Apple Offers External GPU Enclosure to Developers As Valve Opens Door to VR Mac Gaming

[dspdoc]

I tried out the Vive last Fall and was quite impressed with its capabilities. There is NO way any of the current Macs could handle it, let alone iMac Pro or better. I almost was going to order a new PC and the Vive because I do digital 2D digital art and traditional, and the digital brush in a VR environment is catching on. I know because some creative professionals are jumping into this technology as a tool to create visual imagery and 3D illustration. A recent ImagineFX magazine had an article on that, I believe, from last month. Fascinating.
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My understanding is that, it's supposed to work with the new iMacs or laptops powering the machine itself, not the other way around. Think of it as an add-on. Kind of like what SEGA did with the Genesis buy adding a 32X on top of it, creating 32-bit capabilities over a 16-bit machine.

Oh, and great nickname. I have a studio named just that except it's 'inner' . But it's cool to see another studio similarly named like mine. Although I do visual arts.

Thanks for the info, yep it's a great studio name!

 

[shadowmatt]

This news made my day. Very unexpected considering it could render high MacBook Pro sales moot if you can deal with an eGPU setup.

You always could, you just needed to edit 2 plist files

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1839002
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Awwww noooooo. That is a HUGE shame it not working in Bootcamp. This was an instant buy but now just a distant dream. There are no games on the native Mac OS that need this! (I am coming from a gaming point of view, not a hardcore application point of view).

You need Windows 8 and above to install in EFI mode so it can use and see the GPU at boot. Bootcamp kinds bones the Windows partition and doesnt allow that.

To get it to work, you install Windows first, have windows format a partition / disk for OSX. Boot into the OSX installer, format that partition and install.
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Management conflicts. Apple doesn't like vendors who don't work for them.

Stay tuned, we're preparing a guide on building your own eGPU development kit.

There are lots of enclosures out there that can work, and have done for years.
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1839002

Something like this will be good enough and its TB2 https://www.amazon.com/Akitio-Thunder2-PCIe-Box-intended/dp/B00LTAUTHE

But they do TB3 as well https://www.akitio.com/expansion/node

I had a 660 in a ViDock > thunderbolt adapter > mac mini a few years ago and that was able to run Elite Dangerous, DayZ etc... not too badly for the time. https://www.facebook.com/VillageViDock/

 

[aliensporebomb]

You guys reckon that this would work with Thunderbolt 2?

At Frontier Development forums (Elite Dangerous) someone already has this working under TB2 with Windows/Boot Camp.

 

[wigby]

More games are developed for consumption on iOS than for any other platform on the planet, they are interested in games, why wouldn't Apple also want that for the Mac?! These eGPU's are a first step, you get to retain your slim hardware for portability and then when you are fixed use this box for graphics intensive applications, be it gaming only, VR or both.

I hope I'm wrong and they have changed but I'm just basing my opinion on 20 years of hollow promises from Apple on games. iOS became a game heavy platform despite Apple. Jobs notoriously hated games. Maybe Cook or someone else there has a soft spot for games.

 

[melendezest]

This is the single best news to come out of WWDC (or any Apple Keynote, really) since 2011.

Let's see if it is everything we (who are interested in this) hope it is.

 

[wigby]

I do a lot of editing in 4k for my work, something an 8 core mac pro with dual d700 struggles with at times? Why cant they make an ultimate Mac Pro within oh lets say the last 4 years that doesn't give me the coloured spinning wheel or constant fails within Adobe After Effects whilst rendering compositions! Its not always about gamers, its simply about raw power and cost. Neither of which yesterdays announcement delivered for me.

I hear you. I do 4k in FCPX on an iMac but don't get the spinning wheel very often. Renders are fast but overall speed and lagginess could be improved so I'm anxious for an iMac upgrade. But even the Pro iMac might be overkill for me. I recently upgraded all Adobe apps to CC 2017 and I have to say that with the exception of lingering bugs, all of my 7 year old Adobe apps ran smoother than these new ones. Do yourself a favor and avoid Adobe apps with Apple hardware when you you can. I've heard nothing good about Premiere and AE.

On the bright side, the New Mac Pro in 2018 should be a beast and right up your alley.

 

[bsbeamer]

I hear you. I do 4k in FCPX on an iMac but don't get the spinning wheel very often. Renders are fast but overall speed and lagginess could be improved so I'm anxious for an iMac upgrade. But even the Pro iMac might be overkill for me. I recently upgraded all Adobe apps to CC 2017 and I have to say that with the exception of lingering bugs, all of my 7 year old Adobe apps ran smoother than these new ones. Do yourself a favor and avoid Adobe apps with Apple hardware when you you can. I've heard nothing good about Premiere and AE.

