Likely the it can do everything factor some like, I know I do, run any program, run any media meaning sd cards, dvd's blu-rays etc... gaming if one so choices. Now if a system could do that and run both Windows and OS X one could do everything.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Offers Sneak Peek of Completely Redesigned Mac Pro
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Likely the it can do everything factor some like, I know I do, run any program, run any media meaning sd cards, dvd's blu-rays etc... gaming if one so choices. Now if a system could do that and run both Windows and OS X one could do everything.
Err....no it doesn't. It IS the pricing for the new machines! Quoted directly from their page > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/11/australian_apple_tax_repealed_for_macbook_air/
'The latter either aren't on sale yet or won't be offered to Australians, so we'll ignore them and go straight for the new Air and Pro.
First we take the $US and $AUD prices of the new products, for a straight comparison.'.
I think there's a "gaming" gap in Apple's Mac lineup period. No iMac has a good enough video card either and one shouldn't have to buy a monitor with their new computer if they don't want one (but the Mac Mini is even worse for gaming). Apple has always treated gaming like a chicken/egg thing. They intimate if more gaming arrives they might support it (well we are seeing some controller support options in iOS7 now) and YET who is going to buy a Mac without proper gaming hardware being available? Is a catch-22 and it's killing Mac gaming. The sad thing is that with Boot Camp, there IS a real use for gaming hardware even if OSX doesn't get all the support right away. The problem is Apple REFUSES to offer gaming level hardware. Yes, you can get a Hackintosh, but then you can do the same instead of a Mac Pro. It doesn't change the fact that Apple is ignoring an entire market segment and that we OSX users have to pay for their lack of vision (but hey, they're making money...so they must know best, right? I'm sure that's why their stock has been dropping like a stone, lately because they KNOW what they're doing).
Some of what you have said here isn't entirely accurate. The new iMacs actually have a very good gaming card, the 680mx, up until a few weeks ago the 680mx was the 10th best video card out there, it dropped to 13th with the arrival of the Titan, 780 and 770. It's a very good card playing the latest games at ultra or high graphical settings at full resolution, and it overclocks pretty good as well. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
There is actually a very long thread on the Mac Rumors forums about how great the new iMacs are for gaming, That said, in a few years that card wont be top of the line and not upgradeable. Also, the MP's have had decent, not top of the line, but pretty good video cards available as upgrades, I should know I've upgraded the vid card in my aging Mac Pro twice. And now, the 680 has been announced for the MP, that is the 4th best gaming card available, and until very recently was the best.
The problem from my point of view has been the display. The iMac display is good, but it's not a great display. It's glossy, which is a pain looking anything that is dark, it's brightness is not uniform over the whole screen area. The iMac has 12 bit color depth whereas professional color accurate displays offer a wide color gamut, 14-bit. Displays can die sooner than computers can so in the case of an iMac you may have to dump the whole computer sooner than you would like because the monitor dims to a point where it cant be profiled. Also, adding internal drives was nice compared to the iMac. And, when working in Photoshop on a 16 bit image from a 60 mega pixel camera (Hasselblad) with 40 layers, things slow down even on the latest iMacs. So, no a Mac Pro is not overkill. Plus lots of photographers are getting into Video, I may, so there's that.
Anyone else forgot to notice that there is no kensington or some form of security lock on the chassis?
Are you sure? There's certainly something on their that has a lock icon. Look at the I/O part.
----------
You've not done your homework thoroughly have you?
The W5000 is but one of the range of FirePro cards. Apple says up to 6GB VRAM, (maybe the W9000), you've chosen a 2GB card to compare. Why not wait and see if they have a special version in store?
EDIT: I stand corrected. That lock icon is for taking the top off. Having looked through all of the animations carefully I reckon there's a lot more than people think that's upgradeable about this Mac.
I know it's just an animation but anybody notice that the GPUs are different at the bottom?
Considering that this is the least popular Mac, this thread has generated 1200 posts in a tremendously short time!!
Last edited:
One of the main limitations of CUDA is that it is GPGPU bound. OpenCL works with CPU, GPGPU, DSP or any other programmable device kernels can be written for with the OpenCL [Open Computing Language] approach.
----------
AMD and Apple are CPU/GPGPU OpenCL 1.2 vendors.
