Apple Offering Discounted iPad 10-Packs to Educational Institutions

[Adamo]

I disagree, very very small discount

Apple should have extended the full education discount of 14% to students. As much as I love Apple's products, they're very much an overly greedy company these days. They're also possibly being myopic, as students are highly likely to buy content for the device IMO

Very shameful Apple

Uh, why? How is it shameful? This isn't an item that is even remotely usable for studying with alone - what other electronics company does student discount on the scale that Apple does? The iPad is a glorified iPod touch, it is not a learning device (yet), not will it replace a computer in the home unless all you use is Facebook, even then you can't upload photos without the use of another computer.

Who cares??? its a $500 device that can replace all computer needs of any student. Period.

I'm tired of hearing this backwater lack of imagination. Every student should have an iPad, and the great news is that most can afford one, even without "discounts".

Sarcasm, right? Any student, it doesn't even fulfill the needs of half of all students. It can't print, for one! Nor can you put pictures or anything onto it without the use of another computer, so how exactly does it replace a computer?

 

[jsiegl]

Price, personal purchase and Higher ed comments are true but miss the point

It seems like the majority of the comments are about Price, personal purchase and Higher ed use cases. All of these comments miss the point of what the announcement is about, institutional purchases. This is about school's buying large quantities, and really, since I have a hard time imagining that a University would be buying 10 packs of iPods . Yes, I know that schools like ACU have innovative 1:1 ipod /phone programs where they provide devices to the student, that is not really what this bundle is about). The target audience of a program like this is clearly K12. It is similar to bundles that apple currently has of 32 iPod touches and a Bretford cart or use in a K12 classroom.

This is all interesting, but the biggest challenge and obstacle that Apple has in K12 is that the iPod ecosystem is a consumer model. It is also not a Higher ed model, where students own their own device and are conditioned to the requiremet of buying their content. I work as a technologist for a 200+ school district and we have been trying to figure out for the better part of a year how to make this consumer product work in k12 setting.

We've been running pilots in several schools / classes since late spring of 09 and the biggest problem we have is getting a straight answer on how to liscence paid applications. We've asked several Apple representatives "if I buy a class set of 32 ipods, and I want to use a paid app, how many copies does the school need to buy, how many itunes accounts do we need, how many computers do we need to sync all 32 devices and how can we purchase using ta purchase order (no school is going to relish tying a credit card to a personal account, or cutting a PO for 30 $25 itunes gift cards!)

The answer we have gotten back every time has been not 32, not 1, not 1 for every 5 devices, but the question does not apply, the iPod and iTunes are consumer products and the enduser agreement is for consumers not institutions, and when asked for advice we've been told that Apple does not provide interpretations of their agreements and how we choose to interpret it is a mater that we should take up with our in-house council.

The good will and glow of Apple in education will continue to drive adoption of the ipod and ipad. I know millions of stimulus dollars went to ipods in school districts around the country, unfortunately, until Apple accepts the fact that school districts are not individuals and they have to "think different" and work with us when we ask for advice on how to successfully use their products in K12, much of the money and the potential will go o waste.

 

[matticus008]

All of these comments miss the point of what the announcement is about, institutional purchases. This is about school's buying large quantities, and really, since I have a hard time imagining that a University would be buying 10 packs of iPods .

Apple does sell iPods in institutional packs.

We've asked several Apple representatives "if I buy a class set of 32 ipods, and I want to use a paid app, how many copies does the school need to buy,

You need to talk to the developer, not to Apple. The App Store doesn't do volume licensing, because it's a consumer resource. The developer will either give you codes for each device or arrange to provide you with a master for site licensing, in which case you'll have to go the enterprise deployment route that Apple offers for large organizations.

how many itunes accounts do we need

That obviously depends on how you plan to manage the devices. Are you giving them to students, either as a rental or to keep? If so, each iPod will use the student's own account. If not, you will manage them centrally from one or a handful of accounts created by your organization for the purpose.

how many computers do we need to sync all 32 devices

One.

and how can we purchase using ta purchase order (no school is going to relish tying a credit card to a personal account

If you're buying through the app store, you can't. I'm not aware of any institution that doesn't have a business credit card for exactly that reason.

when asked for advice we've been told that Apple does not provide interpretations of their agreements and how we choose to interpret it is a mater that we should take up with our in-house council.

