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I would have liked to see Steve answer the Question how consumers are supossedb to connect there consumer video camera ( of wich 95 % only have Firewire ) to there consumer Macbook.

I just don't get it.

Maybe because the new USB spec is faster than the new Firewire? Theoretically speaking of course, 4.8Gbps and 3.2Gbps respectively. Also if you need to connect your current devices, for $60-$70 you can get a Firewire port if you need one it seems: http://tinyurl.com/3l34f7
 
Blu-ray licensing

Typical Steve-talk defending the current lineup. When Blu-Ray/Touchscreen/Netbook Macs are released, he'll turn around and pretend like it was the best idea since sliced bread.

While I do really like the new Macs, I would really like to see a sub $800 compact Mac, with something like an iPhone OS (bare-bones).

All you have to do is google "blu-ray licensing" and you'll know exactly what Steve Jobs is talking about. It is a mess and includes both licensing and patent complications.

It is not at present a trivial matter, as some of the people on this forum seem to suggest, of just sticking a blu-ray drive into a piece of hardware and calling it good.

Here's a post from a user on another forum who, I thinks, begins to sum up some of the hurdles to overcome...

squiggleslash @ Oct 14th 2008 2:25PM
DisplayPort 1.1 is semi-compatible with HDMI, that is an HDCP-encumbered HDMI signal can be converted into a DisplayPort signal fairly simply. While it's not entirely analogous to DVI vs HDMI (DVI was electrically compatible with HDMI), it certainly would be no bad thing if TVs and receivers started having DisplayPort sockets instead of HDMI sockets and there would be no problem with people creating converter gadgets, as long as you're going HDMI-to-DisplayPort only, and not the other way.

The licensing issue with Blu-ray is convoluted, both from the point of view of there being no unified licensing authority, and the technical requirements needed to comply with the licenses.

For getting the required patents, the same problem nearly afflicted DVD, the DVD Forum eventually created the DVD6C, a one-stop-shop for most of the DVD patents and technologies. Anyone creating anything DVD related just goes to DVD6C and the MPEG LA and they're covered. The BDA lacks an equivalent.

For complying with the licensing, things get awkward because of the secure path requirements. All Blu-ray discs are encrypted using AACS, and a license to support AACS requires that from the moment the data is decrypted, it only pass through secure channels before being converted electrically into lights on a screen. When you own the whole widget, that's relatively easy to comply with. For standalone players, you control the OS on your player, and you just need to output the picture via HDMI encrypted with HDCP and you're covered.

But for a computer based player, it gets more awkward. Apple is going to have to make major architectural changes to Mac OS X to make it possible to play Blu-ray movies on a desktop machine without violating the AACS licenses. It's not impossible - part of the reason Vista has so many problems is that Microsoft has endured the same exercise and spent enormous amounts of time making digitally signed device drivers work, so an HD DVD player application could guarantee that it was talking to a real monitor and not some program pretending to be one. Given Microsoft's preferred format was dumped by Hollywood, they must be kicking themselves.

Apple are also in a similar position to Microsoft. They want digital downloads to succeed and see downloads as being the future. They "took a side" in the BD vs HD war, but appeared to have done so just to spite Microsoft (they backed Blu-ray), and have never actually turned their support into anything concrete. Which makes sense, because while Microsoft's support for HD DVD had some basis in it (HD DVD was designed to integrate into a digital downloads system, and indeed the "ghost" of HD DVD lives on as Xbox Live Marketplace which is almost entirely based upon HD DVD technology), Blu-ray is more of a rival to downloads than a friendly infrastructure, and as such Apple's support for the technology never made much sense.

I'd be surprised if Apple does anything with Blu-ray beyond support it as a disc storage system, at least in the near future.
 
Newer camcorders mostly have USB now. They record on Flash (SDHC cards) or hard drives so you don't really need realtime video transfer

Strange, I have a DV-cam right next to me and it has an USB-connection....

