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Apple Office?
- Thread starter arn
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I've only used the demo of Office v.X for OS 10.1...
And it stinks!!!
I still use 2001 in classic, it's the only usable version, even though it still inherits some counter-intuitive features for Windows.
If Apple brought out an enhanced version of Appleworks, that was optimised for use on the Mac (i.e. doesn't have to refresh the text for 12 seconds
) everytime you save) then I think noone would want M$ Office.
The problem with this of course is that everyone who was Mac Savvy would no longer buy Office from Microsoft... so they would pull the plug... remember the M$ guy said that they would continue to build their products as long as they were profitable even though the agreements had expired...
And although *we* know that Apple's software offerings are better than M$, the rest of the world has adopted and relies on them - so we might not get any new users. What we need to do is increase the installed base by riding the back of M$, then bring out some Killer App...)
And it stinks!!!
I still use 2001 in classic, it's the only usable version, even though it still inherits some counter-intuitive features for Windows.
If Apple brought out an enhanced version of Appleworks, that was optimised for use on the Mac (i.e. doesn't have to refresh the text for 12 seconds
) everytime you save) then I think noone would want M$ Office.The problem with this of course is that everyone who was Mac Savvy would no longer buy Office from Microsoft... so they would pull the plug... remember the M$ guy said that they would continue to build their products as long as they were profitable even though the agreements had expired...
And although *we* know that Apple's software offerings are better than M$, the rest of the world has adopted and relies on them - so we might not get any new users. What we need to do is increase the installed base by riding the back of M$, then bring out some Killer App...
)Why can't apple play nice with others?
Don't make me seperate you two. Why does apple seem to have Great Relationships and Hate Relationships only.. always to one extreme or another.
I like Office and IE.. they are good products... so why boot microsoft of the island.. and it is such a small island. Besides, Microsoft fixed a ton of OS X bugs for apple and then turned around and put out and excellent Office Product. I don't see any other 3rd party Mac developers come close to that effort.
Apple better watch out or the only companies writting applications for OS X will be Apple.
OS X is sweet,
Bill
Don't make me seperate you two. Why does apple seem to have Great Relationships and Hate Relationships only.. always to one extreme or another.
I like Office and IE.. they are good products... so why boot microsoft of the island.. and it is such a small island. Besides, Microsoft fixed a ton of OS X bugs for apple and then turned around and put out and excellent Office Product. I don't see any other 3rd party Mac developers come close to that effort.
Apple better watch out or the only companies writting applications for OS X will be Apple.
OS X is sweet,
Bill
Um.. I love AppleWorks.. but I still have to keep VPC running 10 hours a day because I have to use Access. I cannot believe there is not more demand for Access (or a compatible) for the Mac. It does not matter one whit that FileMaker is TONS better, or that it's cross-platform... we, like many others, use Access because that is what Word From On High says we will use. Give me a way to interact with an Access database on the Mac, and I will be down to firing up one old DOS program (our point of sale system) once or twice a week, and I will be the happiest rodent around.
way too risky
To be honest, I really don't believe apple will directly compete with Office just yet. All signs are indicating that Apple is starting to get more aggressive in gaining market share and an increased user base. The economy is down, fewer people are buying computers. Apple has been heading more in the software direction over the past year with many of the acquisitions they have made. Today's release of Shake for OS X is just one example of that.
Despite all these signs of Apple openly competing for marketshare by using software, Office is sort of the last frontier for Apple. I'm with those that have said that openly competing with office would seriously wound or kill Apple. I would say it would almost be an arrogant and prideful decision by apple, and as the saying goes, "pride goes before the fall."
Apple wouldn't do that right now, Steve Jobs is a smarter businessman than that. At least I hope he is.
To be honest, I really don't believe apple will directly compete with Office just yet. All signs are indicating that Apple is starting to get more aggressive in gaining market share and an increased user base. The economy is down, fewer people are buying computers. Apple has been heading more in the software direction over the past year with many of the acquisitions they have made. Today's release of Shake for OS X is just one example of that.
