Apple Opposes India's Plan to Access iOS Source Code

[BGPL]

Uh no way. I wouldn't trust the source code for a pocket calculator with India, let alone the world's flagship mobile operating system. Tell India you're going to pull out, they need the jobs and infrastructure more than Apple needs cheap labor.

 

[MacLawyer]

We keep saying this and that may be the red line. But this might really be the red line.

 

[CocktailHour]

Better to leave the market. Fight all the way.

 

[jooish]

I'm so sick of this nonsense.

Stop using labor arbitrage and manufacture in the USA. I will pay the higher prices. And if other countries won't buy our innovation because they want to back door it, then that country needs their countrymen to revolt and fight for their own freedoms.

This idea that Americans can't make things, but poor Indians, Mexicans and Chinese can is nonsense and I vehemently reject it.

 

[chris1958]

Apple needs to bring Manufacturing back to the US. It turns out they need to train Americans to build stuff in America.

First: The article is not about production, but about requirements for selling phones in India. Perhaps Apple should retreat to the states and stop bothering other countries with their products?

Second: Apple should start training Americans for working for less than 1$/hour - that's what they pay in India.

 

[kemal]

The belief that they have labs capable of doing security audits on source code is pure hubris.

 

[It’s always something]

I'm so sick of this nonsense.

Stop using labor arbitrage and manufacture in the USA. I will pay the higher prices. And if other countries won't buy our innovation because they want to back door it, then that country needs their countrymen to revolt and fight for their own freedoms.

This idea that Americans can't make things, but poor Indians, Mexicans and Chinese can is nonsense and I vehemently reject it.

Americans won’t work for the wages that “poor Indians, Mexicans and Chinese” will. Math is math.

 

[TruthAboveAllElse]

As far as I am aware, original Mac assembly was state side according to Walter issacson’s book.

When he came back to Apple it was too expensive to do it

It was. If you watch the original Macintosh presentation in full Steve goes over the manufacturing facility in it as well.

 

[jooish]

Americans won’t work for the wages that “poor Indians, Mexicans and Chinese” will. Math is math.

If you read what I said you can infer that Americans wouldn't be paid the same wages as poor Indians, Mexicans and Chinese.

You can tell by how I said "I will pay the higher prices."

 

[centauratlas]

This sounds like a gross overreach of what government is supposed to be? I really don’t understand why India is like this, instead of trying to cooperate in the global economy?

Because they want to control their citizens. I'd also add that IF India got access to the source, it wouldn't be long before it leaked and everyone (or at least the bad "everyones") would have copies. White hats might benefit and help us all, but it would be a mess.

 

[It’s always something]

If you read what I said you can infer that Americans wouldn't be paid the same wages as poor Indians, Mexicans and Chinese.

You can tell by how I said "I will pay the higher prices."

Fair point, poor reading on my part. But people in general are absolutely not going to pay that kind of money for a phone. It’s not going to happen.

 

[The_Gream]

I know this isn’t on topic, but as people keep bringing up production.

My dad worked for one of like 2-3 companies in the USA that manufacture the stuff that goes on power poles (anchors, those fuse looking things etc). Before they sold out to a big corporation, afaik nearly everything was fabricated in house (screws etc because of tolerances). When the corp took over they kept trying to change things to save/make more money.

Import bolts and nuts from Mexico, but then the work has to refab the part because the tolerances aren’t right. Or changing the powered coat on those fuse like items (original was a low heat bonding coat - as the product is designed to break in a surge which produces a lot of heat 500 degrees), the new coat they tried requires a higher temp to bond. A temp above 500 degrees, which makes every unit now busted from the get go.

America is capable of manufacturing just fine. It’s the greed of corporations and the money they waste in doing stuff that DOES NOT WORK, and the OVER paid management.

It’s amazing how the height of American production, saw the management not making much more than then guy on the floor.

 

[indychris]

Tim Cook: "How much are principles selling for these days? Oh, ok, send them the code!"

 

[Techwatcher]

Not even China requested this wtf lol

 

[jooish]

Fair point, poor reading on my part. But people in general are absolutely not going to pay that kind of money for a phone. It’s not going to happen.

Then you'll know the real value of these devices and the importance of getting the latest model every year. When people can no longer afford the latest iPhone, the secondhand market will boom, as will small business repair shops.

My car is over 7 years old. Do I want the latest model? Of course I do... but it's not financially responsible to get a new car every time there's an upgrade model released, nor is it that important for me to justify the expense. My car is expensive and made in the USA with parts sourced from the USA to the highest possible degree for it's model year. Newer models are made with even more parts sourced locally.

Also, automation is a thing. Entirely new manufacturing plants can automate to a much higher degree and require less human labor... which is a good thing if we want the cost to be down without exploitation or enriching foreign powers. Not to mention the other orders of effects that come with having a domestic manufacturing powerhouse...

 

[groove-agent]

I have a few Indian clients who moved from India. They usually tell me how corrupt the Indian government is. What's stopping them from selling the source code to an Apple competitor? If I was Apple, I'd just completely pull out from India if that's how they're going to be, despite any potential sales there.

 

[@Brett]

India want to access source code for security review. How about they get their citizens to stop scamming the rest of the world from the call centers. Fix your own backyard first.

