Apple on iPhone 4 Reception: Signal Strength Display Issue Only, Software Update Coming

[firewood]

Are these jokes?

And for the record, Steve Jobs ranted and raved about the new antenna design, and how it was far superior.

No joke. I find the iPhone 4 antenna to be superior, especially the way I now use it.

Do you really think it's my fault for not understanding my reception would be worse than it was with the 3G?

No. But neither is it Apple's. RF behavior is not precisely specified by any cell phone manual that I can find, only the usual ambiguous marketing-speak. And the reception isn't at all worse for many many people. Caveat Emptor.

Tell me I need a case, or tell me during the WWDC that you can't hold the phone in a specific location. Show me any documentation that states I have to hold my phone a certain way or that I need a case and I'll agree with you.

Show me any Apple documentation that says the iPhone 4 will work in less than -85 dBm conditions, no matter how you hold or position it. I'll show you documentation from several different cell phone manufacturers that recommend against holding their device certain ways, so it's not an uncommon requirement.

Assumptions are not equal to reality.

 

[tatonka]

Show me any Apple documentation that says the iPhone 4 will work in less than -85 dBm conditions, no matter how you hold or position it. I'll show you documentation from several different cell phone manufacturers that recommend against holding their device certain ways, so it's not an uncommon requirement.

Assumptions are not equal to reality.

I would really like to see one of those. So far none of the phones I owned required a certain way to hold them beyond the obvious, don't cover the microphone / earpiece etc. In my experience it is an uncommon requirement.

T.

 

[Journojulz]

Murder employees and demand perfection different.

Just wonder if the software display fix will sneak in "boost signal when bars drop dramatically" tweak...

 

[Yr Blues]

in the next IOS update, when you hold it wrong it beeps at you....when you short the circuit.....Jobs calls it the new Operation App

that's the fix....beep....or better yet, vuvuzela

 

[Ramius]

I hope you all protest against the iPhone4 and exchange it back for jour money. Show Apple you Are not stupid.

There will always be s new iPhone, dont keep it just because it is new. Videos have clearly demonstrated that this is a hardware design flaw.

PROTEST!

 

[firewood]

So far none of the phones I owned required a certain way to hold them beyond the obvious, don't cover the microphone / earpiece etc.

It's obvious not to cover the microphone? I have to not cover the mic? Show me where that's documented in the manual. What a crazy expectation. That's were I normally put my hand. I have a case that doesn't have a cut-out there. What a stupid design. They should have put the mic inside the phone where I can't cover it up. What about when I have laryngitis? I expect the mic to be telepathic when I have laryngitis. How else can I make calls? Where do I sign up for the class action defective mic suit?

And I thought just the camera was a really bad design because they put the lens right under my finger...

 

[einmusiker]

Oh, c'mon. If this were ANY other company other than Apple, you KNOW (know to the bitter end), you'd be calling for an FTC investigation, a massive class action lawsuit and probably wouldn't be satsified until the company was outright shut down!

are you serious??? yes this antenna issue is a problem for apple but anyone with half a brain knows the signal strength and dropped calls are all att's fault.

 

[Lord Vader]

I would really like to see one of those. So far none of the phones I owned required a certain way to hold them beyond the obvious, don't cover the microphone / earpiece etc. In my experience it is an uncommon requirement.

T.

Am I holding it wrong?

 

[BobVB]

Caveat Emptor.

Wow, I'm sorry but the times when a company can just say 'tought s***' to the consumer is long past.

Show me any Apple documentation that says the iPhone 4 will work in less than -85 dBm conditions, no matter how you hold or position it. I'll show you documentation from several different cell phone manufacturers that recommend against holding their device certain ways, so it's not an uncommon requirement.

But putting the antenna so it is unavoidably touched while being used in a normal fashion is a design flaw and with all the dozens of pictures of the iPhone being held precisely that way there will be no recourse in a court - people have a right to non-defective products, and a 24dB drop in signal when holding it normally out of the box is a defect. you can shill for  all you want here but this will be settled in the courts now and knowing what we know  will most likely lose big time. many times.

It is very pretty out of the box though and fortunately Ghost Armor decreases the attenuation enough that it doesn't drop calls at my home (less decrease than duct tape by the way but enough).

Since they won't let me return it without paying $30 I just spent that on Ghost Armor. But I do feel I've been had and stuck with it, those who depend on me for tech advice I have advised to avoid it and even though I own one I sure hope  gets a big paddling over this from as many different courts and venues as possible (and not in the good way).