Despite all these signs of Apple openly competing for marketshare by using software, Office is sort of the last frontier for Apple. I'm with those that have said that openly competing with office would seriously wound or kill Apple. I would say it would almost be an arrogant and prideful decision by apple, and as the saying goes, "pride goes before the fall."
Apple wouldn't do that right now, Steve Jobs is a smarter businessman than that. At least I hope he is.
AppleWorks potential
When I got my first iBook, a 300 MHz blueberry model, it came with AppleWorks 5. I couldn't wait to get a version of Office 98 on it. Shortly thereafter, AppleWorks 6 was released, but it had no translators.
Now, AW 6.2.5 for OS X has very good translators for Word and Excel (several versions of each) and is a much more powerful program than before. With some appropriate improvements, it could get me away from my much more frequent use of Office X.
Unlike basic versions of Office, AW has a database module included, but it needs to be made compatible with either Access or FileMaker.
The word processor module needs additional features, such as grammar checking and the ability to spell check while typing. It's main advantage now is that it doesn't try to tell you how to format, which Word tends to do even with auto-format selections turned off. It also allows very easy table creation and creation of text boxes and spreadsheet boxes right in the document. This came done with Office, but with more steps and more dialog boxes to go through.
The AW presentation module works, but needs a major upgrade to be competitive.
The spreadsheet module is fine for ninety percent of users, but could use a boost in charting features and formulas. It would be nice if it also has a List Wizard like Excel when a full database program isn't needed.
I also use Silk to make AW document fonts look really nice and I'd use AW a lot more if Apple were to really get serious and try to make it a solid competitor to Office.
When I got my first iBook, a 300 MHz blueberry model, it came with AppleWorks 5. I couldn't wait to get a version of Office 98 on it. Shortly thereafter, AppleWorks 6 was released, but it had no translators.
Now, AW 6.2.5 for OS X has very good translators for Word and Excel (several versions of each) and is a much more powerful program than before. With some appropriate improvements, it could get me away from my much more frequent use of Office X.
Unlike basic versions of Office, AW has a database module included, but it needs to be made compatible with either Access or FileMaker.
The word processor module needs additional features, such as grammar checking and the ability to spell check while typing. It's main advantage now is that it doesn't try to tell you how to format, which Word tends to do even with auto-format selections turned off. It also allows very easy table creation and creation of text boxes and spreadsheet boxes right in the document. This came done with Office, but with more steps and more dialog boxes to go through.
The AW presentation module works, but needs a major upgrade to be competitive.
The spreadsheet module is fine for ninety percent of users, but could use a boost in charting features and formulas. It would be nice if it also has a List Wizard like Excel when a full database program isn't needed.
I also use Silk to make AW document fonts look really nice and I'd use AW a lot more if Apple were to really get serious and try to make it a solid competitor to Office.
Losing Office would the the WORST thing for Apple!!!!!!!!
I can't believe how blinded you dorks are to the significance of this. For MS to drop Office would be yet ONE MORE REASON not to switch to a Mac!!!!!!!! You guys think you could seriously look a prospective "switch" buyer, or worse yet, a client in the face and say "Yeah, MS Office was okay - too bad its gone, but we've got Appleworks! It might open most of those files without too many errors!"
Let me clue you guys in: About 95% of the world's computers (for better or worse - mostly worse) use Windows. And of those, I would guess that about 80% of the use of these machines involves Word, Excel and Powerpoint. If you want to even be in the ballgame of a compelling platform, you need to be completely seamless and conversant with this format. [You think Appleworks is compatible? Ha! It will certainly open the file in a readable form, but most of the formating, not to mention imbedded images and lines are "dropped" in the transition.]
We have an all-Mac platform at our architectural firm. My client's FULLY EXPECT for us to be compliant with file transfers and communication. It HAS to be completely seamless. Office X is an exemplary program that is entirely seamless with the "rest of the computing" world. If this conduit were not available, we would seriously consider switching platforms, AND SO WOULD MANY OTHERS!!!
Again, THERE IS NOTHING TO GAIN by losing this software. You guys know that the viability of the Mac platform has been tenuous for a long time. This would do nothing but deep six the legitimacy of the platform. It would be a disaster.
