Apple Offers External GPU Enclosure to Developers As Valve Opens Door to VR Mac Gaming

[dstud208]

There are? That will work with High Sierra when it is released? I watched a youtube video and they said it is possible to currently use an external card with Bootcamp but it only works with 2 computers, is hellishly expensive and is fiddly to set up (no good for me as a computer novice).

If these things will work with bootcamp in the future with a tricked out late 2013 iMac I am all over it

I currently run an external GTX 1060 on my 2013 mbp and it's amazing in windows. Doesn't need a secondary computer, just the card and the box. My particular machine is known to be troublesome with egpu's though, sometimes I run into issues when starting up from off (all the way off). When that happens I boot without the egpu, run a script, the reboot with it connected.

Works very good in Mac, works amazing in windows. I suspect most of the disparity between the two os's is the driver quality (beta on Mac) but either way it's mind numbingly powerful in windows, no issues, and no secondary computer required, just that script when starting up from cold every now and again.

Edit: I run sierra, the 1060 worked even better in windows when I had El Capitan (no need for the script) but didn't work at all on the Mac side, in hindsight I could have gotten a 780ti for the same price with the sameish performance and it would have worked on both without the clunky beta drivers.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

This was very interesting to see. Especially the 3D painting/modelling app in the beginning was fascinating. I noticed that there was some considerable loading times in between scenes or sequences?

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Remember to add the price of a Developer account to the box.

Ya know, back in the day, Apple charged $500 per year to be a Registered Developer.

And that was AFTER they APPROVED your "Business Plan", where you filled out a multi-page APPLICATION, asking about everything from your Dunn & Bradstreet rating. to what it was you intended to Develop.

It was like asking for someone's daughter's hand-in-marriage!!!

THEN, and ONLY THEN, you got the PRIVILEGE of paying $500. Every year.

So, just keep that in mind when whining about Developer Registration now.
[doublepost=1496866243][/doublepost]

Oh its almost entirely aimed at professionals I imagine but that doesn't mean that you can artificially jack the prices up from retail. You pay a premium for a mac because you are getting great performance, a great OS and beautifully designed hardware. You can't build that yourself. This is 2 generic off the shelf components that cost ~£520 to buy online and apple want to charge you £799.

So, if they are indeed available "off the shelf", then by all means, BUY THEM OFF THE SHELF!

(rolls eyes)
[doublepost=1496866453][/doublepost]

So this cannot drive the internal display for gaming purposes?

Are you serious?

How would the signals get there?
[doublepost=1496866614][/doublepost]

It appears to be the difference between what they are giving to developers now for testing, and what they will be giving to consumers when their own product is ready.

Dev kits are a common occurrence when final hardware is not ready.

Exactly. It is more indicative of what their internal software team is using for development until in-house hardware is ready.

Think of this as going to eventually be one component of the new MODULAR Mac Pro.

 

[LiE_]

[doublepost=1496866453][/doublepost]
Are you serious?

How would the signals get there?

The same way all other external GPUs work. It's not magic. Looks like Apple have chosen not to support it driving the internal display ala razer core.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

That's why I bought an MSI laptop with GTX1060 in it. It's about the size and weight of my old 17" MBP, but is VR capable and I can play games while on a train (using an Xbox One controller)

Must be a short train ride!
[doublepost=1496869976][/doublepost]

I really wonder why Apple is sticking with AMD...

For example, in the same price/performance bracket the competition is Nvidia's 1060 and the power numbers are scary...
Radeon goes to 200W versus GeForce 120W
And the Nvidia card performs a little bit better, while offering CUDA too.

While I realise that Apple is a proponent of OpenCL, the power consumption and thermal difference that exists should have been enough to tilt the balance from one to the other.

If the iMac manages to dissipate the RX580 200W they could have dissipated the heat of GTX 1070 or 1080 card, top of the line GPUs.

The Conspiracy nut in me wonders if Apple isn't keeping AMD, so the threshold for an in house GPU solution, would be easier to reach.

Perhaps it is year after year of recalls due to poor manufacturing tolerances with nVidia BGA packages, eh?
[doublepost=1496870081][/doublepost]

Ah, you do realise, the new core i9X is just an underpriced xeon, right?

Also, skylake SP was just out last month. How is it old.

Those laptops mite be thin but not as thin as the MBP, and how about the battery life?

