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Apple Officially Addresses Location Data Controversy

Full of Win said:
This is a lie

Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. :mad:
Click to expand...

No it isn't. They say they are not logging your location. This is correct. If it were incorrect, they would be keeping a database of your phone's exact GPS location. Instead, as they state, they are keeping a cache of the cell towers and wifi hotspots in order to aid the A-GPS system. So, no, they are not logging your (and by your, I mean an identifiable log) exact locations and beaming it home to watch you like big brother.

As has been stated a million times, there is a likely bug that wasn't culling the cache. It was also a dumb oversight to backup the file and to do so unencrypted.

The overlord hyperbole is really silly.
 
Oh my god I knew it! Apple collects the data and does evil things with it! I can't imagine what kind of evil things they are going to do with it!

No, seriously, I really don't. Printing out huge posters with a map of your latest locations saying "LOOK AT WHERE THIS GUY WAS. HE WAS AT THE SUPERMARKET LATELY. HE SURELY BOUGHT SOME THINGS THERE, LIKE TOMATOES. YEAH THIS KIND OF THINGS." maybe.
Strange people.
 
smaffei said:
A lot of people are upset over this. But, no one seems to care that the US Government can snoop on any electronic communication it wants for well over 10 years now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)

Data transmissions, cell phone calls, you name it. I think we're trying to cook the wrong goose if you ask me.
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I think ALL the gooses should be cooked. No one should get the free pass.. so I don't think it's wrong to call Apple out on this.

eawmp1 said:
I thought looking at my location histories was interesting. I, too, have no delusions that I cannot be tracked (cell phone, credit card purchases, etc.) I wonder if all the paranoids realize that any GPS camera encodes that information in the image. Share that photo online and anyone can get the metadata with location of photograph.

You wanna be connected, you can't be truly anonymous.
You wanna be anonymous, sell you computer, smart phone, cut up credit cards, and move to an undocumented shack in the middle of nowhere with no utilities.
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Sharing a photo is actively giving out a location. Just like foursquare, tweeting and updating facebook. This issue is about giving out data which is involuntary, non encrypted and not being able to turn it off.

And as for the latter half of your statement - it's a dangerous/slippery slope to start being apathetic about your right to privacy. Once it's all out there - it's that much harder to get it back.

And again - there's a difference between voluntarily and involuntarily releasing of private information.
 
So if I lose my iPhone and log into to my Mobile.me account I can see the iphones location and if it is moving. This is a nice feature to find your missing phone and track it - like leaving it in someones car, taxi or train. So I always knew this feature existed and considered it a feature.

Anyway, remember the gov't is looking for any hook to real in in Apple. They are a shining example of how a company should work - design products that people didn't even know they needed and sell them to a demanding public for nice profit without unions and turn a nice profit. Don't kid yourself on this.
 
Wow. That's surprising. This whole time people downplayed it because there was no evidence that apple was actually transmitting this data. It wasn't a big deal because the db file was local only. Now when Apple addresses it they had to not only admit that the file exists but that they actually were transmitting data.

Ah well, still not a big deal. :p
 
Apple is planning on releasing a free iOS update in the next few weeks that performs the following:

- reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone,
- ceases backing up this cache, and
- deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.
Click to expand...

and the very next day apple will be swamped with support calls asking why it's taking so long to get one's location
 
DavidLeblond said:
I actually thought looking at a history of where my phone has been on a map was kinda cool. Bummer.
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Yes - I was hoping when they 'fix' this that they will leave an option in the settings to keep that data - I absolutely enjoyed browsing through the data and revisit my trips that way (and sometimes wondering 'what the hack did I do in that location?)
 
So...

for all the tin foil hatters out there, what will happen to the phone performance when the location services are turned off?
 
Do you want to track your data?

This is slightly off topic, but I saw a couple of posts of people who want to track their location data and see it or access it programmatically. I've been using Google's Latitude App (iPhone and Web-client) to track my location. They have an ability to get this data via a well documented API as well.

I don't think it hurts battery life too much, and it is interesting to be able to see where you've been the last week/month/year.

If you are interested check out https://www.google.com/latitude/ and their iPhone App
 
macse30 said:
I wish they would leave it on and let me use it. I consider it a feature. It would help me track hours at job sites automatically for billing. I thought of writing an app just for that.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting idea.

I actually like Apple's response. I do think that being able to turn OFF the feature was an oversight on their part but I do wish there was a way to leave it on. I'd actually welcome a way to import that database into Aperture and use it geotag my photos. Yes, there are apps to do that but I have an iPhone 3G and so backgrounding those apps isn't really possible.
 
Full of Win said:
This is a lie



Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. :mad: Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?

At least our overlord will now, I hope, stop collecting location data when location services are turned off. It's a disgrace that it took a media storm to shame them into action.
Click to expand...

this is how skyhook wireless worked. apple just does it themselves now
 
So track me... I'm not ashamed of where I go...