Note: There's nothing inherently wrong with Appleworks. It's a fine program - and it would be better with enhancements. But Apple had better not make the mistake of positioning it against Office and risking a rift with Office development.
I can't believe how blinded you dorks are to the significance of this. For MS to drop Office would be yet ONE MORE REASON not to switch to a Mac!!!!!!!! You guys think you could seriously look a prospective "switch" buyer, or worse yet, a client in the face and say "Yeah, MS Office was okay - too bad its gone, but we've got Appleworks! It might open most of those files without too many errors!"
Let me clue you guys in: About 95% of the world's computers (for better or worse - mostly worse) use Windows. And of those, I would guess that about 80% of the use of these machines involves Word, Excel and Powerpoint. If you want to even be in the ballgame of a compelling platform, you need to be completely seamless and conversant with this format. [You think Appleworks is compatible? Ha! It will certainly open the file in a readable form, but most of the formating, not to mention imbedded images and lines are "dropped" in the transition.]
We have an all-Mac platform at our architectural firm. My client's FULLY EXPECT for us to be compliant with file transfers and communication. It HAS to be completely seamless. Office X is an exemplary program that is entirely seamless with the "rest of the computing" world. If this conduit were not available, we would seriously consider switching platforms, AND SO WOULD MANY OTHERS!!!
Again, THERE IS NOTHING TO GAIN by losing this software. You guys know that the viability of the Mac platform has been tenuous for a long time. This would do nothing but deep six the legitimacy of the platform. It would be a disaster.
Note: There's nothing inherently wrong with Appleworks. It's a fine program - and it would be better with enhancements. But Apple had better not make the mistake of positioning it against Office and risking a rift with Office development.
IMO, Apple should develop an Office Suite, but wait for M$ to jump off the island before they boot em off... At the moment, MS could pull office tomorrow and that would stop the switcher campaign dead in its tracks. MS have far too much power over mac platform at the moment and this is something which I think apple should be and is addressing.
I can see how that would make you wanna use Office instead of AppleWorks
BUT the text render issue you talk about has to be a minor problem.....
Rendering text on a mac is not an issue with any application ive used
on the mac so that tells us it is very possible to creative beautiful crisp
text on the mac..............my point being that the issue will definetly be
resolved if it isnt already.......thats a bet that I'll lay my life on
if I may be so dramatic.
Re: Losing Office would the the WORST thing for Apple!!!!!!!!
Hehehe.......this guy cracks me up.....LOL.
do you really think that I, or apple will ever worry about your windows
world as much as you think we should be....?
we are superior. we dont need your attempt at
enlightenment, with your pearls of wisdom from
your failing world ...hehehe yes I amuse my self.
Oh my god I just read the quoted post again and
it's even funnier the second time you read it....LOL
Jeeze why would a company like apple say duh...ok
go ahead and have the only real option to a line
of integrated office apps and we'll just wait around
until you (windowz) decide to pull the plug on the
mac version and cripple our prosperity.....hehehe
its just so funny....
really though, all kidding aside......apple will take all the steps
they need to in order to be compatible with windows office
and they'll kick some ass instead of having their nads in a vice
Hehehe.......this guy cracks me up.....LOL.
do you really think that I, or apple will ever worry about your windows
world as much as you think we should be....?
we are superior. we dont need your attempt at
enlightenment, with your pearls of wisdom from
your failing world ...hehehe yes I amuse my self.
Oh my god I just read the quoted post again and
it's even funnier the second time you read it....LOL
Jeeze why would a company like apple say duh...ok
go ahead and have the only real option to a line
of integrated office apps and we'll just wait around
until you (windowz) decide to pull the plug on the
mac version and cripple our prosperity.....hehehe
its just so funny....
really though, all kidding aside......apple will take all the steps
they need to in order to be compatible with windows office
and they'll kick some ass instead of having their nads in a vice
Call it "iOffice for Mac"TM
Comes with "iWord for mac" etc... Most of those dumb ass switchers and other PC users would not know, and would just think "yep, I get Office with a Mac" Make it for windows as well and hand out FREE copies at the apple store, see how MS likes there market undermined, why buy MS office for PC or mac, when iOffice is free from the apple store.
