one ethernet cable then goes to my Orbi 960 central brain. I use VPN most of the time and have a really complex password for the WiFi networks (2.5 & 5). Only my iDevices backup off site to the iCloud. MacOS devices backup on my internal network.

During the transitional phase, I took the Airport Express and an ethernet cable and created a secure network in my room at a hotel or motel.

Seems many hotels have a poor quality unsecured WiFi that just chokes at different times during the day. Darn shame considering the $500+ daily charge like at MGM in Las Vegas.

Last thing I do before leaving home on a trip is to upgrade all the Apps and operating system on each device so no upgrades are contemplated or installed on the trip.

 

[Oilbrnr]

I just replaced all my old Apple networking gear with Ubiquiti. I was blown away from the packaging (bubble levels included in wall card stock templates), Apple like hardware and intuitive software. So blown away I had to do some research to see who was behind the company. It then made sense, an ex-Apple employee, Robert Pera started the company in 2005. Impressive stuff.

 

[SeaFox]

Yes, that works. However, spending $700 on a NAS for just TM backups is a lot when compared to the price of the AirPort Time Capsule.

You can build a NAS out of an old PC.

If the physical size is of great importance, depending on the amount of data/history you want to keep you can buy a 1 Liter mini-micro system used on eBay for less than $200, and just add a high capacity 2.5" or M.2 SSD for storage. That's the same amount of shelf space as an Apple Time Capsule and can be used for significantly more than just backups.

 

[DownUnderDan]

Time capsule was such an amazing product. Now we are back to goofy USB backup drives dangling from hubs and a seperate router. We literally regressed.



Ubiquiti (their consumer line is Amplifi). dont waste money on anything else

Synology NAS products support TimeMachine. Use it on all my Mac's.

 

[DownUnderDan]

Perhaps Gurman can get a real job. MESH networking isn't even actual mesh networking, and the lack of a LAN built-in requiring an Internet connection just to keep the local network running is gawd awful. IT has actually ruined Networking if at all possible.

Take up a hobby. Do a daily walk for fresh air and exercise. Everything will seem better.

 

[Artemis70]

You can build a NAS out of an old PC.

Good for those that still have some old PC around. I haven't had a PC in 20 years. I switched to laptops around that time and haven't looked back ever since.

If the physical size is of great importance, depending on the amount of data/history you want to keep you can buy a 1 Liter mini-micro system used on eBay for less than $200, and just add a high capacity 2.5" or M.2 SSD for storage. That's the same amount of shelf space as an Apple Time Capsule and can be used for significantly more than just backups.

You guesses right. Physical size is of importance.
If I have to replace my Apple Time Capsule, I will replace it with something new and of quality. I know there are options available that use more or less the same shelf space. For example the WD My Cloud Home. Reviews indicate that that is a mixed bag though. When my Apple Time Capsule "dies", I will have to decide what to replace it with.
You are absolutely right. Most things new(er) can be used for significantly more than just backups. The thing is, I don't need more than what I have as I am perfectly happy with what I have. If I had had more wishes, investing in something new(er) would have been a good investment many years ago.

@SeaFox: Thank you for your suggestions and for thinking along.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Unifi are the Apple of Wifi / networking. Started by ex Apple guys.

Loads of Access points / switches / routers. Amazing U.I. loads of control. Supports homekit.

They even have a 7 Drive NAS unit for not a lot of money that support time machine.

Ubiquiti Store

Rethinking IT

uk.store.ui.com

 

[Thomba]

After my Airport network I switched to a Synology based network, 1 router and 3 hardwired (MESH-enabled) access points. Very reliable. Great interface. Loads of tweaking options if needed.
Would recommend

 

[thettareddast]

Cry me a river.

My fiber ISP wanted me to a use a used/customer returned three-year-old ActionTec router that didn't support my fiber connection speeds, didn't cover hardly any of my home and didn't support modern WiFi standards like 6 or 6e.

The best thing modern ISPs could do is become a full utility and just give everyone an ethernet jack/ONT. Let the customer buy the wireless router and quit trying to make extra money by selling customer data.

Your ISP don’t care about your modern wifi standard requirements or the specifics of your house.

Your ISP cares about minimizing their support hassles, by providing wireless routing functionality out of the box.

They used to provide the service and modem only. That didn’t work.

You can still buy and use your own router. I’m just telling you the historical reason.

But those products stand out from the competition by being better. No one thinks about the router that came from their ISP except a few uber-geeks. And Samsung, LG or Sony have already sold you your TV, haven't they? Andwhy would you buy a car made by a startup like Apple's? False conflation.

Why conflate random things like cars? You said they should stick to core products instead of expanding into competitive businesses. Headphones are a competitive business that was not Apple’s original core competency (=computing).

You contractdict yourself by saying “well its fine to branch to places where they can be better”. By that logic, they can make routers better.

To be clear I didnt say they should or shouldnt make routers. But they should always explore categories where they can make products better than the status-quo and are accretive to their bottom line. That could very well be TVs. Just sticking to their guns is a recipe for stagnation, and eventually death.

 

[victorvictoria]

Your ISP don’t care about your modern wifi standard requirements or the specifics of your house.

Your ISP cares about minimizing their support hassles, by providing wireless routing functionality out of the box.

They used to provide the service and modem only. That didn’t work.

You can still buy and use your own router. I’m just telling you the historical reason.


Why conflate random things like cars? You said they should stick to core products instead of expanding into competitive businesses. Headphones are a competitive business that was not Apple’s original core competency (=computing).

You contractdict yourself by saying “well its fine to branch to places where they can be better”. By that logic, they can make routers better.

To be clear I didnt say they should or shouldnt make routers. But they should always explore categories where they can make products better than the status-quo and are accretive to their bottom line. That could very well be TVs. Just sticking to their guns is a recipe for stagnation, and eventually death.

Actually, I did NOT say, "well its fine to branch to places where they can be better." I wrote: "But those products stand out from the competition by being better." If you're just going to make stuff up, don't misuse adjectives like "accretive" as verbs. Apple is not going to prosper making TV sets, or cars, or routers. We all have those already, and Apple's price margin philosophy would force them to attempt to cannibalize the markets of Samsung, Sony, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Cisco, NetGear, Linksys and other well established marques. That means their expensive offerings in those arenas would have to be so much better than the competition that people would switch from consumer durables that last years or decades regardless of cost.

Apple is now what's known as a "mature" technology company. They produce highly desirable products that have short to mid-term cycle upgrades, along with services that carry far higher margins than their hardware.

You're welcome for the education in the sole purpose of business: make money.