DisplayPort 1.2 will allow for double the bandwidth, and should do so without requiring new connectors like HDMI Type B/dual-link DVI does.
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Apple Offering Free Licensing of Mini DisplayPort Spec
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Awesome. Well then... You know Display port would take over HDMI if it also supported things like Deep Color and DTSMA/DDTHD.
Having a desktop with mini DP would be nothing but a bad joke
IMHO, Apple's track record of producing and updating their monitors isn't that spectacular...
Why does Apple seem to like to "ghettoize" their customers by using non-standard or proprietary connectors?
I'm surprised they don't have OS/X only work with a new "Super mini-slim printer port", of their own design, just so customers can't take advantage of the huge selection of usb ported printers.
Then again, they just might do that some day if they decide to make the new Apple iPrinter.
It'll kill our freedom to choose, but hey, it'll look cool, right?
I'm surprised they don't have OS/X only work with a new "Super mini-slim printer port", of their own design, just so customers can't take advantage of the huge selection of usb ported printers.
Then again, they just might do that some day if they decide to make the new Apple iPrinter.
It'll kill our freedom to choose, but hey, it'll look cool, right?
If you think about all the Apple port modifications, has there ever been a port that became popular and is/was used by the rest of the industry? It seems that Apple likes to introduce new ports derived from some industry standard and after few revs. they back out and introduce the industry standard one. I can see SJ on a keynote introducing the new and magnificent 40" Studio Display and just because he doesn't want the PC users to suffer with their horrible Dell displays the new Studio Display has standard DP... and just by a pure coincidence all the new macs will also have standard size DP... and the owners of the original "bricks" can use the new display with that nice adapter hanging from they tiny mini DP.
You mean like they did with USB back with the first iMac so that customers couldn't take advantage of the huge selection of parallel-port or Mac serial port printers?
They didn't develop them, but they were responsible for popularizing Firewire and USB.
Now, now. Since the two ports are electrically compatible, they can buy an in-line cord that goes from one to the other instead.
Don't go there
There were times when you needed Apple printer and nothing else worked.
EDIT: They didn't look cool...
I know but these are actual industry standard ports that serve us well. I'm talking about these strange modifications that they did on SCSI, PlainTalk mic port, Mini-DVI, ADC etc. What was the purpose of these engineering marvels?
EDIT: You are right with electric compatibility. Therefore, its bound the happen
Don't go there
There were times when you needed Apple printer and nothing else worked.
EDIT: They didn't look cool...
Or work very well. My stylewriter II used to always jam.
Don't go there
There were times when you needed Apple printer and nothing else worked.
EDIT: They didn't look cool...
Haha, I didn't know that, Nuvi.
I figured the printer thing was my own invention, which I made up to kind of illustrate my point.
You're missing my point. The mainboard of the MacBook (and MacBook Pros) are *incredibly* densely packed with chips and traces. Just because the side of the case allows for shifting a component slightly doesn't mean that it can be done without *drastically* impacting the board it's attached to. Shifting 1 component means shifting several traces, which, in turn, require shifting dozens of other traces and chips.
Unless of course you're suggesting moving the headphone socket, without moving it's connection on the mainboard.
Waltzing straight passed my comment and ignoring it to fuel your own narrow mindedness. Everywhere I go with my laptop, I know there will be a DVI cable for me to use, the same cannot be said of some ridiculous Mini DisplayPort to DVI cable. The DVI port is a standard... DisplayPort is slowly becoming one since its set to replace VGA, but Mini DisplayPort is nothing more than a home brew effort by Apple. Whichever way you cut it, they wanted to create a proprietary connector which they have full control over, and they might be allowing manufacturers to license it for free for now, but there is no telling what Apple will chose to do in the future.
You can argue till the cows come home, but the point remains that they could have used the existing DisplayPort connector on the new MacBooks, but as Apple does, shafted the consumer and made its own without consulting anyone.
I have to stick to standards every day... the Mini DisplayPort is not a standard, and certainly wont be for some time, unlike its grown up brother DisplayPort and most certainly unlike DVI. I for one hope no one adopts it other than Apple and it dies an early death.
Ok. Show us where you propose the screw hole can be moved. Don't forget to properly layout the board, including moving all of the impacted chips and traces such that you don't run into any signal problems due to traces of too different a length, or cross-talk between traces.
Go ahead. You said it's easy.
When you think about it, would it have killed Apple to also have say a DVI connector on their new 24" monitor?
Lots of monitors out there with both DVI and VGA, for example.