Comes with "iWord for mac" etc... Most of those dumb ass switchers and other PC users would not know, and would just think "yep, I get Office with a Mac" Make it for windows as well and hand out FREE copies at the apple store, see how MS likes there market undermined, why buy MS office for PC or mac, when iOffice is free from the apple store.
Re: Re: Losing Office would the the WORST thing for Apple!!!!!!!!
Hate to tell you, but there is such a thing as Windows. And Microsoft. And guess what, they're the competition!
Apple can't continue to survive on the Mac faithful alone, especially in this economy. And especially with them p*ssing off as many of us as they have been lately (look around, former zealots are now p*ssed at what's going on. Myself included, and rightly so IMO).
Apple better start worrying about the Dark-Side.
I HOPE you were kidding. But even if you were, others are saying this and meaning it. Just keep sticking yer heads in the sand, maybe M$ will just go away. And maybe someday we'll all be complaining about Apple, the new Evil Empire.
Or saying "Apple who? All hail the Despot, Lord Gates".
Ugh, I suddenly got a chill.
Hate to tell you, but there is such a thing as Windows. And Microsoft. And guess what, they're the competition!
Apple can't continue to survive on the Mac faithful alone, especially in this economy. And especially with them p*ssing off as many of us as they have been lately (look around, former zealots are now p*ssed at what's going on. Myself included, and rightly so IMO).
Apple better start worrying about the Dark-Side.
I HOPE you were kidding. But even if you were, others are saying this and meaning it. Just keep sticking yer heads in the sand, maybe M$ will just go away. And maybe someday we'll all be complaining about Apple, the new Evil Empire.
Or saying "Apple who? All hail the Despot, Lord Gates".
Ugh, I suddenly got a chill.
Re: Re: One more thing...
(Okay - so I got Chess with OS X - whoopie! )
While they now include a bunch of shareware like Graphic Converter (anyone know if it registered?), they still don't throw in the commercial package that iMac users get.
They also list "Appleworks 6" under the "Built in Apps" section
(Okay - so I got Chess with OS X - whoopie!
)
does anyone know how viable the "BigShow" format is as a presentation module? i've checked it out and with a little work, some extra features, and a graphical editor, it could be a sweet little presentation package (and in cocoa too!). i'm just begining to learn programming and am not sure how easy it would be to expand the format into a full fledged presentation app, but it looks promising. its not compatable with powerpoint, but in my opinion, thats a good thing. <http://www.bignerdranch.com/Resources/>
anyway...
as many others have said, the only way apple can expect to survive without ms office is to offer a product with full compatability (i dont use office, but it seems like every buisness on earth does). i've heard that some of the unix office packages offer pretty good support for office, mabye apple should look into basing a product off of openoffice or koffice (similar to chimera's cocoa interface over a unix back end).
anyway...
as many others have said, the only way apple can expect to survive without ms office is to offer a product with full compatability (i dont use office, but it seems like every buisness on earth does). i've heard that some of the unix office packages offer pretty good support for office, mabye apple should look into basing a product off of openoffice or koffice (similar to chimera's cocoa interface over a unix back end).
Office is a big deal. M$ office is a key app in the business world and to have it for apple is a big deal. Not having m$ office for the mac would be a serious blow to the macintosh community. Sure apple could write a pretty good office suite, but why?
m$ office, unlike its os, is pretty good. and gives people the option who are used to the pc world to move to the mac world with less worries.
Not having M$ office would be a bad thing.
m$ office, unlike its os, is pretty good. and gives people the option who are used to the pc world to move to the mac world with less worries.
Not having M$ office would be a bad thing.
Original MacOffice?
I was too young to really have paid attention to this at the time, but does anyone remember the "Lemmings" add which advertised MacOffice (I think that was what it advertised, at least). In a book I read, MacOffice became a doomed product, and I'm not even really sure if it ever was released or not. Anyone have any other details about that?
As for my own experiences with AW. Yes, AW can open and save in Word and Excel formats...however, it is not perfect. From my experience, it can open up simple, text-only versions of Word documents fine, but if there are any graphics, they get thrown out and don't import. The one AW spreadsheet I've saved as an Excel file opened up with no problems.