That's because how you organize your operation is an internal matter, and deployment consulting isn't provided over the phone.

However, a cursory search reveals the easiest solution for your needs:
http://http://images.apple.com/education/stimulus/pdfs/Apple-iPodLearningLab0509.pdf

 

[Takuta-Nui]

This gave me the idea of a combined AppleCare plan. Since Apple is pitching their mobile computing products in three major categories: iPhone, iPad, and MacBook - it would be really cool to offer a combined AC plan for two or all three categories.

Like I have a iPhone and a MacBook - wouldn't it be neat to be able to buy a hybrid plan that would be about $20 to $30 cheaper than buying them individually?

 

[Friscohoya]

Only $20 savings for each iPad, when you buy 10. That is no better than the education discount on iMacs, when you buy them 1 at a time.

I was gonna say is that a discount or a misprint?

 

[Doctor Q]

what kind of school would need the ipad over a mac or pc?

It's up to innovative schools to decide whether, and how, iPads have a role in schools. They might have good uses in classrooms, libraries, labs, reading clubs, alongside computers, instead of computers, or who knows.

 

[marksandvig]

Who cares??? its a $500 device that can replace all computer needs of any student. Period.

When was the last time you were in a university class? No offense, but before the iPad came out, I said I would purchase one if it did everything I needed it to do (word processing, FULL internet, music, and email). Unfortunately, it doesn't multi-task, and it does not do the full internet.

 

[ngenerator]

Who cares??? its a $500 device that can replace all computer needs of any student. Period.

Lol, that was punny! Excellent play on words

 

[baryon]

I don't know what kind of posh school would buy iPads! What would they do with them? Hand them out to students and go "hey guys, free iPad!" or would they allow students to browse the web during lessons? Or is it only to read books? In that case, books are cheaper, and offer a more book-like experience... don't they? The idea of school text books being available for the iPad is cool, allowing students to only carry the iPad around, but I don't think text books will get made into digital versions anytime this decade. Teachers usually want students to use books that were published like 5 years ago... I think a laptop would be more suitable for students, but only at university, not at school, since they don't allow you to submit typed text or study from the internet anyway.

 

[roach]

The lack of physical keyboard and the fact that is runs on a phone OS really makes the iPad useless for school purpose. I just can see anybody writing long essays on a screen (thumb input) keyboard. Having a real OS takes advantage of already developed software (and stable) and there are tons of them out there for every needs. Whereas an iPad software still needs to be developed. Other things like web research while writing notes can not be done on an iPad. All of these issues a laptop already solves and much more. Any new function an iPad have can easily be created on a laptop.

Frankly, an iPad is only good for is viewing media and even at that its pretty bad. Imagine holding an iPad upright to watch a two hour movie.

 

[j_maddison]

Uh, why? How is it shameful? This isn't an item that is even remotely usable for studying with alone - what other electronics company does student discount on the scale that Apple does? The iPad is a glorified iPod touch, it is not a learning device (yet), not will it replace a computer in the home unless all you use is Facebook, even then you can't upload photos without the use of another computer.

Sarcasm, right? Any student, it doesn't even fulfill the needs of half of all students. It can't print, for one! Nor can you put pictures or anything onto it without the use of another computer, so how exactly does it replace a computer?

Like the way you just picked out a solitary post, ignored my other post, just to make your point ;0)

I said it's a companion device in a later post. I was a student, and I agree I wouldn't write an essay on an iPad. My 80wpm isn't blistering, but it would be slowed right down by the iPad and I would want to get my thoughts on the screen as quickly as possible

What it is good for is note taking in lectures, using the diary on the go, being able to surf the net, reference quickly, carry core texts around with you (core texts not replacing half a dozen books that need to be open at hte same time for quick reference), great for e mail on the go, great for facebook in those boring lectures where you're struggling to keep your self awake, and lots of other handy things.