On the bright side, the New Mac Pro in 2018 should be a beast and right up your alley.

Not sure where you're getting your information, but Adobe CC 2017 is working great for MANY Mac video users, even those on older 4,1 and 5,1 MacPro's that have been tweaked and upgraded. A lot comes down to the end user setting up their machines the right way and managing a project correctly from the start. Just tossing stuff around and hoping Dynamic Link can fix your problems is one way to get fed up quickly.

 

[hipnetic]

Just curious...could something like this be connected to a high-end Mac Mini for VR? That model has an Intel i5 chip. Does VR require a higher-end CPU, or just a high-end GPU?

FWIW, I just bought a PS4 Pro and PlayStation VR a couple of days ago. I'm not a gamer, but I was intrigued by VR and I've been having a lot of fun with this over the last couple of days. I didn't want to spend the extra money on on buying/building a dedicated PC and HTC Vive, but now with this news, I could see going the Mac/Vive/Steam route later. Until that option gets officially released, I'll continue to play with my PS4/VR setup.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Not sure where you're getting your information, but Adobe CC 2017 is working great for MANY Mac video users, even those on older 4,1 and 5,1 MacPro's that have been tweaked and upgraded.

I've been an Adobe beta tester since 2004.

It's really disappointing when people claim a 7 year old version of Creative Suite is better. I can only chalk it up to this sad argument that subscription software is bad. Every time I hear that there's a pirate right in front of me. Every single time, bar none.

CC2017 is better in every single way compared to previous versions. The improvements year upon year ever since CC started have been fantastic. 15-20 years ago the amount of money we would have to pay for even a yearly upgrade was far beyond anything we pay today.

It will be great to see Metal 2 implemented throughout CC. Until now Adobe has been in the OpenCL camp mostly.

 

[UL2RA]

It will be great to see Metal 2 implemented throughout CC. Until now Adobe has been in the OpenCL camp mostly.

Are they actually going to support Metal? That'd be nice.

 

[Wahlstrm]

Haha! Haha! External gpus! What could be more awkward than that?

Having internal dGPUs that contantly fail?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Are they actually going to support Metal? That'd be nice.

They did start in Premiere last year but because Metal wasn't mature it's not recommended yet. HS should change that.
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Having internal dGPUs that contantly fail?

haha

But eGPU can be awkward for those who just don't organise desk space for it. It's best shoved out of the way but I can understand if people don't have space for it.

 

[ChrisA]

So I went on the US site for this and it was $599 then I tried to get it from the UK store and its coming up at £799 when I go through the checkout. Does the US site up the price at checkout as well or are we just getting royally screwed on price in the UK?

Yes, you have a low dollar/pound exchange rate now and VAT.

In the US each locality has something like VAT but it varies from 0 to 10 percent and they do add this to the price. But in the UK (I think) VAT is always included in the price, not tacked on after during checkout. (In the US they have to tack in on because they don't know the tax rate until they see your address.)


Here in Los Angeles I'd see $600 web price and at checkout pay about $660.
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So, this means that it is locked to a specific AMD GPU model ?

I think most people making comments here are consumers wanting to play games. To you guys: You are going to have to use the bundled GPU because that is what the software will be written for, yes the hardware can support other GPUs.

Apparently the case can support other GPUs up to 250 Watts. But I think Apple's software (OpenCL and the like) is only going to run on the bundled GPU.



But seeing as this box is aimed at developers (You must be signed up as a developer to buy this) and maybe the developer (like me) is interested in Machine learning and computer vision and such a developer really needs a GTX1080.

Put really I already have an external 1080. It is inside a Linux PC that I can ssh into from my iMac.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

No CUDA support? No Nvidia options?

RIP deep learning.

How long will it take the popular deep learning frameworks to support metal 2 or OpenGL?...

Um, did you watch the keynote? https://developer.apple.com/machine-learning/

 

[mkeeley]

Brexit tax.

Anyway, an external GPU seems a little clunky given the Mac's design philosophy for so long. I presume this is aimed at professionals rather than consumers....

Thought's that was wh

I've been an Adobe beta tester since 2004.

It's really disappointing when people claim a 7 year old version of Creative Suite is better. I can only chalk it up to this sad argument that subscription software is bad. Every time I hear that there's a pirate right in front of me. Every single time, bar none.

CC2017 is better in every single way compared to previous versions. The improvements year upon year ever since CC started have been fantastic. 15-20 years ago the amount of money we would have to pay for even a yearly upgrade was far beyond anything we pay today.

