Apple ousts beleaguered RIM's BlackBerry as top business smartphone

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Original poster
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/11313266/1/apple-beats-blackberry-in-business-phones.html

Apple ousts beleaguered RIM's BlackBerry as top business smartphone

“Apple has ousted Research in Motion’s BlackBerry as the top smartphone for mobile workers, according to the latest research from wireless specialist iPass,” James Rogers reports for TheStreet.
“The company’s survey of more than 2,300 employees at 1,100 businesses reveals that more than 45% of mobile workers now use iPhones, up from 31% last year,” Rogers reports. “BlackBerry users, however, slipped to 32%, down from 35% in 2010.”

Rogers reports, “Google Android phones, it said, almost doubled their presence in the business market between 2010 and 2011, clinching a 21% market share and pushing Nokia, Symbian out of third place.”


Rogers reports, “Speaking during the [company's October 18, 2011] earnings conference call, Apple CEO Tim Cook said that 93% of the Fortune 500 are either deploying or testing the device, up from 91% in the prior quarter. ‘iPhone continues to be adopted as the standard across the enterprise,’ he said, noting that Lowe’s(LOW_) is rolling out over 40,000 iPhones with a custom-built application that lets employees check inventory levels.”

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• ”[iPhone is] kind of one more entrant into an already very busy space with lots of choice for consumers … But in terms of a sort of a sea-change for BlackBerry, I would think that’s overstating it.” – RIM half-CEO Jim Balsillie, February 2007

• ”The most exciting mobile trend is full Qwerty keyboards. I’m sorry, it really is. I’m not making this up.”- RIM half-CEO Mike Lazaridis, May 2008

• “We’ve now passed RIM. And I don’t see them catching up with us for the foreseeable future. They must move beyond their area of strength and comfort into the unfamiliar territory of trying to become a software platform company… RIM has a high mountain ahead of them to climb.” Apple CEO Steve Jobs, October 18, 2010


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RIM is the last company to deserve any sympathy from anyone. Wilful ignorance and denial seems to pervade the entire organization from top to bottom.

This is what happens when you don't do jack to your platform in 4 years, with an Apple product in the same segment. Slow to change, quick to make excuses. It's a fatal combination in this new market reality that treats late entrants with barely adequate offerings (and old players that can't re-invent their business) with extreme brutality.

And here's their game plan going forward:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/10/rim-to-forge-ahead-with-flash-on-the-blackberry-playbook-even-i/

Good luck with that.

RIM needs a change in management. A radical one. And they need it three years ago.
 

B777Forevar

macrumors 6502a
Jul 25, 2011
767
2
Chicago, IL
So sad. RIM was a great company. I loved their products. (Especially the BB Bold)

Oh well, if RIM continues to act like this I guess they do deserve it.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
I question the survey.
That is an average of a little over 2 people per business and by the sound of it it would be mostly small business that have no use for a BES.

I know for a fact that BP (the oil company) flat out bans the iPhone and iOS from its corporate email system (private or not) but will allow Android, BB, Windows Phone and WebOS. And from the sound of it that is pretty much the norm of oil companies. Reason being is security controls (or the lack there of for iOS)
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Original poster
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
I question the survey.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8716782/

While great news for fanboys to scream about. Something that must be pointed out is RIM's main focus is the bussiness market not the conusumer market. That market is much much smaller and Apple lets face it sucks in that market. Apple is aiming at the Consumer market.

Another thing is the Bussiness market is saturated already. Consumer market is new to the smart phone and growing in how many people want them.

Sum it up. Apple is not really stealing marketshare from RIM since Apple is not taking anything away in the bussiness market. Plus RIM is selling more phones ever quarter so it is still growing.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8532434/

Proof please.

Everything I have heard from people who used both the iPhone and WinMo/RIM device say the oposite.