Where it falls down is the lack of multi tasking, porn, illegal downloading, and lots of other things students find handy

I used a palm during my uni years, the think was fricking amazing for what I wanted it to do at the time. You don't always need to carry around one device that does it all, sometimes simplicity and convenience is what it's all about

Funnily enough I agree with your points, just don't try and bend what someone else has said to try and fit the point you want to make, you'll lose marks for that in your exams/ essays

It seems like the majority of the comments are about Price, personal purchase and Higher ed use cases. All of these comments miss the point of what the announcement is about, institutional purchases. This is about school's buying large quantities, and really, since I have a hard time imagining that a University would be buying 10 packs of iPods . Yes, I know that schools like ACU have innovative 1:1 ipod /phone programs where they provide devices to the student, that is not really what this bundle is about). The target audience of a program like this is clearly K12. It is similar to bundles that apple currently has of 32 iPod touches and a Bretford cart or use in a K12 classroom.

This is all interesting, but the biggest challenge and obstacle that Apple has in K12 is that the iPod ecosystem is a consumer model. It is also not a Higher ed model, where students own their own device and are conditioned to the requiremet of buying their content. I work as a technologist for a 200+ school district and we have been trying to figure out for the better part of a year how to make this consumer product work in k12 setting.

We've been running pilots in several schools / classes since late spring of 09 and the biggest problem we have is getting a straight answer on how to liscence paid applications. We've asked several Apple representatives "if I buy a class set of 32 ipods, and I want to use a paid app, how many copies does the school need to buy, how many itunes accounts do we need, how many computers do we need to sync all 32 devices and how can we purchase using ta purchase order (no school is going to relish tying a credit card to a personal account, or cutting a PO for 30 $25 itunes gift cards!)

The answer we have gotten back every time has been not 32, not 1, not 1 for every 5 devices, but the question does not apply, the iPod and iTunes are consumer products and the enduser agreement is for consumers not institutions, and when asked for advice we've been told that Apple does not provide interpretations of their agreements and how we choose to interpret it is a mater that we should take up with our in-house council.

The good will and glow of Apple in education will continue to drive adoption of the ipod and ipad. I know millions of stimulus dollars went to ipods in school districts around the country, unfortunately, until Apple accepts the fact that school districts are not individuals and they have to "think different" and work with us when we ask for advice on how to successfully use their products in K12, much of the money and the potential will go o waste.

I hold my hand up, I did miss the point. I confused this with being one and the same as a student/ teacher discount. I didn't engage my brain there for a second.

I think Apple should give good discounts to educational establishments and students, hell it's far cheaper for them than marketing campaigns. Hook a student on an Apple and you've got a customer for life!

 

[Dooger]

It's up to innovative schools to decide whether, and how, iPads have a role in schools. They might have good uses in classrooms, libraries, labs, reading clubs, alongside computers, instead of computers, or who knows.

Oh FFS, c'mon. No they're not. It's a locked-down, uni-tasking, big-ass ipod. Kids are gonna be carrying round something similar in their pockets. Computing isn't the amazing thing it was to us as kids, youths take this **** for granted so a big reader/web browser will interest them for literally seconds. Try and impart some intelligence on this argument cos so far I still haven't heard a good reason for the ipad's existence.

 

[bartzilla]

Really nice for the schools.

Really irrelevant for the schools. I can't say this will change our purchasing strategy in this area either way, the discount is too small to matter really.

It's up to innovative schools to decide whether, and how, iPads have a role in schools. They might have good uses in classrooms, libraries, labs, reading clubs, alongside computers, instead of computers, or who knows.

Except they don't support things like Jmol. They're too big to go into a pocket, they can't be shared around like books, they'll need recharging if they're used heavily. The ipad is a lot of things, sure, but there's lots of things it isn't, too.

Who cares??? its a $500 device that can replace all computer needs of any student. Period.

I bet my students can't wait to run products like AutoCad, Final Cut Pro, Logic, Sonar and Visual Studio, on the ipad. They'll be so excited I'm sure.

It's just a glorified web slate and note taker. By no means bad but I don't see any students where I work, or staff for that matter, rushing to get one. We may buy one or two for R&D.

 

[Dooger]

I bet my students can't wait to run products like AutoCad, Final Cut Pro, Logic, Sonar and Visual Studio, on the ipad. They'll be so excited I'm sure.

It's just a glorified web slate and note taker. By no means bad but I don't see any students where I work, or staff for that matter, rushing to get one. We may buy one or two for R&D.

I completely agree. It's probably being aimed at the computing illiterate or perhaps commuters but in its current form with an iPhone OS, it's just not powerful or versatile enough for the vast majority of students.

