Apple Officially Addresses Location Data Controversy

[2499723]

if any of you are concerned about being tracked - why on earth would you buy any product that has a GPS in it (all computers cash info) and why on earth would you buy a cell phone - the towers know almost exactly when (which apple doesn't know) and where you are? The reaction to this news is stupid.

I pretty much agree with you, but I can see where others are coming from on this one. Mobile phones and computers are, in this age, a necessity. There's very little point in denying that. Still, people want to maintain their privacy. I think some people thought it was possible to maintain privacy while owning necessary items. You can't expect someone not to buy a computer or phone. That's not a solution. I respect the idea that people enjoy anonymity and I do too. It's nearly impossible in this world, but what little can be done is worth pursuing in my opinion, so people's expectations, while perhaps a bit naive are not absurd.

 

[revelated]

And once again people give Apple a pass for something that is clearly an issue.

You mean to tell me that Apple, a company that seems to release fairly solid software, "neglected" to test that when disabling an option called LOCATION SERVICES, that it actually disabled location checking properly? Are some of you really so Jobsian?

Call a spade a spade. There's no possible chance this was a mistake. They got caught. They should not be given a pass over it. If a user opts to disable Location Services, they were working under the false impression that their location was no longer being tracked. Seems mighty shifty to me. Doesn't matter how much data might have been user-identifiable. This sounds like something Google would do, not Apple.

 

[Vegasman]

Apple's solution is fine by me. They wouldn't have done anything if there wasn't so much press about it, but I guess that's a good reason (one of the only ones) for the press to exist.

Interestingly, this behavior of waiting for things to blow up in the press before they are addressed will only lead to MORE things getting blown up in the press. Maybe Apple likes that? I dunno.

 

[mcoyne]

Poo. I'd rather have the option to keep backing up that cache file to iTunes. I like the ability to see a map of where I've been using the iPhoneTracker app.

Agreed! Stupid whiners. I hope they will add an option to let your iphone continue keeping a cache of all your locations.

 

[vivithemage]

They have some good wordsmiths

 

[manu chao]

Funny comment from Engadget:

Q: Why is my iphone tracking me?
A: It's not. It's tracking networks and cell towers near wherever you go.

Q: What is the difference between tracking me, and tracking the towers wherever I happen to go? Isn't that the same thing?
A: No. Because it's crowd-sourced. Total crowd size = 1.

Q: Umm. Ok? Soo. Why have you been keeping logs for the past year?
A: That was a bug.

Q: Then why was it unencrypted?
A: That was a bug.

Q: Right. Then why when I opted out did it ignore my choice?
A: That was a bug.

I think is quite conceivable that keeping those logs forever, not encrypting them, maintaining them despite an opt out, and not removing the timestamps was done in the spirit of: "Let's keep the data, maybe they will be useful at some point, and why bother do encrypt them, that is just some extra lines of code to write."
And it is this spirit which is somehow worrying.

 

[faroZ06]

I think ALL the gooses should be cooked. No one should get the free pass.. so I don't think it's wrong to call Apple out on this.



Sharing a photo is actively giving out a location. Just like foursquare, tweeting and updating facebook. This issue is about giving out data which is involuntary, non encrypted and not being able to turn it off.

And as for the latter half of your statement - it's a dangerous/slippery slope to start being apathetic about your right to privacy. Once it's all out there - it's that much harder to get it back.

And again - there's a difference between voluntarily and involuntarily releasing of private information.

The iPhone is voluntary. You enabled location services.

 

[samcraig]

I looked at the map from a recent road trip. It showed cell towers 50 miles off the route I was on--probably next towers over in case I headed that direction. It's the apple bashing trolls who are blowing this way out of proportion.

No it's not.

And I think MOST people aren't blowing anything out of proportion. Being concerned about tracking information/privacy issues is important. Most people (stop generalizing just because some on this board are) are NOT over-reacting but were calling for deeper investigation into the issue.

 

[Stella]

Why did it take so long for Apple to release a statement?

 

[samcraig]

The iPhone is voluntary. You enabled location services.

Did you read ANY of the news articles.

With location services turned off, this data was still be collected. And Apple says this was a "bug"

So you're wrong.

 

[Al Coholic]

They also note that findings that the database continues to grow despite Location services being off as a bug that will soon be addressed.

???

The MRbot needs some lessons in basic sentence structure.

Apple is planning on releasing a free iOS update in the next few weeks that performs the following:
- ceases backing up this cache, and
- deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.

Oh joy. Now AT&T's lightening-fast EDGE network will seek mindlessly for hours trying to find that lone cell tower as I drive across rural-ass USA. It'll probably take me days to dial out as well.

Thanks Al Franken! Glad you got your useless staff to address this useless matter because there's nothing else you should be doing right now. (Enjoy your short senate term).

 

[thatisme]

No it's not.

And I think MOST people aren't blowing anything out of proportion. Being concerned about tracking information/privacy issues is important. Most people (stop generalizing just because some on this board are) are NOT over-reacting but were calling for deeper investigation into the issue.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Vegasman]

I think is quite conceivable that keeping those logs forever, not encrypting them, maintaining them despite an opt out, and not removing the timestamps was done in the spirit of: "Let's keep the data, maybe they will be useful at some point, and why bother do encrypt them, that is just some extra lines of code to write."
And it is this spirit which is somehow worrying.