They all are say that the iPhone is a great multimedia device but fails a productivity tool. WinMo/RIM are better productivity tools and the phone designs funtion better as a phone.

the Iphone fails at being a phone first and goes multimedia first.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8527505/


Then you care to explain why RIM OS has not made huge changes since BEFORE the iphone came out. There current bread and butter phone design (curve 83xx) dates back to before the first Iphone anouncement. (Not Stylus based) Even in there upcoming OS 5.0 they are not making huge changes from that set up. Hmm kills that argument there. Yet those same Blackberries are becoming more popular along with the Smart Phone wave.

You are an apple fanboy to your core and to blind to see the truth. I noticed you when people point out the logic where you are wrong you either just pay no attention to it or you pick and choose. That or you degrade to insults.

Some times I find the fanboys worse than the tolls.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8056629/


Yep. very true on all of it.

Minus apple first iPod add they are not unique and even that one was a rip off (taken from the link some one else posted)

I could see why rim is doing the music part more to stop the of its main target going over to the iPhone. What the blackberry does well is be a business phone and as it stands it king of that area with it push email and productivity tool. But put music in and it gives it that little extra edge it needed. It looks like Blackberry is prepping to add a music store to it app store. The blackberry app store is a lot older than apples.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8030699/

you missed one other thing and that is BES. Nothing so far has come close to touching that system.

As a produtivity tool in a phone there is a reason blackberry is king but the iPhone and Blackberry may both be smart phones but they are targeted at very different people. Each one is great in that respective area but not so strong at head to head.

Case and point is the Storm I feel tried to go head to head with the iPhone and failed but when RiM stayed in their normal area they ruled it and the iPhone just will not be able to really touch that area.

Now blackberry "Magnum" should be interesting.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/7946122/

Personally I think RiM made the right choice. They seem to of chosen not go after the iPhone head to head but stick at what they are good at and that is a productive business phone which I still think the Blackberry is king at what it is good at. (minus the Storm I have not seen any one call any of RiMs stuff a iPhone killer and even the storm seemed not to go head to head)

Unlike Rim HTC and others seem to be trying to fight the iPhone head to head. This means they are no longer playing the phone first game. It hurts the phones productivity
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/9220756/

For the most part RIM is able to out pace Apple and has a strong hold on a market apple is not targeting. RIM is the standard for communication and productivity tool (IT, Business, Push Email ect) and is the bar everyone tries to measure up to on that front. The iPhone seems to be the standard for the multimedia/Touch screen, web surfing phone and no one seems to change that. Yin/Yang seems to be how BB and iPhone seem to play out. They are the standard in the areas they do best in. Both phones try to play in the others enviroment and quite frankly neither do that good of a job at it. It is good enough to hold on to their core market and maybe even take a little but not close enough to be the new standard.



https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8519548/

Has apple reach the same problem that RIM has reach with the blackberry.

When was the last time Apple really release something with a WOW factor to it was when the iPhone was released. All the other updates to it are either minor or things it should of had on day 1 (MMS and G3). iTouch was expect no wow there. The new OS has mostly been just updates and not huge. Nice but not huge.
The last Mac that was released that had any wow factor on it was intel and as for design it goes back to G4 iMac. Now they are just very refined looking.

It seems most of apple products have been refined to that point there is just not much more they can do in refining the hardware. iPhone being a big one. Take a look at the Blackberry. It has reach a point were not much can really be done in refining. They have a trackpad, best physical QWERT keyboard and 3G. In the touch screen area were apple is again what can they do with out really taking away from the phone or other produces.

Apple to me has gotten to a point over all they have lost the ablity to wow because they have refined themselves to a corner.

------------------------------------------------------

Are you sure it's a good idea for you to be questioning anything Apple vs. RIM related?
 

vvswarup

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2010
540
215
I question the survey.
That is an average of a little over 2 people per business and by the sound of it it would be mostly small business that have no use for a BES.

I know for a fact that BP (the oil company) flat out bans the iPhone and iOS from its corporate email system (private or not) but will allow Android, BB, Windows Phone and WebOS. And from the sound of it that is pretty much the norm of oil companies. Reason being is security controls (or the lack there of for iOS)
Is there an argument somewhere in your long anti-Apple rant?