Adobe is on the OpenCL bandwagon and Premiere Pro is fully OpenCL 1.2 ready with AMD.
http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2013/05/improved-gpu-support-in-adobe-premiere-pro-cc.html
CUDA is landlocked to the GPGPU. OpenCL is not. Let's talk in 18 months where Adobe is with CUDA versus OpenCL. I'll wager OpenCL moving forward and Nvidia will either drop CUDA or be left out.
Most of the New Nvidia cards are openCL as well as CUDA. I am sure they will keep both. There are some specific CUDA tricks but more applicable to Scientific data crunching
There's a 4 bay 19" rack mounted eSATA system from Sonnet for about £240. It supports various RAID levels but also supports JBOD with a port multiplier card.
This would solve your issue but then when you look at the options for adding eSATA support, things go bad.
1) Buy a Lacie Thunderbolt to eSATA system for £150. It doesn't support port-multiplier so it's a dead end from the start.
2) Buy a Sonnet Tempo SATA Pro Express Card for £100 which does support port-multiplier and add a Sonnet Echo ExpressCard Pro for £150 to use with it.
That's over £500 with cabling just to use 4 drives!
The first company offering a Thunderbolt to eSATA/SATA system with multiple Thunderbolt ports and port-multiplier support or even a basic Thunderbolt to multiple SATA drive bays for a non-rediculous price is going to make a mint off everyone migrating to the new Mac Pro.
There's isn't a single affordable Thunderbolt solution out there that's either a basic Thunderbolt to multi-SATA 6Gb/s system that shows up as multiple drives or Thunderbolt to PCIe system in existence that provides interfacing to basic multi-drive SATA systems with passthrough eSATA to SATA ports!
Apple should be providing these solutions because they're for problems they've created.
Last edited:
Say again, who hasn't done their homework?
A Firepro card is not going to beat a top-end Nvidia card for gaming.
VRAM has very little to do with video card performance. 2GB vs 4GB Memory
A 2GB GTX 680 will out perform any Firepro card when it comes to gaming.
Last edited:
OpenCL looks like a major selling point of these machines. Anyone know any specifics about how well it is suited for audio? Would it be possible for Logic to be coded to put plugins on the video card, or would audio processing not work well on that sort of processing hardware?
That wording makes it sound that way, but they either worded it wrong or they were just making a wild guess. And any of us can make a wild guess that's just as accurate. It's a useful article for comparing the overseas pricing and how it has changed, but worthless for info about the future MP.
I think this is the key. Most existing MP users aren't using eSATA, they're mainly using firewire drives or internal. A box that holds three drives and hooks up to TB (2) would put a lot of the issues to rest. And at this point it might as well be 2.5 inch bays for SSD, if people have internal 3.5 hard drives those aren't that fast and might as well go into USB3 cases, which are plentiful and dirt cheap.
TB is generally expensive, but how much would a 3x2.5 drive have to cost? It seems like it should be able to be fairly small, shouldn't have very high power requirements, and shouldn't get super hot. Is there really any reason something like that should cost more than say $200? This is definitely one item that would be great for Apple to make, and price it competitively since it would boost sales of these new MP and speed adoption of TB. Heck, at this point they should be selling all their TB cables and adapters at cost just to try and make the port a success.
The people who are really stuck are those who spent a fortune on SSD on a PCI card, but I would guess there probably aren't a ton of mac users with those.
That wording makes it sound that way, but they either worded it wrong or they were just making a wild guess. And any of us can make a wild guess that's just as accurate. It's a useful article for comparing the overseas pricing and how it has changed, but worthless for info about the future MP.
I think this is the key. Most existing MP users aren't using eSATA, they're mainly using firewire drives or internal. A box that holds three drives and hooks up to TB (2) would put a lot of the issues to rest. And at this point it might as well be 2.5 inch bays for SSD, if people have internal 3.5 hard drives those aren't that fast and might as well go into USB3 cases, which are plentiful and dirt cheap.
TB is generally expensive, but how much would a 3x2.5 drive have to cost? It seems like it should be able to be fairly small, shouldn't have very high power requirements, and shouldn't get super hot. Is there really any reason something like that should cost more than say $200? This is definitely one item that would be great for Apple to make, and price it competitively since it would boost sales of these new MP and speed adoption of TB. Heck, at this point they should be selling all their TB cables and adapters at cost just to try and make the port a success.
The people who are really stuck are those who spent a fortune on SSD on a PCI card, but I would guess there probably aren't a ton of mac users with those.