You think you can run those laptops on BATTERIES?!? How quaint!
[doublepost=1496870403][/doublepost]

You misunderstand me, I want to go to an apple store and buy a new Pro setup, I want to return to the eco system and have gorgeous minimalist devices around the house, I don't however want to pay full over priced apple pricing for technology that is mid range at best. That is why I am underwhelmed. $5000 for an imac Pro! What do you think the pricing will be on the new Mac Pro if that is the starting point.

Well, considering it doesn't HAVE to come with a 5k display, perhaps it can START for LESS than an iMac Pro.

 

[ErikGrim]

I'm confused about all of this. Can anyone confirm that if I buy one of these I will be able to hook one up to my Retina iMac 2014 and have it drive the internal display or no?

 

[anthorumor]

I predict the new Mac Pro will effectively replace the Mac Mini, and offer an advanced eGPU that requires two thunderbolt connections for even greater bandwidth.

 

[LiE_]

I'm confused about all of this. Can anyone confirm that if I buy one of these I will be able to hook one up to my Retina iMac 2014 and have it drive the internal display or no?

Even if you can, without TB3 the bandwidth will make this a poor choice.

 

[Pakaku]

Actually, this particular GPU (8gb) is incredibly difficult to find (thanks to miners). I've been trying to snag one for some time. Usually out of stock or over priced...I see them averaging closer to $300-400. With that in mind, you're right the apple bundle is in fact a great deal!

Alternatively, the RX 480 uses the same chip and can be snagged in the same price range.

I've always been an Nvidia guy, never understood AMD, so I don't know the equivalent. Maybe it's more accessible/cheaper to consider Nvidia?

 

[diamond.g]

I wonder if Valve is going to update Steam from 32bit to 64bit.... It sure is 32bit on Windows still...

 

[dilbert99]

wow, that box looks massive.

 

[JWatt68]

Must be a short train ride!
[doublepost=1496869976][/doublepost]
Perhaps it is year after year of recalls due to poor manufacturing tolerances with nVidia BGA packages, eh?
[doublepost=1496870081][/doublepost]
You think you can run those laptops on BATTERIES?!? How quaint!
[doublepost=1496870403][/doublepost]
Well, considering it doesn't HAVE to come with a 5k display, perhaps it can START for LESS than an iMac Pro.

I bought a Razer Blade Pro V2 with GTX 1080 so that I could work on the move, I travel first class on trains, so always have a power point available. What marketing genius at Apple would release a new flagship top of the range Mac Pro at a starting point less than the iMac Pro ... do that and you may as well throw iMac Pro stock remaining in the bin. No pro user is ever going to buy a non upgradeable all in one that costs more than a modular, fully upgradeable Mac Pro ...

 

[LeeTBTS]

This was very interesting to see. Especially the 3D painting/modelling app in the beginning was fascinating. I noticed that there was some considerable loading times in between scenes or sequences?

That's just me doing Things in home that isnt mirrored, nothing takes longer than 30 seconds.

 

[Spendlove]

It will work in b


I had Elite Dangerous on TB1 / 660 / Mac Mini running just fine at 720. That was the sweet spot for TB1. TB2 I would think would handle 2K ok.

4K on my gaming PC, its hard to keep 60fps with everything maxed out on a 1080Ti or 2x980Ti so TB3 wont fair any better. Plus the heat, burned through one 980 Ti.

Are you sure? If a late 2013 iMac can use one I am straight in to buy one.
[doublepost=1496944616][/doublepost]

I currently run an external GTX 1060 on my 2013 mbp and it's amazing in windows. Doesn't need a secondary computer, just the card and the box. My particular machine is known to be troublesome with egpu's though, sometimes I run into issues when starting up from off (all the way off). When that happens I boot without the egpu, run a script, the reboot with it connected.

Works very good in Mac, works amazing in windows. I suspect most of the disparity between the two os's is the driver quality (beta on Mac) but either way it's mind numbingly powerful in windows, no issues, and no secondary computer required, just that script when starting up from cold every now and again.

Edit: I run sierra, the 1060 worked even better in windows when I had El Capitan (no need for the script) but didn't work at all on the Mac side, in hindsight I could have gotten a 780ti for the same price with the sameish performance and it would have worked on both without the clunky beta drivers.

Do we have the same ports? Late 2013 iMac and 2013 MBP? Is Sierra your default system on the partition (i.e., does the computer boot to Sierra from a restart)?