I mean, have the mini DisplayPort for the new MB, MBA and MBPs, and the rest of us with other Macs ( not to mention a possible broader PC market) could use the DVI, if we chose to get that display.
Can't really see why you would make a monitor that can only works with 3 laptops ( and only the newest models of those, to boot).
I wonder if the updated 20 and 30 inch displays will also be mini DisplayPort when they come out. I would guess that might mean the next MacPro would be using the new proprietary format, which would really limit video card choices.
Lots of monitors out there with both DVI and VGA, for example.
I mean, have the mini DisplayPort for the new MB, MBA and MBPs, and the rest of us with other Macs ( not to mention a possible broader PC market) could use the DVI, if we chose to get that display.
Can't really see why you would make a monitor that can only works with 3 laptops ( and only the newest models of those, to boot).
I wonder if the updated 20 and 30 inch displays will also be mini DisplayPort when they come out. I would guess that might mean the next MacPro would be using the new proprietary format, which would really limit video card choices.
No, I'm not missing the point at all. I've seen more than enough laptop internals, and design documents, to know that components are tightly packed.
The point I'm trying to make, which is being studiously ignored time and time again, is that other laptop manufacturers have managed to fit ports as big as, if not bigger than, Displayport into their laptops that are the same size as, if not smaller than, any of Apples along with at least as many other ports, if not more.
Clearly, the form factor of the MacBook (or MacBook Air) itself, is no justification for either a) not using DP, or b) inventing a proprietry Mini-DP to use in it's stead.
Or, to put it even more bluntly, there isn't a technical reason for Mini-DP to exist. Which means it's yet another example of NIH.
Unless of course you're suggesting moving the headphone socket, without moving it's connection on the mainboard.
No. I am merely suggesting that Apple is not god, not everything they design is perfect, and maybe they could do a better job of serving their customers rather than making them buy new hardware for no good reason.
No problems. Just get me a copy of the design schematics and a suitable fabricating facility.
Now, now. Since the two ports are electrically compatible, they can buy an in-line cord that goes from one to the other instead.
A $30 cord. From Apple. That's the point, and the problem.
Or even more connectors, like the Dell 3008:
CONNECTIVITY
High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI)
Digital Visual Interface - Digital (DVI-D) with High Definition Content Protection (HDCP)
DisplayPort
Video Graphics Array (VGA)
Component Video
Separate Video (S-Video)
Composite Video
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=223-4890
High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI)
Digital Visual Interface - Digital (DVI-D) with High Definition Content Protection (HDCP)
DisplayPort
Video Graphics Array (VGA)
Component Video
Separate Video (S-Video)
Composite Video
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=223-4890
Maybe it will make sense after MWSF'09 when the rest of the monitors get updated.
It certainly doesn't make sense today.
If you do this, you would not be able to use neighbouring ports at the same time.
Due to overmold, the plugs are a bit larger than the hole in the side of the MacBook (Pro), so they need the space between the ports. That's especially true for audio jack plugs, which can be quite bulky.
Apple's notebooks have much less space for ports than other vendors' notebooks. Other vendors usually put ports at three sides, Apple has designed the display hinge in a way that does not allow to use the back for ports - and now, the unibody models even remove the ability to use both left and right hand sides.
You'll still need a cable. It does not matter whether the cable has DP on both ends or MDP on one and DP on the other.
It's even possible that the industry settles on MDP for sources and standard DP for sinks. That would even have the added benefit that one can easily determine whether an adapter for leagacy signals (VGA, DVI, HDMI) is an adapter for a source (e.g. (M)DP->HDMI) or for a sink (HDMI->DP). Source-adapters would have MDP connectors whereas sink-adapters would have DP connectors.
Actually, that would be quite difficult (if not impossible). DVI-I has different wires for analogue and digital signals. DisplayPort does not.
An DP->DVI-I adapter would have to detect the type of signal and switch the connections accordingly. That would probably get so complex and expensive that it's much easier to make a set of two adapters. Futher, carrying a DP->DVI-I adapter and a DVI-I->VGA adapter has no benefit over carrying a DP->DVI-D adapter and a DP->VGA adapter.
DVI became an accepted standard because it gained the mindshare of the OEM manufacturers and through agreed upon licensing was placed on all video card vendors and LCD displays. If those didn't happen it wouldn't be the standard anymore than any other video out port interface.