 

[seek3r]

The failing non-innovating EU set the example.

Is it really necessary to do the Trumpesque insertion of a pile of derogatory adjectives every time? The EU is neither failing nor lacking in innovation, you can disagree with EU policies without doing this

Other nations such as UK, Russia and India followed.

The EU pushed what they (and I) see as better consumer regulations, India and Russia have been trying to push authoritarian control policies, pretending they’re the same is absurd. Again you may not *like* or agree with EU policies, but they arent doing what Russia or India are on this

China surprisingly has been very respectful in comparison because they know how to innovate and make their own software.

Er, are we talking about the same China here? The one where, at work, we have to isolate our beijing team’s access very very carefully to manage all the compliance rules on both sides? We have to be careful about any of the teams outside the US on some things because of compliance environments, but I dont have nearly the headache around, say, our EU and UK based teams that I do for our one major China based team

Instead of trying to destroy and fine US companies they build their own solutions. The worst they do is just not let companies like Meta run amock.

Yeah, ok, sure dude

 

[JMalone]

Is it really necessary to do the Trumpesque insertion of a pile of derogatory adjectives every time?

Number one, I’m a Canadian.

Number two, the world isn’t black and white like virtue signalling culture warriors want it to be. Sometimes liberals aren’t happy with the failing EU’s lack of innovation and the corruption of countries like Russia and India and their insistence in harming the west’s innovation.

 

[seek3r]

Number one, I’m a Canadian.

I said Trumpesque, it’s his speech pattern, I didnt say you voted for him

Number two, the world isn’t black and white like virtue signalling culture warriors want it to be.

Define virtue signaling in this case?

Sometimes liberals aren’t happy with the failing EU’s lack of innovation and the corruption of countries like Russia and India and their insistence in harming the west’s innovation.

Ok, but what’s your criteria for “lack of innovation” or “failing” here? Just saying it doesnt make it so, it’s unnecessary hyperbole, Trumpesque

I do think we agree on Russia and India at least FWIW

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Anyone know if Jobs preferred domestic manufacturing/assembly? Fully-Automated? I know they tried JIT long time ago (it failed at that time).

You're not seeing the bigger picture. India requires domestic investment of manufacturing in order to get access to their population, which is intelligent for all parties involved as the more high paying jobs are created the more sales.

Steve tried full automation at NeXT and it was abysmal. Same at Apple. We will have domestic production for the US, for China, for India, and all that's left is Europe and South America.

 

[TinyMito]

This sounds like a gross overreach of what government is supposed to be? I really don’t understand why India is like this, instead of trying to cooperate in the global economy?

They want to extend the scams business. So many call and scam comes from that same country.

 

[Ja50n]

A ministry spokesperson told the news organization it could not comment further due to ongoing consultation with tech companies on the proposals.

That’s the weakest excuse not to comment that I’ve ever heard! “Ongoing consultations”? “We’re talking with other people, so we can’t talk to you!”

 

[The_Gream]

I know this isn’t on topic, but as people keep bringing up production.

My dad worked for one of like 2-3 companies in the USA that manufacture the stuff that goes on power poles (anchors, those fuse looking things etc). Before they sold out to a big corporation, afaik nearly everything was fabricated in house (screws etc because of tolerances). When the corp took over they kept trying to change things to save/make more money.

Import bolts and nuts from Mexico, but then the work has to refab the part because the tolerances aren’t right. Or changing the powered coat on those fuse like items (original was a low heat bonding coat - as the product is designed to break in a surge which produces a lot of heat 500 degrees), the new coat they tried requires a higher temp to bond. A temp above 500 degrees, which makes every unit now busted from the get go.

America is capable of manufacturing just fine. It’s the greed of corporations and the money they waste in doing stuff that DOES NOT WORK, and the OVER paid management.

It’s amazing how the height of American production, saw the management not making much more than then guy on the floor.

I wanna add to this:

Tim Cook like may C-suits get some extremely nice bonuses. Salary of 3+ million an a bonus package worth 71ish million.
That 71 million would hire a lot of Joes and Janes at 25ish an hour to assemble products.

100x25x40x52=5,200,000
People x pay rate x hours x weeks.

Many American business sent their manufacturing over seas to save money and what has happened - c-suits get richer and the grunt stay mid-upper poverty.

Apple could invest a billion dollars a year into local American assembly of some sort (heck they have how many millions and billions earmarked for American investments) and that/those town(s)/community(ies) would flourish from the influx of workers and supporting businesses.

 

[code-m]

According to some media reports of recent many scams originate and operate out of India due to poor or lack of enforcement. While other countries and regions are not exempt its prominence from India is quite telling. Rather than instil these draconian security measures, better approaches would be mass education of such scams to its populous and strengthening its laws along with enforcement to investigate, litigate and shut down these operations running rampant within the country.

This comes across more of India trying to borrow IP by duplicating a copycat, potentially exploiting vulnerabilities within the code base for personal gain or some zero day attack.

Avenues already exist to locate and report exploits and bugs to the OS maker so what’s up with this overreach. Seems like India feels its population needs to be wearing tech diapers rather than train and educate, shameful.