I am keen to try this if it works. My iMac is a beast (for the time) but could do with a graphics boost for gaming on Bootcamp.

EDIT - I checked and my iMac has 2 x Thunderbolt 1 ports the same as an early 2013 MBP but the late 2013 mac book pro has Thunderbolt 2.

Which one is yours?

 

[elev8d]

And Oculus is owned by Facebook, so there is that whole privacy issue thing.

Well I guess it matters to me if I'm setting up a bunch of tracking cameras in my house and Facebook decides to use those cameras.

 

[dstud208]

Are you sure? If a late 2013 iMac can use one I am straight in to buy one.
[doublepost=1496944616][/doublepost]

Do we have the same ports? Late 2013 iMac and 2013 MBP? Is Sierra your default system on the partition (i.e., does the computer boot to Sierra from a restart)?

I am keen to try this if it works. My iMac is a beast (for the time) but could do with a graphics boost for gaming on Bootcamp.

EDIT - I checked and my iMac has 2 x Thunderbolt 1 ports the same as an early 2013 MBP but the late 2013 mac book pro has Thunderbolt 2.

Which one is yours?

Mine is the late 2013, I have TB2 ports, a quick google search says that I get a ~15-20% performance loss and you would get ~20-25%, so still worth doing if you can find an affordable card that's still way better than what you have internally even at 75% performance. For me taking a ~17% hit on a 1060 is totally worth it as it still clobbers my internal 750m.

Once high sierra comes out I'm going to try and talk my brother into doing this, he has your exact same computer (ish) with TB1, but by then he'll probably be able to pick up a 780ti or something that's still fantastic for $150 or less. The only thing is currently if you wanna go hack free high sierra only drives an external monitor, it won't use the card for the internal one (fixable via hacks, but my brother isn't into that).

I have it boot into macOS as default, it doesn't appear to make a difference with regards to the issue I mentioned in my past post. Basically if I haven't run the script yet, booting my computer with the card attached freezes the boot process before it even picks a boot drive (or at least it does it regardless of the "default" one). To fix it I have to boot with the card turned off, login to Mac, turn on the card, run the script, then reboot into Mac/windows. I usually only have to do that after I run windows, if I stick to Mac it seems to work just fine. And according to Internet forum people it also seems to be limited to my particular model of computer. So you ~probably~ wouldn't have that issue.

 

[Spendlove]

Mine is the late 2013, I have TB2 ports, a quick google search says that I get a ~15-20% performance loss and you would get ~20-25%, so still worth doing if you can find an affordable card that's still way better than what you have internally even at 75% performance. For me taking a ~17% hit on a 1060 is totally worth it as it still clobbers my internal 750m.

Once high sierra comes out I'm going to try and talk my brother into doing this, he has your exact same computer (ish) with TB1, but by then he'll probably be able to pick up a 780ti or something that's still fantastic for $150 or less. The only thing is currently if you wanna go hack free high sierra only drives an external monitor, it won't use the card for the internal one (fixable via hacks, but my brother isn't into that).

I have it boot into macOS as default, it doesn't appear to make a difference with regards to the issue I mentioned in my past post. Basically if I haven't run the script yet, booting my computer with the card attached freezes the boot process before it even picks a boot drive (or at least it does it regardless of the "default" one). To fix it I have to boot with the card turned off, login to Mac, turn on the card, run the script, then reboot into Mac/windows. I usually only have to do that after I run windows, if I stick to Mac it seems to work just fine. And according to Internet forum people it also seems to be limited to my particular model of computer. So you ~probably~ wouldn't have that issue.

I forgot about needing an external monitor. Pretty pointless with an iMac. So even with High Sierra we will still need another monitor to use the external GPU? I see you mentioned a hack for High Sierra to allow use of the internal iMac screen. Something else to look into perhaps nearer the time when High Sierra launches - Apple might have fixed it by then so you can use the proper iMac screen and again with the problems you are having using the card and switching between systems.

I am still very keen to try this but I am slightly worried that as a computer novice it is going too far for me and I will get it wrong, spend a whole load of money on something that just does not work with the iMac late 2013.

 

[foxman2k]

Could you please explain how did you make it? Tried multiply times on similar configuration (2015) and Occulus utility/drivers even does not install (Bootcamp with latest Apple drivers on Win10 with the last updates).