 

[baryon]

Imagine holding an iPad upright to watch a two hour movie.

That's why you can buy that case as an accessory, it holds the iPad upright.

While I don't think the iPad is a device for schools and serious stuff, it's awesome for when you want to watch a movie in an airplane or bus. In an airplane, you can't use your laptop since there isn't enough space to open it because of the seat in front of you, so the only way you could watch a movie on a plane is either by taking an iPhone/iPod Touch, or using a portable DVD player (yuck!). But if you want a bigger screen, you can get the iPad and it will fit in the 10cm space between your head and the seat in front of you perfectly.

Watching a movie on a laptop would drain the battery within 1 or 2 hours anyway, while on the iPad you can easily watch 3 movies and still have some battery left (if the 10 hour battery life is true).

 

[pmpknetr21]

I disagree, very very small discount

Apple should have extended the full education discount of 14% to students. As much as I love Apple's products, they're very much an overly greedy company these days. They're also possibly being myopic, as students are highly likely to buy content for the device IMO

Very shameful Apple

Shameful? Really? What are you talking about?

First off, Apple has already priced these products very competitively at their standard prices. Second, Apple does not provide a standard discount of 14% for their computers to students. It varies from product to product. Thirdly, you can rest assured that Apple, having learned from their "no price umbrella" tactic for the $99 3G and how successful that has been, recognizes that they have to begin offering lower prices on their products.

Dude, seriously, it's $499. That's $100 more than a crappy netbook that won't do half the stuff this thing can do.

Great job, Apple. No shame in your game here.

The iPad is not a tablet PC. You can still pay $2,000 for a tablet PC if you want. The iPad is a tablet yes, but it doesn't run a full blown deskptop OS (I'm not getting into that argument).

My point is, Apple used to offer excellent discounts to students and teachers across all of it's product ranges. It's a shame they're not offering the same with the iPad.

They still offer those discounts. The only reason the percentage of the discount has dropped is because the cost of the computers has also dropped. My 20" iMac G4 cost me $2649 after the student discount back in 2004. For that today, I can get a Mac Pro.

iPod discount? Not needed. iPods are anywhere from $50 to $125 less than what they were 4 years ago. Again, no discount needed.

Really irrelevant for the schools. I can't say this will change our purchasing strategy in this area either way, the discount is too small to matter really.

Untrue when you have schools purchasing by the thousands, as many university's are considering doing for incoming freshman, just as they did with the iPod touch, White MacBook, and iPhone at places like Duke U.

Those ten packs can truly add up. And in this economy, every dollar counts.

Think about the cost schools and students will save on books when publishers begin to offer more and more text books via download versus the 20lb. text that sits on a shelf at the campus bookstore for $175. Then you try to resell at the end of the semester, and guess what? The text has been updated to it's 13th edition, and now you're stuck with it.

Apple's done a great job by pricing these at rock bottom prices already, especially when we all expected prices to be at $899 and up.

I bet my students can't wait to run products like AutoCad, Final Cut Pro, Logic, Sonar and Visual Studio, on the ipad. They'll be so excited I'm sure.

It's just a glorified web slate and note taker. By no means bad but I don't see any students where I work, or staff for that matter, rushing to get one. We may buy one or two for R&D.

I completely agree. It's probably being aimed at the computing illiterate or perhaps commuters but in its current form with an iPhone OS, it's just not powerful or versatile enough for the vast majority of students.

How about we reserve final judgement until we actually use one, m'kay?

 

[djellison]

Dude, seriously, it's $499. That's $100 more than a crappy netbook ...

...that has a proper keyboard. A larger screen. A 160 or maybe 250 or even 500 gb hard drive. multiple USB ports, vga and maybe even HDMI. Can multitask, run the Office apps the business world actually uses, play any movie format including HD content, DIvx, H264 etc, browse the web with Safari. Or Firfox. Or Opera. With flash...that works.

Compared to a 'Crappy' netbook, even the cheap iPad is very expensive.

I may very well get one, entirely depending on how well it plays video, and how well it manages and displays PDF's. But lets not pretend it's cheap, or even reasonably priced, compared to Netbooks.

 

[pmpknetr21]

...that has a proper keyboard. A larger screen. A 160 or maybe 250 or even 500 gb hard drive. multiple USB ports, vga and maybe even HDMI. Can multitask, run the Office apps the business world actually uses, play any movie format including HD content, DIvx, H264 etc, browse the web with Safari. Or Firfox. Or Opera. With flash...that works.

