Sure.
I suppose the replacement was the result of people "adapting"...?
touche. BUT. The single jog dial controller hasn't changed, only the software has been updated to make it easier to navigate.
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Apple on iPhone 4 Reception: Signal Strength Display Issue Only, Software Update Coming
- Thread starter fruitbat04
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touche. BUT. The single jog dial controller hasn't changed, only the software has been updated to make it easier to navigate.
I think after about 12 stories [on here] about this in the last few days, all with over 1000 comments it's safe to say we are all very, very well aware.... just sayin'
It will be interesting to see if the software fix affects bars dropping. A failure to address this properly will result in even greater criticism against Apple (especially when the problem seems to be physical rather than software related).
Sometimes
…I think you guys are ridiculous.
It's just difficult to understand why and how you guys get so irate, but I think it locks you guys off from Ockham's Razor. Of course, the "number of entities" you have to assume to explain something depends on how you've articulated you're theory. Sometimes you can make a complicated theory sound simple: "Apple simply f*ed up, and now they're blaming it on someone else" sounds simple enough.
But I've run my own tests, and people out there have run the same tests. When I "death grip" the phone, the signal drops to 1 bar: but my internet throughput is still passable. Hell, it's better than my 3G's throughput. Some of us get the dreaded "Searching…" prompt, though. That means that the phone, sometimes, acts on the information it has about the signal, which is (as Apple claims today) incorrect.
This variance from person to person means either:
iFixit's iPhone 4 teardown explains that Apple has been working on this software for some time; and, correctly implemented, it could improve (has improved) call quality:
How did iFixit know it was "buggy?" More importantly, what would such bugs look like?
The "theory"—and what I once thought was an untested theory is starting to look like the fact of the matter—is simple: our problems are caused by buggy baseband software. It's dropping our calls, picking the wrong signals, and missing the mark overall. This explanation makes sense of why all iPhones are having similar, but not the exact same, problems: the software was Apple's attempt at improving signal for all users, not just iPhone 4 users!
Of course it sucks to wait for a lame software update, but at least it can be fixed. —and it makes sense. —and it doesn't require us to give up all hope.
Of course, this mundane explanation doesn't have the added benefit of making our lives seem more dramatic. We all could use a little action in our lives. Going to the Apple store to return our phone, having to argue with Apple's "Geniuses," and so on… we tell these stories like war stories. But we should not let our desire to have interesting things happen to us cloud our judgment. I know it sounds nice to say, "That shady, back alley company is ripping us off because they knew this was a problem. Now they want us to buy bumpers. They intended for this to happen! It's a conspiracy, bro!" —but conspiracy theories don't help us in the long run.
Cheers, guys.
…I think you guys are ridiculous.
It's just difficult to understand why and how you guys get so irate, but I think it locks you guys off from Ockham's Razor. Of course, the "number of entities" you have to assume to explain something depends on how you've articulated you're theory. Sometimes you can make a complicated theory sound simple: "Apple simply f*ed up, and now they're blaming it on someone else" sounds simple enough.
But I've run my own tests, and people out there have run the same tests. When I "death grip" the phone, the signal drops to 1 bar: but my internet throughput is still passable. Hell, it's better than my 3G's throughput. Some of us get the dreaded "Searching…" prompt, though. That means that the phone, sometimes, acts on the information it has about the signal, which is (as Apple claims today) incorrect.
This variance from person to person means either:
- There is a manufacturing defect that varies the effect of the signal issue from phone to phone. Apple has to diagnose the problem and replace the phone on a case-by-case basis—after which they'll fix the broken phones and sell them as refurbs to recoup costs.
I doubt this is the problem—it is too weird to be a mere defect. The hairline cracks on the 3GS were a manufacturing problem with the plastic. This, however, is both consistent (bars usually drop on phones when touching the band) and inconsistent (the bars don't correspond to the performance of the phone most of the time).
- There is a software bug that not only displays the signal strength incorrectly, it takes actions that make no sense given the signal information. I have no idea what the baseband software does to deal with interferences, voltage drops, and other RF problems. We do however have every indication that Apple—in its quest to make the iPhone work better on ATT's network—has tweaked the software that does all of the work!
iFixit's iPhone 4 teardown explains that Apple has been working on this software for some time; and, correctly implemented, it could improve (has improved) call quality:
iFixit.com's iPhone 4 teardown. said:
How did iFixit know it was "buggy?" More importantly, what would such bugs look like?
The "theory"—and what I once thought was an untested theory is starting to look like the fact of the matter—is simple: our problems are caused by buggy baseband software. It's dropping our calls, picking the wrong signals, and missing the mark overall. This explanation makes sense of why all iPhones are having similar, but not the exact same, problems: the software was Apple's attempt at improving signal for all users, not just iPhone 4 users!
