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Apple Opening Up iPhone's NFC Chip to Third-Party Developers in iOS 18.1
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By sacrificing security? no thank you. Besides, it’s not true. Apple has never, ever, charged merchants any fee for accepting apple pay. They do charge the banks a fee, but not the stores. If apple charged merchants a fee, apple pay wouldn’t work at stores accepting contactless payments in countries where apple pay isn’t officially supported, which it does. Stop spreading that myth.
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Point is that they have had access to NFC for years. This doesn’t really give them or any consumer anything new other than payment cards.
The article doesn’t say anything other than “pay the associated fees”. What are the fees? Do you know? The article doesn’t. Are they one time at entitlement? Will it be the same 0.015% that comes out of the card processors fee per transaction?
Unless the fee is significantly higher than the Apple Pay fees I’d say there is a good chance of banks forcing only their apps. Even with equivalent fees the extra value if app lock in, direct customer interaction, and data mining opportunities will drive the banks to be first party app only.
I would expect the fee to be at least the same as what Apple already charges for apple pay. They won’t lose money, that’s for sure.
Since contactless cards came out (and have been out for a while in most of the world), I don't see why banks and governments should be worried about how locked down Apple Pay/Apple Wallet is.
Perhaps governments should be more focused on making our ID usable within apps like Apple Wallet so we can remove the physical wallet from our pants pocket/purse. There's no way your Social Security card or driver's license is more secure within a physical wallet than on a phone that can be locked down and wiped remotely. Oh that's right... That means they wouldn't be able to gouge people for replacements that are lost/stolen.
Perhaps governments should be more focused on making our ID usable within apps like Apple Wallet so we can remove the physical wallet from our pants pocket/purse. There's no way your Social Security card or driver's license is more secure within a physical wallet than on a phone that can be locked down and wiped remotely. Oh that's right... That means they wouldn't be able to gouge people for replacements that are lost/stolen.
You are thinking about using Apple to pay on a web site. There you may need to provide shipping location. digital good maybe not.
This is about using your phone to pay at a terminal. In that case, the Apple Pay payment does not include your actual credit card number and it doesn't include any personal identifiers. If you use your normal credit card it may make that information available.
Are you sure about that? I tried to get an answer for this question, and could not find a definitive answer. Apple only says, that THEY don't collect additional details about you. But there is nothing saying that Apple Pay transactions are more private than regular card payments.
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A POS transaction doesn't send much data. Apple is sending a ghost card instead of your actual credit card, so there shouldn't be much available for the seller to use to track you.
Yeah, but the device account number (you call it ghost card), is stable over time. Which means a merchant CAN track you. I could not anwer the question, if the merchant gets the cardholder name. They do when you use a regular card. Not sure about Apple Pay though. As I said, Apple avoids saying anything definitive in it's communication about this topic.
I’ve noticed that when I use my card (at physical stores) the receipt usually shows the last 4 digits of the card, my name and my card issuer’s name. However, when I use apple pay instead of the card the receipt only shows the last 4 digits of the device account number; it never shows my name or my card issuer’s name. The seller is definitely getting less info from apple pay than from the physical card.
No this only unlocks the iphone’s nfc for payments. For everything else, it was already unlocked years ago and at no extra cost for devs.
They don't know who you are though as opposed to credit cards. Win for Apple Pay privacy.
I do not believe the merchant gets the cardholder name - but I could be incorrect.
The merchant usually doesn’t get the cardholder name when using apple pay (or any other mobile wallet for that matter). At least that’s my experience.
Depends on your definition of privacy I guess. I don't think Apple Pay prevents large retail chains to correlate your purchases. Not knowing your name is only a small inconvenience. Once you join a loyalty program at any retailer and then pay with your phone, marketers will likely be able to attach a name and address to your transaction history anyway.
My point is, Apple Pay is not a panacea for privacy as some probably think. It is more secure though in comparison with physical credit cards.
And a big win for consumers.
Only if one joins a loyalty program. I’m in only one loyalty program and that’s at a local supermarket.
The merchant doesn’t get the cardholders name. That’s a big plus. The fact that Apple Pay is not cash is the next thing akin to it.
It emulates the NFC part of EMV. That's why it could be rolled out so quickly worldwide.
Wikipedia is a good starting point if you want to know more.
Seems to support what I’m saying in that the retailer (merchant) does not know the name of the customer.
Probably, and I never claimed it to be part of the transaction. But the tracking of customer behaviour needs unique, stable identifiers. And the device account number is exactly that. The cardholer name is not really unique, especially if you have a very common name.
Anyway. You seem to be very happy about the privacy properties of Apple pay, and that's fine.
You made the point that the merchant could identify the person. The merchant can’t. Now if the customers uses a loyalty card, sure.