Thx

 

[shadowmatt]

Are you sure? If a late 2013 iMac can use one I am straight in to buy one.
[doublepost=1496944616][/doublepost]

Do we have the same ports? Late 2013 iMac and 2013 MBP? Is Sierra your default system on the partition (i.e., does the computer boot to Sierra from a restart)?

I am keen to try this if it works. My iMac is a beast (for the time) but could do with a graphics boost for gaming on Bootcamp.

EDIT - I checked and my iMac has 2 x Thunderbolt 1 ports the same as an early 2013 MBP but the late 2013 mac book pro has Thunderbolt 2.

Which one is yours?

This is my mac mini, before adding the card, check the motherboard manufacturer http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1838246

This is after http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1839002

That Mac Mini is thunderbolt 1, 2012 Macmini6,2.

The problem with say, an iMac, is that it would need to have a video in, or a Nvidia GPU so you could use the main display. ATI chips just don't support that and you have to use the video out on the graphics card.

Im guessing Apple has solved that problem with new drivers etc... As they are defiantly doing that now. On older OSX you just edited 2 plist files to make the mac check thunderbolt for a GPU on boot and it would use that card as the main output.

Obviously it is all much easier in Windows + Nvidia as it all just kinda works.

 

[Spendlove]

This is my mac mini, before adding the card, check the motherboard manufacturer http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1838246

This is after http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1839002

That Mac Mini is thunderbolt 1, 2012 Macmini6,2.

The problem with say, an iMac, is that it would need to have a video in, or a Nvidia GPU so you could use the main display. ATI chips just don't support that and you have to use the video out on the graphics card.

Im guessing Apple has solved that problem with new drivers etc... As they are defiantly doing that now. On older OSX you just edited 2 plist files to make the mac check thunderbolt for a GPU on boot and it would use that card as the main output.

Obviously it is all much easier in Windows + Nvidia as it all just kinda works.

If I understand your post correctly you are saying that a Late 2013 iMac with Thunderbolt 1 could potentially use the internal display if -

1. I had High Sierra installed.
2. I had a Nvidea card in the external GPU box.

And it would work in Windows bootcamp as well as OSX?

 

[kralnor]

oops

 

[kralnor]

Even if you can, without TB3 the bandwidth will make this a poor choice.

It would still be an improvement over the card he currently has in there.

 

[ErikGrim]

It would still be an improvement over the card he currently has in there.

This is what I'm wondering. Even with bandwidth limitations, would I see an improvement over the M295X?

 

[padams35]

If I understand your post correctly you are saying that a Late 2013 iMac with Thunderbolt 1 could potentially use the internal display if -

1. I had High Sierra installed.
2. I had a Nvidea card in the external GPU box.

And it would work in Windows bootcamp as well as OSX?

I can't speak for Windows and I haven't tried High Sierra since "become paid apple developer" is ranked after "learn swift" on my todo list but...

1. High Sierra is not necessary if you are willing to make kext edits.
2. Nvidea is not required. (I've used an RX 460 eGPU on a TB1 2011 iMac.)
3. An external monitor (real or faux) IS required.
4. A non-retina internal monitor is required (for internal screen acceleration).

Under Sierra applications default to using the gpu associated with the monitor they started on. As a result if you set an eGPU connected display as primary and launch a game in windowed mode you can drag it over to the internal display where it will continue to be accelerated by the eGPU. Doing so is usually not recommended since that adds a frame rate penalty but it can be done... unless you have a 5K. Reports indicate that the retina magic gets in the way somehow.

 

[Spendlove]

I can't speak for Windows and I haven't tried High Sierra since "become paid apple developer" is ranked after "learn swift" on my todo list but...

1. High Sierra is not necessary if you are willing to make kext edits.
2. Nvidea is not required. (I've used an RX 460 eGPU on a TB1 2011 iMac.)
3. An external monitor (real or faux) IS required.
4. A non-retina internal monitor is required.

Under Sierra applications default to using the gpu associated with the monitor they started on. As a result if you set an eGPU connected display as primary and launch a game in windowed mode you can drag it over to the internal display where it will continue to be accelerated by the eGPU. Doing so is usually not recommended since that adds a frame rate penalty but it can be done... unless you have a 5K. Reports indicate that the retina magic gets in the way somehow.

If these restrictions do not apply to Windows then I am happy as I don't do gaming on the Mac.