Of course it sucks to wait for a lame software update, but at least it can be fixed. —and it makes sense. —and it doesn't require us to give up all hope.
Of course, this mundane explanation doesn't have the added benefit of making our lives seem more dramatic. We all could use a little action in our lives. Going to the Apple store to return our phone, having to argue with Apple's "Geniuses," and so on… we tell these stories like war stories. But we should not let our desire to have interesting things happen to us cloud our judgment. I know it sounds nice to say, "That shady, back alley company is ripping us off because they knew this was a problem. Now they want us to buy bumpers. They intended for this to happen! It's a conspiracy, bro!" —but conspiracy theories don't help us in the long run.
Cheers, guys.
Well, it goes this way: if you have a weak signal at first, that is somewhere under -52 dbm but over -113 dbm, then the attenuation and detuning is serious. Say, you have a two-bar signal, and then you put your fingers in the wrong place, it will drop up to 24 dbms. If your original signal is strong, no drop. If your original signal is weak, it may interrupt the call.
What Apple has been doing overstates the strength of the signal. That makes the drop look huge and abnormal. Actually, the sensitivity of the new antenna brings in more marginal and weak signals, but the attenuation is higher too.
Get a bumper or other case. Then you have zero problem, and much better reception than any previous iPhone.
No, but I and others dont create 50 posts a day talking about how the phone works. There are 1 or 2 threads for that and we post in those. The minority is always the loudest.
Anandtech's signal strength scale is in dBm, which is a logarithmic scale. The total signal available to the iPhone can drop by as much as 99.99% (-51 dBm to -91 dBm) before bar #5 goes away under the current display algorithm. That's a factor of 10,000 drop in signal strength before it shows 4 bars instead of 5.
For more about dBm, see this Wikipedia article
The weakest signal that generates one bar (-113 dBm) on the iPhone is around 5 femtowatts. A full 5 bars (-51 dBm) is around 8 nanowatts, a signal about 1.5 million times stronger that the weakest one that displays a bar.
You guys are fascinating.
Do you really have nothing better to do than to read through posts from people who are very frustrated with their phones? Must have pretty exciting lives.
The fix doesn't affect bars dropping, it only shows you a more accurate representation of your signal strength. If you had bars drop & dropped calls before, you'll have them after.
Soeeee, one of you intelligent geek types
Antenna
Proximity
dropped calls
I am going back to my 3G and hope the damn 4.0 upgrade did not screw it up. Come on Steve FIX the Friggen thing!!!!! Do Not leave us Apple overs out in the cold!
If you can only get EDGE where you are, then you can make calls. Getting on the web may be like watching paint dry. If you can make the call at "2 or 3" bars now, you will still be able to make the call at one bar in the future.
I think you guys are ridiculous.
It's just difficult to understand why and how you guys get so irate, but I think it locks you guys off from Ockham's Razor. Of course, the "number of entities" you have to assume to explain something depends on how you've articulated you're theory. Sometimes you can make a complicated theory sound simple: "Apple simply f*ed up, and now they're blaming it on someone else" sounds simple enough.
But I've run my own tests, and people out there have run the same tests. When I "death grip" the phone, the signal drops to 1 bar: but my internet throughput is still passable. Hell, it's better than my 3G's throughput. Some of us get the dreaded "Searching " prompt, though. That means that the phone, sometimes, acts on the information it has about the signal, which is (as Apple claims today) incorrect.
This variance from person to person means either:
- There is a manufacturing defect that varies the effect of the signal issue from phone to phone. Apple has to diagnose the problem and replace the phone on a case-by-case basisafter which they'll fix the broken phones and sell them as refurbs to recoup costs.
I doubt this is the problemit is too weird to be a mere defect. The hairline cracks on the 3GS were a manufacturing problem with the plastic. This, however, is both consistent (bars usually drop on phones when touching the band) and inconsistent (the bars don't correspond to the performance of the phone most of the time).
- There is a software bug that not only displays the signal strength incorrectly, it takes actions that make no sense given the signal information. I have no idea what the baseband software does to deal with interferences, voltage drops, and other RF problems. We do however have every indication that Applein its quest to make the iPhone work better on ATT's networkhas tweaked the software that does all of the work!
iFixit's iPhone 4 teardown explains that Apple has been working on this software for some time; and, correctly implemented, it could improve (has improved) call quality:
How did iFixit know it was "buggy?" More importantly, what would such bugs look like?