In fact, the Digital Visual Interface Working Group consists of:
I would wager that if it weren't for then Compaq, IBM and HP with Intel this never would have become a reality. As one may note, nVidia and ATi aren't even in the group and they are the vendors providing the GPUs.
It's amazing how strong-arming becomes a standard.
Apple providing a Royalty Free Interface will only accelerate it to becoming a standard.
I don't think you'll see any DisplayPort (or mini-DP) to dual-link-DVI adapters for as little as £20. The electronics are nontrivial and there won't be enough volume (because cheaper single-link-DVI adapters are good enough for most folks).
It does make sense if you look at it one of two ways.
1) this is special model designed as more or less a laptop dock.
2) Apple is trying to lock users in to their displays. This would explain the lack of standard displayport and HDMI adapters.
Because you've demonstrated such a clear grasp of PCB design and have determined that other design tradeoffs could have been made, without any factual basis for doing so or anything resembling a recognition of other consequences. You propose a change, are presented with its impossibility in the remaining design, and then simply dismiss the new problems as "they can redesign the whole thing to fix those problems, and then the problems created by fixing the first set of fixes, ad nauseum". There's a reason things go through multiple design revisions before the prototype stage.
There was a purposeful move to place all ports on one side, in part to facilitate cable management, which you also complain about. You can't have it both ways.
Oh really? A 3" expanse of plastic on a cell phone or digital camera is "too small" for a regular USB connector, but 8mm on a mainboard is "plenty of room". Right.
Once again. Apple can redesign their entire mainboard to accommodate a larger port, but shockingly the laws of drsmithy physics prevent applying that same logic to an iPod.
Both of which would fit a mini DP connector, and you forget the MacBook Air as well, not to mention future products.
Ironically enough, the sentence in question you couldn't parse was my own. If you were trying for a jab, the correct line would have been "...can't write."
Nothing changed. I never said SCSI and Firewire were consumer breakthroughs, and the entire t
Just as tossing out the odd example utterly fails to prove it. Failing to meet your burden, the argument fails.
It's not being ignored. What you're failing to recognize in making that argument is that every design change comes with a tradeoff. Everything is placed and designed for a reason. If Apple wants to save space or use a particular arrangement in order to create room elsewhere, it's an absurd argument to say that someone else, designing some other product, with some other set of design priorities, could find the room. Of course they could, but it would have other consequences for the design.
Shh. They never adopt, design, or assist in any way technologies they didn't invent. How dare you!
Why?
Why?
Oh, you mean DVI, with its four different standards-compliant connectors?
Why? What if it were to replace the normal connector, allowing high-bandwidth video on a wider range of devices? What if it were integrated into the standard as a B connector? DisplayPort is hardly an established technology.
You all seem to be bitching about nothing. There is no peripheral standard that doesn't have more than one connector type. From serial ports to VGA, and including DVI, HDMI, USB, and Firewire, all of these involved multiple connectors proposed by some subset of the party and later adopted by the standards body. What is the harm? Or are people just looking for something to whine about this week?
The DB-25 SCSI connector (introduced with the MacPlus in January, 1986)
caught on fairly well. For example, Adaptec and other manufacturers used
it on their cards for PCs.
I would say that Apple has been hit-or-miss with its connectors. Some
have been decent, for example the DA-15 monitor port. Apple pretty
much had to invent this because there was no decent standard to adopt,
and having the three sense pins to determine monitor type was clever.
Eventually the PC world created DDC to handle this, and eventually Apple
supported DDC.
Some have been pretty bad, including the aforementioned ADC, which
fortunately I was wise enough to avoid at the time. The HDI-45 "AudioVision"
connector was also pretty bad.
Others I place in the middle, such as the 14-pin flat video connector
used by the early powerbooks.
SCSI: Not sure what you're talking about. Using the DB-25 connector
was Apple's idea, but this was very very early. (Connectors aside, the
MacPlus's SCSI implementation wasn't even completely compliant
because it was so early.)
PlainTalk microphone port: This was actually very clever on Apple's part.
For some reason they wanted to use an external microphone that required
power, so they make an extra-deep socket that provides power at the
bottom. If you insert a standard-length plug it works just fine--absolutely
backward compatible. If you insert the special Apple-only extra-long plug
it gets the power it needs. I don't see how anyone can complain unless
you're trying to use one of these Apple microphones with the extra-long
plug on a PC or older mac, and even then I'm not sure it makes sense to
complain it doesn't fit because even if it did, it would be unpowered and
therefore useless. (Apple did essentially the same trick with the "GeoPort"
serial ports, btw.)