This is the most likely explanation for me (too).

 

[faroZ06]

And once again people give Apple a pass for something that is clearly an issue.

You mean to tell me that Apple, a company that seems to release fairly solid software, "neglected" to test that when disabling an option called LOCATION SERVICES, that it actually disabled location checking properly? Are some of you really so Jobsian?

Call a spade a spade. There's no possible chance this was a mistake. They got caught. They should not be given a pass over it. If a user opts to disable Location Services, they were working under the false impression that their location was no longer being tracked. Seems mighty shifty to me. Doesn't matter how much data might have been user-identifiable. This sounds like something Google would do, not Apple.

Not really. Although location services does not delete the log when you turn it off, it does cease to record to it. I don't see what the problem with that is.

 

[jljue]

A lot of people are upset over this. But, no one seems to care that the US Government can snoop on any electronic communication it wants for well over 10 years now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)

Data transmissions, cell phone calls, you name it. I think we're trying to cook the wrong goose if you ask me.

Law makers apparently have forgotten that they enacted a law requiring location ID on cell phones for emergency purposes--another indication that we have too many laws.

 

[Full of Win]

It doesn't keep a log of the "location" but which WiFi spots you have been on. Also, the database is not easily accessible. But really, don't complain if you enabled Location Services...

1. Keeping a logic identifiable towers and hot spots is, by proxy, keeping a log of my whereabouts.

2. This tag and track was done with location services OFF, per the WSJ.

 

[thetexan]

Didn't Google get in trouble for tagging SSIDs of hotspots when running their streetview vans through town? How is this any different, besides the fact you're the van instead of Google?

 

[samcraig]

Pot, meet kettle.

There's a difference in what I wrote and what the OP did. I said I THINK. Big difference between a declaritive statement and offering my opinion.

 

[Vegasman]

Not really. Although location services does not delete the log when you turn it off, it does cease to record to it. I don't see what the problem with that is.

And if you beleive that, you are misinformed.

 

[faroZ06]

Did you read ANY of the news articles.

With location services turned off, this data was still be collected. And Apple says this was a "bug"

So you're wrong.

Ok then show me where it says that turning location services off will not stop the tracking. I've scanned the articles and did not find anything that said that. If it does still track when you turn it off, I'd like to know.

 

[i.mac]

A "bug" right?

Yup.

If you ever pen any program in any device in any os, you would know that bugs happen, both virtually and literally.

 

[manu chao]

But if that happens, they already know everything there is to know about you anyway and have no need to check your Wi-Fi database. They've got your Address Book info, your bank site links and cookies, your email, your personal letters, etc.

The point is that I save on my computer what I consider the computer to be safe enough for, which includes, eg, my e-mails. I simply would like to be given the choice to decide whether I want to save certain things on my computer or not. With that database, Apple did not give me the choice because it did not inform me about this database (if it had told me, I might have run a cron job to delete it, excluded it from my TM backups, encrypted my iPhone backups, etc.).

 

[bobthedino]

Why did it take so long for Apple to release a statement?

How long would have been reasonable, do you think? A week is not too bad, especially considering we've just had the Easter holidays.

Also it's surely better to spend time to get something right. Clearly Apple has had to investigate the iOS source code to find out what was actually going on, as it obviously wasn't behaving as expected. Finding the right engineers and actually doing the work isn't a matter of hours.

 

[iPhysicist]

This is a lie



Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?

At least our overlord will now, I hope, stop collecting location data when location services are turned off. It's a disgrace that it took a media storm to shame them into action.

Apple knows where you live They go straight for your door if they want to deliver the "facepalm award" for stupid big-brother talk.

I really would like to know if you are just fooling me with a sort of sarcasm I can't understand since I am no native speaker...

...but then again I want my phone to know where it is actually - makes calls much easier and just possible.


Everyone knows how not lose his/her purse, so learn how you not lose your phone and your location is secure - until the surveillance cameras get you. But again there is help - just remember not to look into the cameras. Comes in handy during armed robberies too.

 

[whooleytoo]

I thought they said that there was not any concerns?

Because, despite how Apple excel at so many things, when it comes to handling user (quality or privacy) concerns like this, they suck.

Look at their responses to the iPhone 4 antenna issue:
"You're holding it wrong" - Blame the customer.
'Every phone has the same issue' - Our phone is bad, but no worse than anyone else's
'Let's change how the signal bars are displayed' - Let's hide the problem.
'Let's give a bumper case with the iPhone' - Let's offer a solution to some users, to get them off our back for a problem we used to deny even existed.

I'm not even saying the antenna issue was a serious problem, but Apple's dismissive attitude is only throwing fuel on the fire. If they had tackled it quicker, it would be never have been newsworthy.

It's great that Apple are addressing this (location) issue much quicker, but still it only is happening after they initially denied there was any issue, and waiting for the furore to grow before acting.