And let's say that Apple pisses MS off, and MS pulls the plug on MS Office. Well, Apple wouldn't be dead, but as others have mentioned, it might put a crimp in some people's shorts when they see that Office isn't available for the Mac, even though there are programs out there which can either do similar things, or even translate some programs (with varying degrees of accuracy, which we can only hope will continually get better). As for myself, this wouldn't directly affect me, since I do nearly all of my word processing in AppleWorks. Now, from my experience with PC versions of Office, it is a decent enough program, but the price isn't justified, in my opinion. If Word was sold as a stand alone product for the Mac for $50, then I might consider buying it, at least for work so when I get .doc attachments, I can open them up with absolutely no problems (MacLink does a pretty decent job for the most part, though). Also consider that the physical material costs of software is pretty cheap. A box, perhaps some documentation (which tends to get more sparse all the time, replaced with on-line documentation), and a CD or few. Heck, there is quite a lot of software which has no real physical attributes and just can be downloaded! This can also lead off into another string about software, pricing, and whether or not it should even be priced. I was reading some arguments about software vs. hardware, and the idea how software (since it is pretty much nothing more than information stored as giant strings of 0's and 1's) should be free.
I was too young to really have paid attention to this at the time, but does anyone remember the "Lemmings" add which advertised MacOffice (I think that was what it advertised, at least). In a book I read, MacOffice became a doomed product, and I'm not even really sure if it ever was released or not. Anyone have any other details about that?
As for my own experiences with AW. Yes, AW can open and save in Word and Excel formats...however, it is not perfect. From my experience, it can open up simple, text-only versions of Word documents fine, but if there are any graphics, they get thrown out and don't import. The one AW spreadsheet I've saved as an Excel file opened up with no problems.
And let's say that Apple pisses MS off, and MS pulls the plug on MS Office. Well, Apple wouldn't be dead, but as others have mentioned, it might put a crimp in some people's shorts when they see that Office isn't available for the Mac, even though there are programs out there which can either do similar things, or even translate some programs (with varying degrees of accuracy, which we can only hope will continually get better). As for myself, this wouldn't directly affect me, since I do nearly all of my word processing in AppleWorks. Now, from my experience with PC versions of Office, it is a decent enough program, but the price isn't justified, in my opinion. If Word was sold as a stand alone product for the Mac for $50, then I might consider buying it, at least for work so when I get .doc attachments, I can open them up with absolutely no problems (MacLink does a pretty decent job for the most part, though). Also consider that the physical material costs of software is pretty cheap. A box, perhaps some documentation (which tends to get more sparse all the time, replaced with on-line documentation), and a CD or few. Heck, there is quite a lot of software which has no real physical attributes and just can be downloaded! This can also lead off into another string about software, pricing, and whether or not it should even be priced. I was reading some arguments about software vs. hardware, and the idea how software (since it is pretty much nothing more than information stored as giant strings of 0's and 1's) should be free.
Lets have some perspective
Ok people, after reading through many of these posts I think some things need to get put in persective:
1. The contract with MS is up. When Office stops making them money it they may pull OS X support. This said, it would be completely ignorant of Apple not be be developing a plan if this happens. If you think your boat may spring a leak, you make sure you have a lifejacket and a liferaft on board. That is what Apple appears to be doing.
2. MS owns many shares of Apple stock. I was perplexed that nobody mentioned this fact. If Apple disappeared completely Gates would lose a rather large chunk of change. MS support or no MS support, Gates would still have a large influence in operations because he owns a whole lot of shares of the stock! The only way to get away from the Dark Side would be to not only break ties with Microsoft, but also BUY BACK all of Bill Gates shares. Not an inexpensive proposition by any means. But the main point here is that MS has a vested interest in the success of Apple, until they are no longer shareholders.
3. Like many mentioned, StarOffice has been around for a while now, and as I understand it is compatible with MS Office. Making a product that is completely compatible with MS Office is hardly a pipedream. There is an OS X version for Star Office coming soon, and since it is open source who is to say Apple didn't just use most of that code and just "Apple-ize" it? That would certainly cut down on development time.