It doesn't matter how many times you say it Firewood, the facts are clear - a cell phone that has a 24 dB signal drop just from being held normally is defective - just look at the far more minor things that have led to class action settlements makes this one a slam dunk.

 

[Lord Vader]

Wow, I'm sorry but the times when a company can just say 'tought s***' to the consumer is long past.


But putting the antenna so it is unavoidably touched while being used in a normal fashion is a design flaw and with all the dozens of pictures of the iPhone being held precisely that way there will be no recourse in a court - people have a right to non-defective products, and a 24dB drop in signal when holding it normally out of the box is a defect. you can shill for  all you want here but this will be settled in the courts now and knowing what we know  will most likely lose big time. many times.

It is very pretty out of the box though and fortunately Ghost Armor decreases the attenuation enough that it doesn't drop calls at my home (less decrease than duct tape by the way but enough).

Since they won't let me return it without paying $30 I just spent that on Ghost Armor. But I do feel I've been had and stuck with it, those who depend on me for tech advice I have advised to avoid it and even though I own one I sure hope  gets a big paddling over this from as many different courts and venues as possible (and not in the good way).

It doesn't matter how many times you say it Firewood, the facts are clear - a cell phone that has a 24 dB signal drop just from being held normally is defective - just look at the far more minor things that have led to class action settlements makes this one a slam dunk.

What about Nexus One? It's 17 dB drop makes it deffective?

 

[br0adband]

are you serious??? yes this antenna issue is a problem for apple but anyone with half a brain knows the signal strength and dropped calls are all att's fault.

Is that why people in the UK are having dropped calls? Because of AT&T? Funny... AT&T ain't over in the UK, that's O2... and those folks are having the same kinds of problems...

What's the common denominator?

The iPhone 4.

 

[BobVB]

Am I holding it wrong?

Well rather precariously for a device that you enter data on. The most 'normal' grip in my opinion for any device that accepts touch input is object's center of mass at the center of the grip with both high and low steadying points. Of course people can hold it other ways but any device should operate policy when held normally regardless.

 

[Lord Vader]

Am I holding it wrong?/QUOTE]

Well rather precariously for a device that you enter data on. The most 'normal' grip in my opinion for any device that accepts touch input is object's center of mass at the center of the grip with both high and low steadying points. Of course people can hold it other ways but any device should operate policy when held normally regardless.

Nokia manual for "don't hold it that way" disagress with you.

 

[Jimrod]

So with all your blustering, Apple has still won, tough cookies. Consumer Reports and PCWorld say there is no problem with the iPhone 4 antenna, in fact it's the best antenna ever.

No one is listening to MacRumors, but thousands are listening to CR and PCW. So keep posting you Apple haters, the good guys have won.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/el...hes-os-os4-iphone4-reception-problems-in.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2004...iphone_4_signal_woes_overblown.html?tk=hp_blg

Well I'm glad not all reporting is as biased, a nice objective front page story from the BBC yesterday -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10490572.stm

 

[BobVB]

What about Nexus One? It's 17 dB drop makes it deffective?

oops sorry grabbed the wrong number 19.8 (the holding naturally value) is what I meant of which the corresponding nexus value is about half that (keeping in mind that dB readings are logarithmic)

So 19.8 - defect, 10.7 (about 1/7 actual power loss) probably not.

 

[BobVB]

Nokia manual for "don't hold it that way" disagress with you.

And when we are talking about Nokia that might be relevant - there is no manual suggested way of holding the iPhone, particularly pre-launch other than the many many many many many pictures showing people holding it naturally in a way that would short the antenna. They showed it being used in the way they now say people shouldn't, a way which is both legacy and normal for such devices.

Sorry, you can apologize for  poor design all you want but there really is no consumer law leg to stand on for them.

 

[Lord Vader]

oops sorry grabbed the wrong number 19.8 (the holding naturally value) is what I meant of which the corresponding nexus value is about half that (keeping in mind that dB readings are logarithmic)

So 19.8 - defect, 10.7 (about 1/7 actual power loss) probably not.

Let's wait for the fix first.

 

[Lord Vader]

And when we are talking about Nokia that might be relevant - there is no manual suggested way of holding the iPhone, particularly pre-launch other than the many many many many many pictures showing people holding it naturally in a way that would short the antenna. They showed it being used in the way the now say people shouldn't, a way which is both legacy and normal for such devices.

