...but we do not trust you, so we do store that database on your device and check every picture, you are uploading to our servers. You might be a liar, so you will get checked on every upload, slomojoe. If there is a false alarm, we will review your images and approve them. You will not notice that, if you are not cheating on us. We will not tell you about your private pictures, our clerks were glaring at (...nice butt btw.) So just sit back and relax.
so then you would rather have it on icloud servers and completely in the dark ? having no knowledge of what is being scanned or compared against, having no knowledge of what kinds of images are being scanned ?
We do have one temporary choice, don’t upgrade and don’t use iCloud, it might open the door for smaller privacy based companies to emerge in the market, obviously Google and Apple are about it right now but that could change, I imagine my iPhone 12 will run several years on ios14 so it’s not like I have to find alternatives immediatelyyeah, totally, does facebook or google lay out in detail how they are scanning for csam ?
i don't think so, their system of server side scanning is infinitely more opaque, dangerous and open to considersably more abuse, they may only be using 1 database of csam which could be corrupted, they are not detailing how they are getting images or using and comparing them
apple is using only those hashes which appear in 2 separate databases which insures that the material being compared against is actual verified csam
apple is putting the database in plain sight and providing the hash for all to see and allowing 3rd party audit, we the users can check the hash on our device
if the nsa really wants to use a backdoor via the fisa they can damn sure do it anytime they want, this attempt by apple to deal with csam neither stops them nor does it make it any easier for the nsa to do what it wants, they'll just do it
i am afraid we are seeing a river of paranoia here along the lines, as you say, of "anything is possible", yeah anything is possible, tim cook may be the manchurian candidate, an nsa stooge
i don't think people are taking into account just what it would take for governments to pass legislation permanently breaking encryption and security on phones
we need to find a new way forward that balances the needs of government and the rights of users and from what i see apple is trying to do just that
in the end it all comes down to trust, if you really don't trust apple then go somewhere else, how about google
i think we have no choice but to trust and take the tradeoff of transparent, verifiable on device scanning, for the e2ee encryption that i believe apple is working toward
I would have thought they would announce it at the same time as the on device scanning. Now, i don't think it's possible with their biggest market, China, probably not allowing it. (and I wouldn't bet on the U.S. government allowing it either) in any case, I don't trust Apple anymore, but that's certainly not unique!
no one likes to be assumed a criminal and child pornographer, which i grant you is what it feels like
Yeah, was just saying that’s my plan, staying on iOS 14 and disabling iCloud… I think ios14 is going to become a feature for used iPhones, will cost more than those upgraded
sure there are alternative places to upload photos securely and we can all do that or build a home cloud or ??
Indeed. I don't trust Google and I trust Samsung even less. So my smart watch days, at least, are probably over for good. I'll probably move to Android phone and tablet. I'll pick devices that have LineageOS distros in case I feel I need to go that way. (I'd put CyanogenMod on my Samsung tablet before I switched to an iPad.)I don't trust Google or Samsung either. No expectation of trust kind of makes it easier to buy things, so I pre-ordered a Samsung flip when i could.
My Apple watch is something I'm not ready to get rid of, it's too important! So I'll have an iPhone too, but probably not as my primary.
... I always act in a reasonable way. I will not throw away that Apple stuff, but I try, not just to say "ok, just do it". Let them check that stuff on their servers with the famous database or/and find other ways to control, what obviously needs to be checked.
I understand completely. I loved my Apple Watch. (Just upgraded to an SE in November.) My Apple Watch was on my wrist 24x7x52, except when it was charging. But now it's turned off, sitting in a drawer, and there I expect it will remain until I put it up for sale. I'm currently thinking about what I want to wear for a wrist watch.
I don't disagree with you. Just commenting on the technical sophistication of the cryptography they developed. Perhaps that's the reason why they couldn't see the forest for the trees (and completely misjudged how it would be received). It looks to me like they drank their own Koolaid. They have been focused very strongly on doing other things on the device instead of the cloud (which in other contexts is great for privacy) and perhaps didn't fully understand that this is something completely different.
You really think we have slid further down the slope since the day before Snowden dropped his bombshell? Back then the NSA had everybody's pants fully down to our ankles. Apple and others were rightly furious and since then governments have been begging. Not begging for new surveillance tools, begging for Apple and co. not to shut down the ones they had. But Apple have retaliated with encrypted phones, self-erasing phones, encrypted iMessages and they are not stopping there. This is a minor concession to some genuine law enforcement/political concerns, but I fully expect the next announcement to be another step back up the slope with e2ee Photos. (Because without that, there is literally no point to this system.)
You are assuming that people will have to ask before former Apple fans say anything.
Many in relationship to 1 billion? That probably amounts to a hill of beans. I’ll bet the next fiscal quarter is going to be a blockbuster. People assume,imo, that everybody feels the way they do. Not so.
I don't even bother trying to convince anyone anymore. It's pointless. Most people made up their own mind about something and will plug their ears and scream (figuratively) when you try to tell them about anything else.
From what I understand, it doesn't screen photos in. Just out. So if your kid is about to send something that the apple AI feels shows too much skin, it warns them, and if they click "Send anyway", it sends you a copy of the picture.
That’s actually two different programs Apple launched at same time, Apple was trying to blame that for confusion… however they completely missed why people were complaining…. Not sure they are still not in the dark