How about this: 93% of Fortune 500 Companies are testing the device, in the words of Apple CEO Tim Cook.

And are you trying to tell me that BP allows every device under the sun but the iPhone? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Android is any more secure than iOS? Utter baloney!!!
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Is there an argument somewhere in your long anti-Apple rant?

How about this: 93% of Fortune 500 Companies are testing the device, in the words of Apple CEO Tim Cook.

And are you trying to tell me that BP allows every device under the sun but the iPhone? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Android is any more secure than iOS? Utter baloney!!!
I was surprised as well when I was told that but that comes directly from multiple employees. Flat out iPhone ban. No if ands or buts about it. The iPhone is not allowed to have company email on the phone. They can use the web log in but that is it.

Also the 93% testing/using just means they are allowing iPhones to say get email pushed to the phone. It does not mean they are giving them to the employees.
 

miles01110

macrumors Core
Jul 24, 2006
19,261
31
The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
How about this: 93% of Fortune 500 Companies are testing the device, in the words of Apple CEO Tim Cook.
One F500 company I consult for is testing iPhones and iPads. They currently have three of each device authorized to connect to their network. Another F500 company I consult for has 5 iPhones and no iPads. Saying that 93% of Fortune 500 Companies are testing the device says nothing about how many iDevices are in use at each company.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
213
UK
It's a shame that RIM is in such a state. What I find confusing though is why I'm still seeing more people using BB's than iPhones (especially the younger generation) and yet RIM appears to be in trouble.

Blackberrys outnumber any other phone 3 to 1 at my work. And my brother is always on about how much he wants one and everyone at his school as one. Why the hell are RIM in trouble? The way I see it, they're making tonnes of sales. What am I missing here.
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Original poster
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
It's a shame that RIM is in such a state. What I find confusing though is why I'm still seeing more people using BB's than iPhones (especially the younger generation) and yet RIM appears to be in trouble.

Blackberrys outnumber any other phone 3 to 1 at my work. And my brother is always on about how much he wants one and everyone at his school as one. Why the hell are RIM in trouble? The way I see it, they're making tonnes of sales. What am I missing here.
Thinking beyond the 5 feet of your personal space and the 10 miles of your daily commute?
 

rhett7660

macrumors G5
Jan 9, 2008
12,531
2,494
Sunny, Southern California
Very interesting. Yes there product is good but it seems that people want a "smart phone" ala iPhone or Android device.

It was only a matter of time before they started to make in roads into the business/enterprise area. Good for them!
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Do you have no life? That is pathetic that you have to break and go insulting digging threw god knows how many threads to post everything off topic. None of those have anything do with the topic and were on topic where they were.

LTD is that what is has come to when someone presents and argument that kills your bashing that you have to turn around and just insult them.
 

vvswarup

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2010
540
215
One F500 company I consult for is testing iPhones and iPads. They currently have three of each device authorized to connect to their network. Another F500 company I consult for has 5 iPhones and no iPads. Saying that 93% of Fortune 500 Companies are testing the device says nothing about how many iDevices are in use at each company.
But the point is that a two years ago, no enterprise customer would touch an iDevice with a ten-foot pole. BlackBerry was king. Nowadays, that's not the case. People are willing to look beyond BlackBerry even for enterprise use.
 

interrobang

macrumors 6502
May 25, 2011
369
0
I know for a fact that BP (the oil company) flat out bans the iPhone and iOS from its corporate email system (private or not) but will allow Android, BB, Windows Phone and WebOS. And from the sound of it that is pretty much the norm of oil companies. Reason being is security controls (or the lack there of for iOS)
Well, I totally trust BP's judgement when it comes to mitigating risk.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
16,876
1,532
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
RIM is not dead yet. Nor is it irrelevant. What needs to be done is getting rid of those two idiots for CEOs. There close mindness is staggering to the point where they will dual-handedly bring RIM down.