:eek:

MrCrowbar: actually ultra-compressed video files stored in HardDisk-Camcorders arent good as videos stored in Tapes. (and is almost unusable for videoediting)

Evangelion: Usually usb connection in DV cam can only transfer still photos camera may take... you cand use that usb for videos

(sorry for my bad english)
 
I would have liked to see Steve answer the Question how consumers are supossedb to connect there consumer video camera ( of wich 95 % only have Firewire ) to there consumer Macbook.

I just don't get it.

yeah, like 5 years ago, have you been camera shopping lately?
 
I would have liked to see Steve answer the Question how consumers are supossedb to connect there consumer video camera ( of wich 95 % only have Firewire ) to there consumer Macbook.

I just don't get it.

I am with you on that! What about my FW HD's, my FW DVD-RW's and my ability to link iMac to iMac for back-up or install? It was something MANY MORE PEOPLE used than most acknowledge and it pisses me off! Not to mention the price? I am embarrassed for Apple - thinking they can pull a MS and raise the price for less? Who would give-up multi-touch and even aluminum for a $750 MacBook? When you are competing with $450 LOADED notebooks from the Big 3 - you remain a boutique line.

Bummer - this update was a major disappointment. I will keep my MBP and MB from 2 years ago and 1 yer ago respectively. Not that anyone cares.

Apple should - but their ego is too large to give a rats ass.

D
 
Strange, I have a DV-cam right next to me and it has an USB-connection....

Most use USB for picture or still transfer and not FMV. Does your do FMV over USB? Does it take hours for an hour of video over USB if it even does that?

It would not take that much effort and time over FW.

D
 
I was waiting for BR, but I see why Apple didn't. Simply because of their profit margin. I'm not 100% sure, but I think there's at least $100 difference per unit. By introducing new units, they still sell lots of macs, but then when the initial selling whines out a bit, they'll throw a BR update and processor bumps etc. Hope by that time, Blue-ray's price falls too.
 
All you have to do is google "blu-ray licensing" and you'll know exactly what Steve Jobs is talking about. It is a mess and includes both licensing and patent complications.

It is not at present a trivial matter, as some of the people on this forum seem to suggest, of just sticking a blu-ray drive into a piece of hardware and calling it good.

Can you offer an explanation as to why everyone else seems to be managing it? Regardless of the hurdles you have to overcome, if Apple want to compete they have to be able to offer the things which other companies threw in months ago. It's a joke.

Apple were clear supporters of Blu-Ray from the start and I love the quote from that previous MWSF from Jobs. They have given up for their business gain, why support a technology that is in competition with their Digital Downloads? Its about profit and selfishness.
 
Can you offer an explanation as to why everyone else seems to be managing it? Regardless of the hurdles you have to overcome, if Apple want to compete they have to be able to offer the things which other companies threw in months ago. It's a joke.

Apple were clear supporters of Blu-Ray from the start and I love the quote from that previous MWSF from Jobs. They have given up for their business gain, why support a technology that is in competition with their Digital Downloads? Its about profit and selfishness.

Everyone else? Who are you talking about exactly? Did you bother googling the licensing differences between players and computers?

What companies just "threw it in" a couple of months ago?
 
I don't think it's the cost of licensing that's at issue, it's the technical compromises required. Look at how crippled Vista is by supporting the "secure channel" stuff required by the movie studios. It kills performance and reliability.
 
:eek:

MrCrowbar: actually ultra-compressed video files stored in HardDisk-Camcorders arent good as videos stored in Tapes. (and is almost unusable for videoediting)

Evangelion: Usually usb connection in DV cam can only transfer still photos camera may take... you cand use that usb for videos

(sorry for my bad english)

But... isn't DV "digital video"? I can't imagine a tape can store more data than a hard drive. Maybe it's a bandwidth thing then... you can just make the tape faster for higher quality. And all video editing apps I know have to convert DV into their own (compressed) format so you can work with it. So you might as well record with efficient compression (even RED cameras do it) on the camera itself.

I had a Sanyo HD1000 and an HD700 not too long ago. The USB was indeed slow to transfer stuff, but not unbearable, still faster than realtime. But the compression really showed when you had noise (high ISO setting) or had any kind of shaking or panning in your video (i.e. everything not shot on a tripod). The HD1010 is supposed to have way better compression but the very bad auto-focus and the lack of wide-angle zoom (necessary for anything indoors) didn't change it seems. 720p with 60 fps is awesome though, you really feel the difference between 30 and 60 frames per second. Those small cameras don't have the optics to for sharop 1080i/p footage anyway. The bigger Sonys and Panasonics might.
 