The "theory"and what I once thought was an untested theory is starting to look like the fact of the matteris simple: our problems are caused by buggy baseband software. It's dropping our calls, picking the wrong signals, and missing the mark overall. This explanation makes sense of why all iPhones are having similar, but not the exact same, problems: the software was Apple's attempt at improving signal for all users, not just iPhone 4 users!
Of course it sucks to wait for a lame software update, but at least it can be fixed. and it makes sense. and it doesn't require us to give up all hope.
Of course, this mundane explanation doesn't have the added benefit of making our lives seem more dramatic. We all could use a little action in our lives. Going to the Apple store to return our phone, having to argue with Apple's "Geniuses," and so on we tell these stories like war stories. But we should not let our desire to have interesting things happen to us cloud our judgment. I know it sounds nice to say, "That shady, back alley company is ripping us off because they knew this was a problem. Now they want us to buy bumpers. They intended for this to happen! It's a conspiracy, bro!" but conspiracy theories don't help us in the long run.
Cheers, guys.
I like you. Marriage?
Why moan?
I'm really amazed at how many people on here are moaning about there iPhone 4 purchases.
Did you not think that the first major revision of a product would undoubtedly have some flaws? Well here they are people...
Don't get me wrong I'm all for Apple, the iPhone and Mac... But lets not forget they are a company who are making lots of money from users who carn't even phone contacts currently!
I hope they get a fix in place fast!
I'm really amazed at how many people on here are moaning about there iPhone 4 purchases.
Did you not think that the first major revision of a product would undoubtedly have some flaws? Well here they are people...
Don't get me wrong I'm all for Apple, the iPhone and Mac... But lets not forget they are a company who are making lots of money from users who carn't even phone contacts currently!
I hope they get a fix in place fast!
I guess I do. Because if I had a phone that worked as advertised, I wouldn't be spending my time listening to the whining.
But since I don't...
But now you're doing it too. Why do you guys insult one another? When you insult one another, you only insult yourselves.
Wow.I think you guys are ridiculous.
It's just difficult to understand why and how you guys get so irate, but I think it locks you guys off from Ockham's Razor. Of course, the "number of entities" you have to assume to explain something depends on how you've articulated you're theory. Sometimes you can make a complicated theory sound simple: "Apple simply f*ed up, and now they're blaming it on someone else" sounds simple enough.
But I've run my own tests, and people out there have run the same tests. When I "death grip" the phone, the signal drops to 1 bar: but my internet throughput is still passable. Hell, it's better than my 3G's throughput. Some of us get the dreaded "Searching " prompt, though. That means that the phone, sometimes, acts on the information it has about the signal, which is (as Apple claims today) incorrect.
This variance from person to person means either:
- There is a manufacturing defect that varies the effect of the signal issue from phone to phone. Apple has to diagnose the problem and replace the phone on a case-by-case basisafter which they'll fix the broken phones and sell them as refurbs to recoup costs.
I doubt this is the problemit is too weird to be a mere defect. The hairline cracks on the 3GS were a manufacturing problem with the plastic. This, however, is both consistent (bars usually drop on phones when touching the band) and inconsistent (the bars don't correspond to the performance of the phone most of the time).
- There is a software bug that not only displays the signal strength incorrectly, it takes actions that make no sense given the signal information. I have no idea what the baseband software does to deal with interferences, voltage drops, and other RF problems. We do however have every indication that Applein its quest to make the iPhone work better on ATT's networkhas tweaked the software that does all of the work!
iFixit's iPhone 4 teardown explains that Apple has been working on this software for some time; and, correctly implemented, it could improve (has improved) call quality:
How did iFixit know it was "buggy?" More importantly, what would such bugs look like?
The "theory"and what I once thought was an untested theory is starting to look like the fact of the matteris simple: our problems are caused by buggy baseband software. It's dropping our calls, picking the wrong signals, and missing the mark overall. This explanation makes sense of why all iPhones are having similar, but not the exact same, problems: the software was Apple's attempt at improving signal for all users, not just iPhone 4 users!
Of course it sucks to wait for a lame software update, but at least it can be fixed. and it makes sense. and it doesn't require us to give up all hope.
Of course, this mundane explanation doesn't have the added benefit of making our lives seem more dramatic. We all could use a little action in our lives. Going to the Apple store to return our phone, having to argue with Apple's "Geniuses," and so on we tell these stories like war stories. But we should not let our desire to have interesting things happen to us cloud our judgment. I know it sounds nice to say, "That shady, back alley company is ripping us off because they knew this was a problem. Now they want us to buy bumpers. They intended for this to happen! It's a conspiracy, bro!" but conspiracy theories don't help us in the long run.
Cheers, guys.
Lets ignore Apples letter admitting the problem.