Compared to a 'Crappy' netbook, even the cheap iPad is very expensive.

Valid points, honestly. But, what negates your argument is that:

1. the netbook user experience is terrible. (come one, be honest... it is)
2. proper keyboard? really? honestly, dude, we can debate this, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. Netbooks keyboards are too cramped up for me.
3. larger screen? maybe by an inch or so. past that, it's no longer a netbook, it's a laptop.
4. by the time you add a larger HDD, the price balloons to over $600/$700, no? at least that's what I've seen. at that point, you're out of the netbook price range and into laptops again.
5. they all use Windows i.e. What good is a Ferrari body with all the bells and whistles if the engine is from a Hyundai


Again, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I do acknowledge that you bring valid points, but it just seems like, at that point, you're talking about a laptop, not a netbook.

And, again, they run Windows.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Doctor Q]

They're too big to go into a pocket..., they can't be shared around like books, they'll need recharging if they're used heavily. The ipad is a lot of things, sure, but there's lots of things it isn't, too.

Can't fit in a pocket... that's an advantage for schools like the middle school I help, because they can't "walk off" with a student. We currently use carts with Mac laptops. They charge up while in the cart, then get handed out to students for a group project. If they were iPads they would take less space in a crowded classroom and boot up faster. I hope they would be as durable. They don't need to be shared like books. Each student would have one, but if two students had to share one it would be big enough for that too. And we'd save money over replacing the laptops with newer laptops as they age.

First-issue iPads would be fine for group projects that involve access to websites (without Flash) and word processing, but with suitable new applications I hope clever teachers would be able to find even more useful educational activities for their students. And I know the students would be enthusiastic about using them.

When we first started replacing chalkboards with digital whiteboards, some people thought it was a solution looking for a problem, but soon teachers found how to use the new potential to do much more than they could with an old-fashioned board. Despite the doubts of some posters above, I think schools like ours will have good uses for iPads (or their marketplace competitors) as educators experiment and innovate.

 

[johng2222]

Are you not paying attention?

I read some of these posts and wonder if the people debating "What good is the Ipad?" are paying any attention to what people are doing. And, I mean, doing now that they never did before...

I took notes in university in longhand. I'd never do that again. Not when I can sit there (or, someone else can) and record the lectures on a digital recorder. Most lectures you only need to hear twice before you've squeezed out what there is to get. If I took notes, it would be from the replay - and I'd fast forward through that! Then again, what are email and Skype good for?

Mobile phones were a hilarious idea when I first heard about them. And, I first heard about them because the engineering students were working out how to do "cells" so you could move around. You could see the sole antennae tower (Up there!) as you used the phone - outside - and you could also usually see a bank of pay phones somewhere around you at the same time where you could make calls for a dime. Now, you go to the can and talk on the sh****er and people think this is "normal."

I used to spend hours in the language lab parroting tapes. Ridiculous idea now to go to dedicated building, to a special room, to ask some guy to change your tape from his "star trek" booth in the front of the "lab." And, don't ask me about all the lectures and stuff that used to be on LP records that you had to check out - after you got there in the rain - from the library. (Remember those?) As for "Educational TV..." Egad, the amount of effort spent getting everyone to sit down in the darkened classroom. And, over head projectors.... Snooze....

And, dictionaries and reference manuals and, oh yeah, textbooks... We're talking 80 pounds of books to keep track of and haul around. A few people were destructive/smart enough to take their notes IN the book. Hell if you forgot them, or, lost them, however...

I could go on, but I wonder if I was ever dumb enough to really care about the negatives being offered about this device when there are so many clear advantages to this and others being used in combination.

Last, I volunteer teach a number of skills and hobbies and have noted that the PC generation would "drill down" into an issue a lot more than the current "google" generation can even imagine doing. My generation would read books, take notes, and discuss things. The PC generation would read books, figure out some way to graph things, and then argue the results. The current group honestly thinks - in the way that they think - that every question has an answer and it can be looked up. Any sentence longer than ten words puts them to sleep.

Still, they have a point. This Ipad, and other devices, is/are a tremendous learning and work shortcut and people will become increasingly addicted. They won't be wise, or, good neighbors, but they will be good customers for anything - including your offerings - if you can keep it simple, and quickly accessible.