We are giving up our rights just by typing in this forum on the "World Wide Web" because it is World Wide...

This was all started by 2 paranoid people that need to throw away their technology and crawl into a cave with that guy with the long grey beard that is hiding from the world (until he gets caught)...
 
mrblack927 said:
Wow. That's surprising. This whole time people downplayed it because there was no evidence that apple was actually transmitting this data. It wasn't a big deal because the db file was local only. Now when Apple addresses it they had to not only admit that the file exists but that they actually were transmitting data.

Ah well, still not a big deal. :p
Click to expand...

It was never a big deal. Either you are holding it wrong or there is a misunderstanding. Apple never makes mistakes, didn't you get the memo? ;)
 
MacRumors said:
Apple is planning on releasing a free iOS update in the next few weeks that performs the following:

- reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone,
- ceases backing up this cache, and
- deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.


Article Link: Apple Officially Addresses Location Data Controversy
Click to expand...

Wow, Apple is planning putting in all points I had asked for in a post ? :eek: Good Job Cupertino, well played. :D
 
mrblack927 said:
Wow. That's surprising. This whole time people downplayed it because there was no evidence that apple was actually transmitting this data. It wasn't a big deal because the db file was local only. Now when Apple addresses it they had to not only admit that the file exists but that they actually were transmitting data.

Ah well, still not a big deal. :p
Click to expand...

It is not surprising (pdf).
 
Last edited:
completely blown out of proportion!

The data is sent anonymously and doesn’t give you an accurate pinpoint of where you are if any indication of where you are. It’s not exactly used to come and get you if you have been somewhere you shouldn’t have been :rolleyes: so kick back and relax.

Way too much fuss about nothing personally! :p
 
Ok, somebody go slap the lawyers that are initiating the lawsuit!

Apple tracking everyone, ya right, like they have to?!
 
Full of Win said:
This is a lie



Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. :mad: Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?

At least our overlord will now, I hope, stop collecting location data when location services are turned off. It's a disgrace that it took a media storm to shame them into action.
Click to expand...

But it's not "logging your location". If you look at the data that is being stored, there is one entry per location. If Apple was keeping a log of your movements over time, you'd expect there to be many entries for places you go to frequently, but there are not. consolidated.db is simply a cache used by the Core Location framework, nothing more.

This is not to say that Apple should have let the cache grow indefinitely - this is definitely bad. But they're going to fix it, and it'll be easy for us to verify, as we know how to check for the file now.
 
Rafterman said:
Its not about being a criminal or paranoid. This data is for the sole purpose of marketers to sell us crap.

Well, I'm tired of seeing ads everywhere I turn. You can't go to the bathroom now without seeing a ad shoved in your face and its becoming tiresome.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we can interest you in a *free mobile OS? Android. By Google.

*funded by advertising
 
Full of Win said:
Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location.
Click to expand...
Yes, but
a) there is a difference between logging where you have been and storing the timestamp of when you have been there, I don't think Apple needs to or should have stored the timestamp
b) restricting the database to all locations you been to in the last seven days greatly diminishes the harm potential

Apple admitted (b), and said they would fix it. They might also fix (a).

Anybody who connects to a WiFi network automatically stores its SSID (unless you tell your iOS device to forget the network every time after your done). This alone is a record of your location (though again, the list of WiFi networks could be stripped of its access date, ie, issue (a)).
 
gibbz said:
No it isn't. They say they are not logging your location. This is correct. If it were incorrect, they would be keeping a database of your phone's exact GPS location. Instead, as they state, they are keeping a cache of the cell towers and wifi hotspots in order to aid the A-GPS system. So, no, they are not logging your (and by your, I mean an identifiable log) exact locations and beaming it home to watch you like big brother.

As has been stated a million times, there is a likely bug that wasn't culling the cache. It was also a dumb oversight to backup the file and to do so unencrypted.

The overlord hyperbole is really silly.
Click to expand...

Keeping a log of nearby locations I've been around, is by proxy, logging my location. If they keep a record of the towers my phone and iPad have linked to, and the locations of these towers are fixed and known, then Apple is in effect tracking my location in this linking.

I think it was not a bug, nut data waiting to be sent to Apple for profit generating purposes.
 
I think the patch to iOS is a good response.

Making it clear the log file especially when you switch off location services is a good response, and that it will shorten the overall storage of it.

I hope it still does fast triangulation as necessary - there is a benefit to that - but just that the record keeping part basically is a non issue any more, because the cache is regularly flushed.
 
5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data.
Click to expand...

And here I thought that data wasn't sent to Apple? At least they encrypted it so that you can't tell what actually is sent.

Edit:

But really, they are doing the right thing by truncating the size, removing it from files being backuped, and encrypting the file.
 
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