So many things disappoint me with the new MacBook Pro: glossy screen (useless for pro photographers), just one Firewire connector (means I have to daisy-chain all my Firewire devices and have them all turned on, even if I just want to use the last device in the chain) and that silly black frame around the display along with black keyboard. The old minimalist all-silver design works for me!

Nope, my Powerbook G4 is staying for a while longer.
I was expecting a "pro" update, but the only professional thing about the new MacBook "Pro" is its pricetag. Other than that it's a very expensive consumer laptop.

My thoughts exactly. I, too, have a Powerbook G4 and wanted desperately to upgrade, but not so much now.
 


Blu-Ray - "It’s great to watch the movies, but the licensing of the tech is so complex, we’re waiting till things settle down and Blu-ray takes off in the marketplace."

Article Link

Apple simply cannot fit Blu-Ray drive into the new less-than-an-inch thin MacBook Pro's yet just like they couldn't put G5 in Powerbooks. What an excuse! :rolleyes:
 
I couldn't agree with you more, mikaelwahss.

Dealing with photography and RAW files, backup DVDs fill up real quick. A Blu-Ray burner would be of great benefit to me. I don't buy Apple's excuse for not including them when other laptops already do (if the pricing really is so high they could at least let buyers have the option of choosing between a regular superdrive or a Blu-Ray burner. This is after all a "pro" machine).
(I don't even have any Blu-Ray movies, so I couldn't care less about viewing them on my Mac).

This.

This news is frustrating. I've wanted to make the switch from PC to Mac for the past year, and Apple is making it difficult for me to get on the bandwagon.

Some users don't want blu-ray, think it's a gimmick or whatever. That's fine, and it's not for you. HOWEVER, there ARE users who HAVE moved into the high-def format, and appreciate what it has to offer. Not only that, but storage is also a huge issue. For those of us shooting exclusively in RAW (as previously mentioned), those files take up a lot of space. Especially as cameras continue to develop in this direction.

Yes, I want to take 21 megapixel images in RAW, yes I want to record video at 1080p and play them on a 52" LCD, and yes I expect an Apple notebook to make that easy for me.

I've been holding out since January so having been extremely excited about this release, my disappointment is proportional. I'll hold out until Apple's January thing, and if it doesn't come then, I'll definitely examine what Dell and others have been offering for quite some time now.

One of the things that attracted me to Apple was the prospect that they led technology. Certainly true with the iPod, but the statements at yesterday's event added up to: we're playing it safe, we're going over after everybody else does. :confused:
 
A few vocal people may be "screaming for tables" but the market in general has shown that tablet PCs are a small niche market. They make great props for Sci-Fi channel shows, but they're not exactly burning up the sales charts. This is what Jobs means when he says that the tablet idea "hasn't made a lot of sense to us", i.e. "doesn't look like it'd make any money".

I bet a tablet would make more money then that overpriced notebook that's only purpose is being thin.
 
A few vocal people may be "screaming for tables" but the market in general has shown that tablet PCs are a small niche market. They make great props for Sci-Fi channel shows, but they're not exactly burning up the sales charts. This is what Jobs means when he says that the tablet idea "hasn't made a lot of sense to us", i.e. "doesn't look like it'd make any money".

Yeah, right. That's why all the other brands are fighting to get into this market. If Apple had released the tablet today, you would be saying exactly the opposite. I don't get the people that thinks Apple is always right. They're there to make money not to be right, and sometimes they won't be right.
For example, today, I get they want to push the MBP into the regular consumer, but why not a matte screen BTO. We had that choice before (and I guess 90% went with the matte screen as I have never seen a glossy MBP). The same with BR: just make it BTO and charge for it. Give people choices.
 
Do people know what nascent means? It's not a bad thing. The market is very much nascent. Though small ultra-portable laptops have existed for awhile, the "netbook" thing really only took off with the EeePC and that hasn't been out for much more than a year. That's nascent.