It will be great to see Metal 2 implemented throughout CC. Until now Adobe has been in the OpenCL camp mostly.

Subscription is bad, it's not a sad argument.

 

[bsbeamer]

Apparently the case can support other GPUs up to 250 Watts. But I think Apple's software (OpenCL and the like) is only going to run on the bundled GPU.

That is incorrect. There are two versions of the box being released

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/egfx-breakaway-box.html

GPU-350W-TB3Z eGFX Breakaway Box Thunderbolt 3-to-eGPU Expansion System w/350W Power Supply
GPU-550W-TB3 eGFX Breakaway Box Thunderbolt 3-to-eGPU Expansion System w/550W Power Supply

Internal Connector (Part No. GPU-350W-TB3Z)
One 8-pin plus one 6-pin PCIe power connector
Supports up to 300W PCIe card

Internal Connector (Part No. GPU-550W-TB3)
Two 8-pin PCIe power connectors
Supports 375W+ PCIe card

Available with 350W or 550W
Power Supply


According to their press release
https://www.sonnettech.com/news/pr2017/pr060117_egfxbreakawaybox.html

Sonnet will offer two eGFX Breakaway Box models, the eGFX Breakaway Box 350 and eGFX Breakaway Box 550, enabling the user to select the one best suited to his or her needs. The eGFX Breakaway Box 350 includes one 8-pin and one 6-pin auxiliary power connector, supports cards requiring 300W or less of power, and provides 15W of upstream power. The eGFX Breakaway Box 550 includes dual 8-pin auxiliary power connectors, supports cards requiring 375W+ of power, and provides 87W of upstream power, useful for charging a notebook computer.

eGFX Breakaway Box 350 (part number GPU-350W-TB3Z) is expected to be available in early July 2017 with an MSRP of $299. eGFX Breakaway Box 550 (part number GPU-550W-TB3) is expected to be available late in the third quarter of 2017 with an MSRP of $349. More information on the products is available at www.sonnettech.com/product/egfx-breakaway-box.html.

 

[elev8d]

Who else would they work with - its either Valve or Oculus...

And Oculus is owned by Facebook, so there is that whole privacy issue thing.

 

[Stella]

And Oculus is owned by Facebook, so there is that whole privacy issue thing.

Yes I know, Facebook owns Oculus - but I don't see that really matters.

It didn't stop Apple having Facebook integration into both OSX and iOS.

 

[DevNull0]

I've been an Adobe beta tester since 2004.

It's really disappointing when people claim a 7 year old version of Creative Suite is better. I can only chalk it up to this sad argument that subscription software is bad. Every time I hear that there's a pirate right in front of me. Every single time, bar none.

Right after Adobe announced CC, I went out and bought a retail box version os CS6 Design standard (all I really use is Photoshop and InDesign) to upgrade from CS3. I'm still using CS6 today.

If there ever comes a point where I can't use CS6, I will pirate CC. I say that as someone who does not pirate software and I'm quite willing to buy a perpetual licence for software. But I won't rent software.

 

[sashimimi]

I may be completely off, but before supporting eGPUs makes any sense, shouldn't Apple get their sh*t right and properly implement (a modern version of) OpenGL ? I mean, what's the point in supporting costly heavy duty gfx hardware if it's to get out of it a fraction of the performance windows would ?

 

[foxkoneko]

I'm not familiar with how these work but can an imac take advantage of this for video editing in final cut pro?

 

[jjjoseph]

I may be completely off, but before supporting eGPUs makes any sense, shouldn't Apple get their sh*t right and properly implement (a modern version of) OpenGL ? I mean, what's the point in supporting costly heavy duty gfx hardware if it's to get out of it a fraction of the performance windows would ?

OpenGL is a dinosaur soon to be forgotten. Metal/Metal2 for Vega/AMD hardware, and OpenCL and CUDA for specific operations of an image are the future on OS X.

Metal2 is lightyears past the archaic and horrible OpenGL..
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I'm not familiar with how these word but can an imac take advantage of this for video editing in final cut pro?

When it is setup right, yes.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I'm mixed on this. I'm happy Apple is finally giving a **** about this stuff, but what I'd really love is a mid-range Mac pro kind of configuration. No xeons, no pro GPU; just the kind of thing you'd put together if you were building a gaming PC, but running OS X.