Sorry, you can apologize for  poor design all you want but there really is no consumer law leg to stand on for them.

If it was my goal to apologize for  poor design ...

 

[firewood]

But putting the antenna so it is unavoidably touched

It's not unavoidable. In court, Apple can trot out some smart 6 year olds who can hold the phone properly.

while being used in a normal fashion is a design flaw and with all the dozens of pictures of the iPhone being held precisely that way there will be no recourse in a court - people have a right to non-defective products, and a 24dB drop in signal when holding it normally out of the box is a defect. you can shill for  all you want here but this will be settled in the courts now and knowing what we know  will most likely lose big time. many times.

24 dB above -113 dBm is -89 dBm. All Apple may have to do is show in court that several other FCC certified and commonly accepted cell phones will drop calls in circa -89 dBm conditions when held or positioned in various common ways. Perhaps there are FCC test results that already show that fact for some other vendor. Just because your 3GS is so well engineered that it is better than the commonly accepted minimum under some usage conditions does not mean you are legally entitled that for all future products. I doubt that a court will entertain that a product is defective just because it is so much better than other products when used correctly but sllghtly differently. (But IANAL, go ask cmeier instead).

This demonstration may well be easier for Apple because the i4 antenna is so good that Apple starts with -113 dBm (perhaps even better for all we know), whereas other cell phones likely require a stronger minimum signal.

 

[Lord Vader]

This whole "issue" is written with pitchfork on water.

 

[BobVB]

It's not unavoidable. In court, Apple can trot out some smart 6 year olds who can hold the phone properly.

People with doll sized hands probably don't because when the device's center of gravity is in the center of their grip the area will be below their flesh, regular sized people will not. They will only have to 'trot out' the pictures of how it is being held in advertising, testimony on how they have been held in the past, and the total lack of any pre-sale or even post sale pre-flaw discovery information requiring a change in normal handling. They've lost.

24 dB above -113 dBm is -89 dBm. All Apple may have to do is show in court that several other FCC certified and commonly accepted cell phones will drop calls in circa -89 dBm conditions when held or positioned in various common ways. Perhaps there are FCC test results that already show that fact for some other vendor. Just because your 3GS is so well engineered that it is better than the commonly accepted minimum under some usage conditions does not mean you are legally entitled that for all future products.

No they will only have to show that the iPhone 3GS doesn't show this drop, that other phones don't show this drop, they won't have to use numbers at all, merely past performance, advertising the iP4 as an upgrade over previous versions, and that the iP4 drop is pathologically high even among similar competing cell phones. They will lose.

 

[Lord Vader]

No they will only have to show that the iPhone 3GS doesn't show this drop, that other phones don't show this drop, they won't have to use numbers at all, merely past performance, advertising the iP4 as an upgrade over previous versions, and that the iP4 drop is pathologically high even among similar competing cell phones. They will lose.

My colleague gets 4 bars on his iPhone 4 while i get only 2 (3GS) in the same place at the same time and he is holding it in his left hand. So it not clear if they are going to lose or win.

 

[tatonka]

Nokia manual for "don't hold it that way" disagress with you.

I agree with you, that is a "normal" way of holding a phone and I would expect it to work .. however my initial points stands. It is still an uncommon requirement to hold phones in a certain way.

T.

 

[firewood]

they won't have to use numbers at all...

Have you ever been called as a witness in a legal case regarding a technology issue?

 

[BobVB]

Let's wait for the fix first.

Well that may well be - that the story of a 'bar display' fix is a incomplete - they are going to fix the radio's response to rapidly diminishing signals to maintain reception on the calls currently being dropped without admitting to it.

Sneaky and slimy but that is a possibility. But the announced 'fix' won't really fix anything, just mean that it will say you had 3 bars when your call that would have never been dropped on a 3GS drops instead of a 5.

I would like to see studies to see how much this Ghost Armor is reducing the signal loss. As pointed out the Nexus has a 10.7 drop, if a clear non destructive coating like this can reduce the signal loss to a 1/5 or 1/7 of what it was without it,  should just give it way for the sides. You and I both know the next version will have a coating of some kind on the antenna system if it is external, they should just be honest and start putting it on now. That really would have solved the problem.

but in leu of a real solution to dropped calls I have no doubt that the class actions will continue and ultimately prevail.