Nothing in that statement means that Apple won't or isn't working on a netbook of their own.
 
:eek:

MrCrowbar: actually ultra-compressed video files stored in HardDisk-Camcorders arent good as videos stored in Tapes. (and is almost unusable for videoediting)

Evangelion: Usually usb connection in DV cam can only transfer still photos camera may take... you cand use that usb for videos

(sorry for my bad english)

Mini DV tapes are compressed files also. The ones compressed in MPEG4 or using the H.264 codec for HD aren't bad at all.
 
I'll bet you are totally wrong.

A thin notebook appeals to anyone who has to carry a machine in a briefcase.

A tablet appeals to people who want to be in Star Trek.

C.

And too students, designers, business people doing presentations, teachers, etc.

The Macbook is thin certainly you can stick that into a briefcase.
 
All you have to do is google "blu-ray licensing" and you'll know exactly what Steve Jobs is talking about. It is a mess and includes both licensing and patent complications.

It is not at present a trivial matter, as some of the people on this forum seem to suggest, of just sticking a blu-ray drive into a piece of hardware and calling it good.

Here's a post from a user on another forum who, I thinks, begins to sum up some of the hurdles to overcome...

squiggleslash @ Oct 14th 2008 2:25PM
DisplayPort 1.1 is semi-compatible with HDMI, that is an HDCP-encumbered HDMI signal can be converted into a DisplayPort signal fairly simply. While it's not entirely analogous to DVI vs HDMI (DVI was electrically compatible with HDMI), it certainly would be no bad thing if TVs and receivers started having DisplayPort sockets instead of HDMI sockets and there would be no problem with people creating converter gadgets, as long as you're going HDMI-to-DisplayPort only, and not the other way.

The licensing issue with Blu-ray is convoluted, both from the point of view of there being no unified licensing authority, and the technical requirements needed to comply with the licenses.

For getting the required patents, the same problem nearly afflicted DVD, the DVD Forum eventually created the DVD6C, a one-stop-shop for most of the DVD patents and technologies. Anyone creating anything DVD related just goes to DVD6C and the MPEG LA and they're covered. The BDA lacks an equivalent.

For complying with the licensing, things get awkward because of the secure path requirements. All Blu-ray discs are encrypted using AACS, and a license to support AACS requires that from the moment the data is decrypted, it only pass through secure channels before being converted electrically into lights on a screen. When you own the whole widget, that's relatively easy to comply with. For standalone players, you control the OS on your player, and you just need to output the picture via HDMI encrypted with HDCP and you're covered.

But for a computer based player, it gets more awkward. Apple is going to have to make major architectural changes to Mac OS X to make it possible to play Blu-ray movies on a desktop machine without violating the AACS licenses. It's not impossible - part of the reason Vista has so many problems is that Microsoft has endured the same exercise and spent enormous amounts of time making digitally signed device drivers work, so an HD DVD player application could guarantee that it was talking to a real monitor and not some program pretending to be one. Given Microsoft's preferred format was dumped by Hollywood, they must be kicking themselves.

Apple are also in a similar position to Microsoft. They want digital downloads to succeed and see downloads as being the future. They "took a side" in the BD vs HD war, but appeared to have done so just to spite Microsoft (they backed Blu-ray), and have never actually turned their support into anything concrete. Which makes sense, because while Microsoft's support for HD DVD had some basis in it (HD DVD was designed to integrate into a digital downloads system, and indeed the "ghost" of HD DVD lives on as Xbox Live Marketplace which is almost entirely based upon HD DVD technology), Blu-ray is more of a rival to downloads than a friendly infrastructure, and as such Apple's support for the technology never made much sense.

I'd be surprised if Apple does anything with Blu-ray beyond support it as a disc storage system, at least in the near future.

Best post on Blu-ray that I've read in a LOOONG time.

Personally, I don't see Apple supporting Blu-ray playback for a long time, maybe never. I think Apple is thinking very similarily as Microsoft with their XBox 360: we have HD movies/tv shows as downloads. However, in terms of storage, I can see Apple doing this eventually.
 
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