Trust me it's you.
We know that it's a Firepro, nothing more. We don't know if there is a new model out that is Mac only. My point, which you missed is that you ain't comparing Apples with Apples.
Looks like a release button, not a entry for a kensington lock - hard to tell without larger pics from Apple.
That assumes they are only offering these with one (high end) option. Probably not the case, they will likely have a model with cheaper GPUs as well.
And the problem with the cube is that it was no more powerful than their tower boxes that were cheaper and still available. It was a new form factor but the same old chips as the old form factor. This on the other hand will have power options that are way beyond anything else Apple sells.
The AMD FirePro W9000 is AMD's top of the line workstation gpu. It has 6GB of VRAM and costs $3,399.00.
AMD HD 7970 is AMD's consumer equivalent to the FirePro W9000.
W9000 vs HD 7970
"FirePro W9000 is a server GPU based on the 28nm GCN architecture.
It's based on the Tahiti XT Core (same used on 7970) and therefore offers 2048 Shader Processing Units, 128 TMUs and 32 ROPs on a 384-bit interface of fast GDDR5. The central unit is clocked 975MHz while the memory clock operates at 1375MHZ.
Compared to Radeon HD 7970, its central unit is slightly higher clocked but overall its gaming performance is lower than Radeon HD 7970 because Radeon HD 7970 benefits from certified gaming drivers which unlock the GCN's architecture potential while FirePro W9000 is made for professional applications. Therefore, expect its performance to be between 1% and 3% worse than Radeon HD 7970."
Vs GTX 680
"In terms of overall gaming performance, the graphical capabilities of the Nvidia GeForce GTX 680 are significantly better than the AMD FirePro W9000."
Vs GTX 780
"In terms of overall gaming performance, the graphical capabilities of the Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 are massively better than the AMD FirePro W9000."
If there are any video editors here that wonders about the capabilities of this machine, head over to Reduser.net and read Jeff Killgore's posts in the official Mac Pro thread.
He is a very knowledgable guy, using both Macs and PCs. You will be very encouraged, sure I was.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?101257-New-Mac-Pro-Announced-at-WWDC!-It-s-OFFICIAL!
Specially the pages around 45-47
He is a very knowledgable guy, using both Macs and PCs. You will be very encouraged, sure I was.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?101257-New-Mac-Pro-Announced-at-WWDC!-It-s-OFFICIAL!
Specially the pages around 45-47
Ok, you're still missing the point which is, we don't know what's going on. These cards will be non standard, (it might just be their shape and interface but still non standard). If when it's released and you were right all along and it means that much to you look me up and I'll post it in bold that you knew better.
Nah, I don't care for these kind of posts anyway. I don't know why I opened my big mouth to begin with.
Have a good day.
I 100% believe Apple built the right MacPro. As a recording studio owner I'm VERY happy they went the modular and expandable Thunderbolt 2 and PCIe Flash Storage route. SATA is just TOO SLOW for flash drives and RAIDs. I'll happily purchase Thunderbolt 2 SSD enclosures when the time comes and, 1) I know there will be plenty to choose from, and 2) the price will drop. This isn't the Mac Cube Pt2 that some ignorant "industry speculators" are suggesting. This is a "reboot' of the MacPro line, using the best ideas from today's technology. This is a dream machine, IMO. I've been using Macs since the late 1980s and this is the best Pro Mac I've ever seen.
I don't get the nay-sayers. Apple designed the most potent, most futuristic, modular, and pro level computer possible, and people bitch.
I don't get the nay-sayers. Apple designed the most potent, most futuristic, modular, and pro level computer possible, and people bitch.
Just came back online and my 1st thought :
"Wait it's not April 1st, isn't it ???"
Edit:
2nd thought:
"Suddenly the Amiga Walker proto by ESCOM doesn't look so bad afterall"
And it's very hard to make a decent Apple gaming machine with some longevity. If the iMac's logic and screen assemblies were separate, it'd be worth thinking about one of them, but iMacs use mobile graphics chips, which carves out most of their potential headroom - current games are okay, but next year, not so much. I watched a friend of mine play World of Warcraft on an iMac for six months - its frame rate went from playable to slideshow over the course of one patch.