Lets ignore Anandtech's excellent review, especially its final words.
Lets make up our own scenario with no evidence to justify keeping our defective phone.
Go ahead, keep your defective phone that Apple admits and won't fix.
Ignore other competitive phones which are as good or better because they're not Apple products. Because Apple always makes the BEST products which NEVER have MAJOR defects and because they ALWAYS resolve customer issues.
Or maybe... just maybe... ditch the defective phone while you still can and buy a real phone that does as much without the fundamental problem.
Just a thought
That's what you get for sleeping near store for 3 days waiting for a ******** phone.
Just playin'. But I really would like to have the "lucky ones" cease from giving us consumer advice. We'll return the phones as a last resort because in every other way it's very cool.
And knowing that your phone works as advertised gives us hope. Don't hate, congratulate.
Damn right. Reality TV is successful based on the same principles.
It makes Apple stronger too.
Yes please.
More than just a display issue.....
My wife and I both upgraded to the iphone 4 from the 3G. We never had a problem with our signal or iphone internet speeds until we upgraded. Our Att signal is usually pretty strong in this area so, even though both our phones have the dropped bars issue when held, we seldom experience a dropped call. However, we do have major issues with the data speeds on both iphone 4's when compared with the 3G or 3GS.
Our neighbor still has his 3G and he is consistently getting faster data downloads on his 3G than we are on our iphone 4. I've done extensive speed tests on each phone and our iphone 4's data speed is much worse. (regardless of if we are holding the phone or not)
I've called att and they said Apple is working on a fix. I called Apple and they said it's the at&t networks fault. (Data works great on the 3G in the same location so I don't see how it can be att's issue. otherwise the 3G would preform poorly as well from the same location)
I even wen't into the att store and showed the reps the issue. They used the demo 3GS at the store and we compared it with both my wifes and my iphone 4 and on every test or internet site we tried the 3GS was much faster at loading pages. Sometimes our iphone 4 would even time out. The rep said it's a definite problem with the iphone 4 and they have seen it with many customers. He said he would expect apple to have a fix shortly. But now Apple is saying it's simply an error in how they display the bars. APPLE - This is more than just a "wrong formula" in how you display the bars.
I'll be returning both our iphone 4's before my 30 days is up if Apple does not address the issue before then.
My wife and I both upgraded to the iphone 4 from the 3G. We never had a problem with our signal or iphone internet speeds until we upgraded. Our Att signal is usually pretty strong in this area so, even though both our phones have the dropped bars issue when held, we seldom experience a dropped call. However, we do have major issues with the data speeds on both iphone 4's when compared with the 3G or 3GS.
Our neighbor still has his 3G and he is consistently getting faster data downloads on his 3G than we are on our iphone 4. I've done extensive speed tests on each phone and our iphone 4's data speed is much worse. (regardless of if we are holding the phone or not)
I've called att and they said Apple is working on a fix. I called Apple and they said it's the at&t networks fault. (Data works great on the 3G in the same location so I don't see how it can be att's issue. otherwise the 3G would preform poorly as well from the same location)
I even wen't into the att store and showed the reps the issue. They used the demo 3GS at the store and we compared it with both my wifes and my iphone 4 and on every test or internet site we tried the 3GS was much faster at loading pages. Sometimes our iphone 4 would even time out. The rep said it's a definite problem with the iphone 4 and they have seen it with many customers. He said he would expect apple to have a fix shortly. But now Apple is saying it's simply an error in how they display the bars. APPLE - This is more than just a "wrong formula" in how you display the bars.
I'll be returning both our iphone 4's before my 30 days is up if Apple does not address the issue before then.
I've been playing with field test mode on my first-gen iPhone and I see a -20 dB attenuation when holding it certain ways. At home it'll go from about -85 to -89 dB (three bars) to -103 to -109 dB (one or two bars.) I get audio cut-outs when holding the phone, so I usually lay it on a table and use the headphones. I rarely get dropped calls.
If the iPhone 4 I ordered yesterday exhibits the same signal strength attenuation, as per the Anandtech article, I won't be any worse off. In fact, it'll probably be better due to the iP4's better reception at low signal strengths. And if I can insulate the external antenna to reduce the attenuation to only -10 dB, it'll be a definite win (I plan on experimenting with cellophane tape. )
If the iPhone 4 I ordered yesterday exhibits the same signal strength attenuation, as per the Anandtech article, I won't be any worse off. In fact, it'll probably be better due to the iP4's better reception at low signal strengths. And if I can insulate the external antenna to reduce the attenuation to only -10 dB, it'll be a definite win (I plan on experimenting with cellophane tape.
)