That said, this, the largest dongle yet , is at least a step in the right direction

It also explains why Nvidia will be providing OS X drivers for the 1080, etc

Even IF Apple were to offer such a thing, what would they charge? An iMac Pro STARTS at $5000. I remember not so long ago when a base Mac Pro (cheese grater tower) started at $2000. Now a Macbook Pro 15" starts at $2400 and with a 1TB SSD drive and quad-i7 costs over $3000! Who the hell can get by these days with a 250GB drive????? Who???? People that don't use their computer AT ALL? It's ridiculous. And the new iMacs STILL come with garbage 5400 RPM "hybrid" hard drives!!! With a MacOS that HATES rotational drives now (my mother's 2012 Macbook Pro 13" runs like MOLASSES since the last two OS "upgrades") and I'm pretty sure it's just the hard drive as the OS demands to load multiple things at once now and a rotational drive simply cannot do it. OS X used to handle such drives just fine. It would assign a linear amount of time to each task to load. Now it just tries to load everything all at once (a strong suit of SSDs and HELL for a rotational). The geniuses at Apple just can't seem to detect what's being used and adjust accordingly.... Meanwhile, the rest of the world is paying LESS for computers while we pay like it's 1985!

So what does a 1TB SSD 16GB 21.5" (small monitor by today's standards) iMac cost? About $2600 ($2800 with maxed CPU). 27"? Well over $3000. A few years back, $3000 bought you quite a nice Mac Pro setup and you could use any monitor you want or already have (I have two 28" monitors sitting here already plus a 24" and 22" available; I don't really 'need' any more monitors).

What did my 2012 Mac Mini Quad-i7 with 2TB RAID0 internal drives (which helps make up for being rotational drives) with 8GB of RAM cost? $1100 from an Apple store! The only thing is lacks is a great GPU (but then what Mac had a truly great one up until now?) I could have had THREE of those for the price of one of these new iMacs. So I'm supposed to move to a computer that defaults with 1TB Hybrid drive. I need 2TB just to move my internal hard drive over (I have another 8TB external connected). No such option period on a 21.5" iMac even with standard rotational drives, which is strange since they sell 4TB+ 2.5" internal drives now. It's a mess.

The newer Mac Mini (which is still old) didn't even offer quad-cores period or i7s or two internal drives. It was an utter POS. Thanks Apple for showing what you CAN do and then turning around and CRAPPING ON US. I see there is still no new Mac Mini option. Why? Well, you might just buy one of those Thunderbolt III graphics cards and get a functional Mac that can actually GAME now for a total under $1200 and they sure as HELL don't want THAT.

 

[D.T.]

Just curious...could something like this be connected to a high-end Mac Mini for VR? That model has an Intel i5 chip. Does VR require a higher-end CPU, or just a high-end GPU?

FWIW, I just bought a PS4 Pro and PlayStation VR a couple of days ago. I'm not a gamer, but I was intrigued by VR and I've been having a lot of fun with this over the last couple of days. I didn't want to spend the extra money on on buying/building a dedicated PC and HTC Vive, but now with this news, I could see going the Mac/Vive/Steam route later. Until that option gets officially released, I'll continue to play with my PS4/VR setup.

I don't see why a Mini wouldn't work, MacOS + TB2/3 is pretty much the formula, a Mini with a stout external GPU would be a slick setup.

Yeah, the PS4/VR is pretty terrific, I've been involved in AR/VR for a few years (developer/consulting), so I came up with the products being: 1) expensive and 2) very "hobbyist" in terms of setup/config, vs. current consumer products like the PS4/VR where it's something anyone can setup in 10 minutes

 

[antonis]

Yes, you have a low dollar/pound exchange rate now and VAT.

In the US each locality has something like VAT but it varies from 0 to 10 percent and they do add this to the price. But in the UK (I think) VAT is always included in the price, not tacked on after during checkout. (In the US they have to tack in on because they don't know the tax rate until they see your address.)


Here in Los Angeles I'd see $600 web price and at checkout pay about $660.
[doublepost=1496778831][/doublepost]

I think most people making comments here are consumers wanting to play games. To you guys: You are going to have to use the bundled GPU because that is what the software will be written for, yes the hardware can support other GPUs.

Apparently the case can support other GPUs up to 250 Watts. But I think Apple's software (OpenCL and the like) is only going to run on the bundled GPU.



But seeing as this box is aimed at developers (You must be signed up as a developer to buy this) and maybe the developer (like me) is interested in Machine learning and computer vision and such a developer really needs a GTX1080.

Put really I already have an external 1080. It is inside a Linux PC that I can ssh into from my iMac.

Yes, that was my point. Besides games, there is a vast number of people out there that need CUDA. It seems that apple managed to leave a lot of people out in the cold, again, when they really didn't have to.

On a side note: how's the eGPU works under linux ? are you satisfied with it ?