I'd even be doing my gaming on a Mac if I had a workaround for this. A Mac Mini logic board with four RAM slots (turn them 90° so they're perpendicular to the motherboard - that'll free up some space for the extra two) and one X16 PCIe would be pretty perfect for me - Intel graphics are just inadequate for me.
Why?
Why do you need INTERNAL expandability? What the hell is wrong with EXTERNAL expandability?
The old Mac Pro was limiting. I had to pay extra for those drive bays and the extra cooling required and everything else in that enormous casing (which also came with a footprint cost), but 4x3.5" SATA is just not the right combination for me. And I never use the optical drive so why do i have to pay for that?
This machine is being touted as the most expandable Mac ever, and that's exactly what it is. With Thunderbolt 2 you can connect ANYTHING to it, without having to take up unused space (ie. with the previous Mac Pro's footprint) on your floor or desk, and without having to pay for configurations you don't need. This is perfect for me.
I'll concede that including two really expensive GPUs that are not changeable might be a problem, if that is in fact the case, but we don't even know that yet.
You're all complaining about how this machine won't be upgradeable in 5 years or even 2 years, but your'e missing one really important point. Macs are the most upgradeable machines ever, because they HOLD their VALUE. Sell this one in 2 years for $1000 less than you paid for it and buy a new one. This is almost the ultimate in modularity.
This Mac Pro is the way of the future, just like the original iMac was when it introduced USB and removed floppy drives and all the legacy connectors (ADP etc). Just like all the new laptops that are removing optical drives and the other old legacy connectors (FW, etc).
If you don't want to have to upgrade all your old legacy hardware then DON'T UPGRADE YOUR MAC PRO. Keep using your old legacy Mac and your old legacy hardware for as long as it keeps running for you.
I for one see a very comfortable future with this new design into the next 5 to 10 years. External expansion is perfect, because, sure, I have to upgrade everything to TB now, but once I've done that, I'm set for another 5-10 years. (I'm basing that on how long FW lasted) I can replace my Mac Pro in a couple of years without having to replace all my external storage and other options, because I just swap out the core machine (the Mac Pro), and plug everything in (via thunderbolt) to the new Mac Pro I get at the time. Then repeat 2-3 years later, or whatever.
This is the way of the future. If you don't like the future then keep your old Mac Pro or iMac or Hackintosh and stop complaining.
This is the ultimate solution. What the hell is wrong with you people?
Why do you need INTERNAL expandability? What the hell is wrong with EXTERNAL expandability?
The old Mac Pro was limiting. I had to pay extra for those drive bays and the extra cooling required and everything else in that enormous casing (which also came with a footprint cost), but 4x3.5" SATA is just not the right combination for me. And I never use the optical drive so why do i have to pay for that?
This machine is being touted as the most expandable Mac ever, and that's exactly what it is. With Thunderbolt 2 you can connect ANYTHING to it, without having to take up unused space (ie. with the previous Mac Pro's footprint) on your floor or desk, and without having to pay for configurations you don't need. This is perfect for me.
I'll concede that including two really expensive GPUs that are not changeable might be a problem, if that is in fact the case, but we don't even know that yet.
You're all complaining about how this machine won't be upgradeable in 5 years or even 2 years, but your'e missing one really important point. Macs are the most upgradeable machines ever, because they HOLD their VALUE. Sell this one in 2 years for $1000 less than you paid for it and buy a new one. This is almost the ultimate in modularity.
This Mac Pro is the way of the future, just like the original iMac was when it introduced USB and removed floppy drives and all the legacy connectors (ADP etc). Just like all the new laptops that are removing optical drives and the other old legacy connectors (FW, etc).
If you don't want to have to upgrade all your old legacy hardware then DON'T UPGRADE YOUR MAC PRO. Keep using your old legacy Mac and your old legacy hardware for as long as it keeps running for you.
I for one see a very comfortable future with this new design into the next 5 to 10 years. External expansion is perfect, because, sure, I have to upgrade everything to TB now, but once I've done that, I'm set for another 5-10 years. (I'm basing that on how long FW lasted) I can replace my Mac Pro in a couple of years without having to replace all my external storage and other options, because I just swap out the core machine (the Mac Pro), and plug everything in (via thunderbolt) to the new Mac Pro I get at the time. Then repeat 2-3 years later, or whatever.
This is the way of the future. If you don't like the future then keep your old Mac Pro or iMac or Hackintosh and stop complaining.
This is the ultimate solution. What the hell is wrong with you people?