 

[djellison]

1. the netbook user experience is terrible. (come one, be honest... it is)

I find my Samsung NC10 really very usefull indeed - I love using it. It's done all sorts of things no other machine could really do (like be powered off a car battery in the middle of a field with a USB capture card being fed by an IR camera that was pointing at a dog trap to try and find a lost dog, uploading images via 3G to the web and automatically emailing me when things changed in the F.O.V )

[/QUOTE]
2. proper keyboard? really? honestly, dude, we can debate this, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. Netbooks keyboards are too cramped up for me.
[/QUOTE]

It's a LOT better than any touchpad typing. a LOT LOT better. It's not as good as a full sized keyboard, but it's good enough for most of the things most people do most of the time.

3. larger screen? maybe by an inch or so. past that, it's no longer a netbook, it's a laptop.

It IS larger - and it includes a webcam as well. And a microphone. and isn't glossy.

4. by the time you add a larger HDD, the price balloons to over $600/$700, no? at least that's what I've seen. at that point, you're out of the netbook price range and into laptops again.

No - not really. 160Gb netbooks - <£300 - that's an order of magnitude more storage than the basic iPad - for less money. You could whack a 500gb drive in for £60/$100 and still be WELL under the price of the 32 Gig iPad (without 3G)

5. they all use Windows i.e. What good is a Ferrari body with all the bells and whistles if the engine is from a Hyundai

Oh god - car analogies. the OS on a netbook isn't as pretty as an iPad - but it can do a lot LOT more.

Again, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I do acknowledge that you bring valid points, but it just seems like, at that point, you're talking about a laptop, not a netbook.

I'm talking about my Samsung NC10 - a 10" netbook. Cheaper than a base spec iPad.

 

[Dooger]

I find my Samsung NC10 really very usefull indeed - I love using it. It's done all sorts of things no other machine could really do (like be powered off a car battery in the middle of a field with a USB capture card being fed by an IR camera that was pointing at a dog trap to try and find a lost dog, uploading images via 3G to the web and automatically emailing me when things changed in the F.O.V )

2. proper keyboard? really? honestly, dude, we can debate this, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. Netbooks keyboards are too cramped up for me.

It's a LOT better than any touchpad typing. a LOT LOT better. It's not as good as a full sized keyboard, but it's good enough for most of the things most people do most of the time.



It IS larger - and it includes a webcam as well. And a microphone. and isn't glossy.



No - not really. 160Gb netbooks - <£300 - that's an order of magnitude more storage than the basic iPad - for less money. You could whack a 500gb drive in for £60/$100 and still be WELL under the price of the 32 Gig iPad (without 3G)



Oh god - car analogies. the OS on a netbook isn't as pretty as an iPad - but it can do a lot LOT more.




I'm talking about my Samsung NC10 - a 10" netbook. Cheaper than a base spec iPad.

Nice work djellison, you saved me having to try and explain to the fanboys that typing on a touchscreen in no way equates to using a physical keyboard.
As Bartzilla points out there's no way the iPad will be of use to design/art students and from my own experience, med schools will have no use for them either. The list of institutions dwindles further. It's a glorified e-reader, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that

 

[roach]

That's why you can buy that case as an accessory, it holds the iPad upright.

While I don't think the iPad is a device for schools and serious stuff, it's awesome for when you want to watch a movie in an airplane or bus. In an airplane, you can't use your laptop since there isn't enough space to open it because of the seat in front of you, so the only way you could watch a movie on a plane is either by taking an iPhone/iPod Touch, or using a portable DVD player (yuck!). But if you want a bigger screen, you can get the iPad and it will fit in the 10cm space between your head and the seat in front of you perfectly.

Watching a movie on a laptop would drain the battery within 1 or 2 hours anyway, while on the iPad you can easily watch 3 movies and still have some battery left (if the 10 hour battery life is true).

Using case to prop up an iPad has a very limited angle viewing. Just hope the angle available will allow you to view movies from airplane seat to lying on a bed.

Hate to say it but netbook is a better option. You can't use screen size or cramp keyboards (which is better than iPad's screen thumb input) argument because there are tons out there ranging from 10 inch and up. And they are getting more powerfull (ions).