4. Many people seem to be basing their Appleworks comments on the current version of Appleworks. An iOffice version would be far superior, hands down. If it wasn't Jobs would get reamed up and down by all the Mac faithful for putting out an inferior product.
5. Apple really turned things around after MS jumped on board. MS saved the sinking ship in the mid-90s and very well may have saved OS X from floundering badly. It was not until Office was released that most other 3rd party companies jumped on board and made committments.
In summary, if the past is any indication Apple becoming isolated from MS may not be a smart business move. But any real Mac fan would LOVE to see it happen.
Ok people, after reading through many of these posts I think some things need to get put in persective:
1. The contract with MS is up. When Office stops making them money it they may pull OS X support. This said, it would be completely ignorant of Apple not be be developing a plan if this happens. If you think your boat may spring a leak, you make sure you have a lifejacket and a liferaft on board. That is what Apple appears to be doing.
2. MS owns many shares of Apple stock. I was perplexed that nobody mentioned this fact. If Apple disappeared completely Gates would lose a rather large chunk of change. MS support or no MS support, Gates would still have a large influence in operations because he owns a whole lot of shares of the stock! The only way to get away from the Dark Side would be to not only break ties with Microsoft, but also BUY BACK all of Bill Gates shares. Not an inexpensive proposition by any means. But the main point here is that MS has a vested interest in the success of Apple, until they are no longer shareholders.
3. Like many mentioned, StarOffice has been around for a while now, and as I understand it is compatible with MS Office. Making a product that is completely compatible with MS Office is hardly a pipedream. There is an OS X version for Star Office coming soon, and since it is open source who is to say Apple didn't just use most of that code and just "Apple-ize" it? That would certainly cut down on development time.
4. Many people seem to be basing their Appleworks comments on the current version of Appleworks. An iOffice version would be far superior, hands down. If it wasn't Jobs would get reamed up and down by all the Mac faithful for putting out an inferior product.
5. Apple really turned things around after MS jumped on board. MS saved the sinking ship in the mid-90s and very well may have saved OS X from floundering badly. It was not until Office was released that most other 3rd party companies jumped on board and made committments.
In summary, if the past is any indication Apple becoming isolated from MS may not be a smart business move. But any real Mac fan would LOVE to see it happen.
the primary school campuses of my school use appleworks on their PC's rather than Office...although it looks a bit bland on that OS...anyway, many Apple users aren't MacAddicts and therefore may not pay any attention if an "iOffice" was released...howvever, it might save a few dollars from entering Microsofts pockets..
used a demo copy of claris works once..didnt really mind it :S lol
the computer store my uncles an accountant for still has a copy of appleworks 5.0 that has been sitting there since '98 (probably) and its still priced as $130 CDN..geesh, if they want to actually sell stuff..then lower prices on 5 year old software
loln i remember seeing frontpage '97 (and frontpage xp came out half a year later) there for $200 cdn or whatever it was originally priced for, and i was like "wtf" cuz they couldve atleast taken $10 off of it since its that old lol
good ol pc stores....
MS has no stock in Apple!
>>2. MS owns many shares of Apple stock. I was perplexed that nobody mentioned this fact. If Apple disappeared completely Gates would lose a rather large chunk of change. MS support or no MS support, Gates would still have a large influence in operations because he owns a whole lot of shares of the stock!<<
Get your facts straight... Microsoft no longer owns any stock in Apple, and when they did, it was non-voting stock which meant they had no say in Apple's strategy and how they ran the show! Furthermore when Microsoft owned stock in Apple, it was less than 5% of Apple's net worth, so they didn't even own enough stock to be influentual on what Apple was doing!
>>2. MS owns many shares of Apple stock. I was perplexed that nobody mentioned this fact. If Apple disappeared completely Gates would lose a rather large chunk of change. MS support or no MS support, Gates would still have a large influence in operations because he owns a whole lot of shares of the stock!<<
Get your facts straight... Microsoft no longer owns any stock in Apple, and when they did, it was non-voting stock which meant they had no say in Apple's strategy and how they ran the show! Furthermore when Microsoft owned stock in Apple, it was less than 5% of Apple's net worth, so they didn't even own enough stock to be influentual on what Apple was doing!