You can't blame the engineers at RIM, since we know many of them are disgruntled at their management.
 

steve2112

macrumors 68040
Feb 20, 2009
3,023
6
East of Lyra, Northwest of Pegasus
I question the survey.
That is an average of a little over 2 people per business and by the sound of it it would be mostly small business that have no use for a BES.

I know for a fact that BP (the oil company) flat out bans the iPhone and iOS from its corporate email system (private or not) but will allow Android, BB, Windows Phone and WebOS. And from the sound of it that is pretty much the norm of oil companies. Reason being is security controls (or the lack there of for iOS)
I don't know about BP, but I know the federal government wouldn't touch iDevices for a long time. That is changing now, though. Part of what has led to the growth in the enterprise is that several competitors to BES have come to market. Good Messaging software, for example, allows control of apps installed, remote wiping, etc. for both iOS and Android devices. Good for Government allows the devices to be encrypted and more. There are other software packages that allow similar control of employee devices. Heck, even Exchange 2010 has ways of controlling end-user devices. To me, this is what has caused more iOS (and Android) devices to move into the business world, rather than anything Apple has done (other than make the devices, of course).

It's a shame that RIM is in such a state. What I find confusing though is why I'm still seeing more people using BB's than iPhones (especially the younger generation) and yet RIM appears to be in trouble.

Blackberrys outnumber any other phone 3 to 1 at my work. And my brother is always on about how much he wants one and everyone at his school as one. Why the hell are RIM in trouble? The way I see it, they're making tonnes of sales. What am I missing here.
Blackberry Messenger. It works like text messaging between Blackberry devices, but doesn't count against text message limits. That way, mom and dad don't get a nasty surprise when the kids go over the text message limit.

You are right, I still see Blackberry devices all over the place, so they should be making money. Plus, with the price of the BES licenses, they should be making money from that. Then again, I work for the feds, so my perspective is a bit warped.

IMO, RIM suffered the problem so many tech companies face, especially successfully ones. They were so confident that the corporate world could continue to use their services and devices due to things like BES integration into email, security, and hardware. They failed to see just how important apps would become. They also didn't move quickly enough in upgrading their OS. The BB browser has sucked for a long time, and their app selection is terrible. As I stated above, the rise of third-party software to allow management and control and integration of other devices has really caused problems for them. The Good software I mentioned offers just as much control and security as BES, but is cheaper and works with other devices. And there many other choices available.
 

swedefish

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2008
386
40
It's a shame that RIM is in such a state. What I find confusing though is why I'm still seeing more people using BB's than iPhones (especially the younger generation) and yet RIM appears to be in trouble.

Blackberrys outnumber any other phone 3 to 1 at my work. And my brother is always on about how much he wants one and everyone at his school as one. Why the hell are RIM in trouble? The way I see it, they're making tonnes of sales. What am I missing here.
Thinking beyond the 5 feet of your personal space and the 10 miles of your daily commute?
In all fairness to roadbloc, I do believe Blackberry is the best selling phone here in the UK. The teen crowd lives for BBM. I do sense a shift among uni students though. In the past couple of years my circle of friends has gravitated towards Android and iOS and I see a lot of iPhones around my university this year (compared to the past).
 

garybUK

Guest
Jun 3, 2002
1,466
2
In all fairness to roadbloc, I do believe Blackberry is the best selling phone here in the UK. The teen crowd lives for BBM. I do sense a shift among uni students though. In the past couple of years my circle of friends has gravitated towards Android and iOS and I see a lot of iPhones around my university this year (compared to the past).
I hate the kids with their Pin's when they loose the phone it's always 'add my new pin' iMessage is a much, much, much slicker implementation and may kill off the BBM crowd with its sheer simplicity. Blue = iMessage Green = SMS..... It has literally saved me about 50gbp whilst i'm here in Germany.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
213
UK
RIM's not out yet, not by a long shot.

The Blackberry London (concept shot here) would make it cool for business people to keep with RIM.

It looks like a WebOS device done right, with a decent sized screen. (QNX is really nice on the Playbook, and reminds one of WebOS with its gestures.)
Oooo... now that does look nice...
 
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