Apple Partnering With American Express on iPhone Mobile Payments Initiative [Updated]

[3282868]

nope iTunes Radio works fine without a VPN. in fact i am using it on the train right now. stuff like Netflix is another story

we have the "EC Karte" but many if not most stores do not even accept credit cards unless its some international chain like Zara or H&M. try using a Credit Card at the HUGE electronic chain like Media Markt (its like BestBuy) or any grocery store besides Real and you are out of luck. I have a prepaid credit card that i only use for online shopping or to withdraw money from any atm free of additional charge but i never really get the chance to actually pay with one. cant say ive tried at a restaurant tho. cash seems easier in that case

Odd, I used my Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa at Media Markt, did not have an issue. One aspect I noticed, similar to the UK, it was the only CC with an EMV chip, and many instances managers needed to approve any purchase from a card I used that wasn't EMV equipped. As for iTunes, that is very much the case. The iTunes Store was different; I could use my US account but the offerings were dissimilar with more German movies and shows (and BBC) than the U.S. When I did not use my VPN account, it defaulted to the German iTunes Store and Safari always sent me to the apple.de store.

The EC Karte, of which I own, is simply a debit card with a PIN used at an EFT-POS with Maestro functionality, via Eurocheque, with Visa Electron being another option. It is not the only option.

All of Germany's providers registered with the Central Credit Committee are connected in the working group Arbeitskreis der electronic cash-Netzbetreiber. According to the Federal Cartel Office of Germany, the following providers have considerable market shares:

easycash – easycash GmbH, Ratingen, with a market share of 40% (as recorded in 2007)
TeleCash GmbH & Co. KG, Stuttgart, with a market share of more than 20%
B+S – B+S Card Service GmbH, Frankfurt am Main, with a market share of 10 to 15%
WEAT – WEAT Electronic Datenservice GmbH, Düsseldorf, with a market share of less than 10%
montrada – montrada GmbH, Bad Vilbel, with a market share of less than 10% (as recorded in 2006); in 2010 they claimed they were now Germany's third most important provider
InterCard – InterCard AG, Taufkirchen b. München, with a market share of less than 10%
In 2006, the following companies had market shares of less than 3% each: DVB Processing, CardProcess, Tyco/ADT, Bank-Verlag, CardTech, CCV Allcash, EKS, Alphyra, Experian, Paycom, Lavego, Telekurs.

In 2010, only CardTech and Lavego remain from the 2006 list (as well as the six top dogs), with AGES, BCB Processing, CardProcess, Deutsche Bahn, Deutsche BP, Douglas Informatik & Service, Elavon, ESSO Deutschland, ICP International Cash Processing GmbH, Postbank, Shell and transact also offering services now.

Every ec-card is equipped with a magnetic stripe. This magnetic stripe is read-only and thus only contains static information. In addition, since the year 2000, more and more banks have started to add the EMV chip to newly issued cards. By 2008, 70% of the cards issued had that chip. The new chip is capable of processing data like a small computer and can respond to requests without the entire contents being read. In contrast to magnetic stripes, the chips cannot be copied easily. To maintain downward compatibility, especially with the Maestro card, which is most often integrated, the cards are still equipped with magnetic stripes. However, usually the chip as the more secure option is chosen wherever both means of communication are technically possible.

The magnetic stripe on a card has three paths. Until 30 September 2009, path 3 of the magnetic stripe was read for payments in Germany. Since then, the international standard path 2 is being read

The chip on my Chase Visa Signature Preferred CC and Chase Debit card worked, as further research I just did confirmed it as EMV:

EMV stands for Europay, MasterCard and Visa, a global standard for inter-operation of integrated circuit cards (IC cards or "chip cards") and IC card capable point of sale (POS) terminals and automated teller machines (ATMs), for authenticating credit and debit card transactions.

I actually learned a lot, thanks! Sorry for the long post and constant updates, but I had to figure out how I was able to make purchases via my debit and Visa cards.

EMV chip in an AmEx card, the same as my Chase Visa:

 

[Zxxv]

Years ago when Android first brought out nfc I thought it was a cool idea but now with nfc credit and debit cards it so easy to just slide my card out a bit to the magnetic stripe and tap it and go.

Why would I want to risk giving this info to a third party (Apple/Google) on an electronic device that could be vulnerable to hacking as well?

For those saying you wouldn't need a wallet you should still carry your ID and a bit of cash and I use a minimalist wallet that is uber thin and small anyway.

Honestly more cumbersome to unlock your phone, and tap while hoping the fingerprint reader reads your print correctly the first time.

why would I need to carry ID? I live in a free *cough* country haha where I don't need to show ID to anyone

 

[matrix07]

I just spent a month in Germany and have lived there, this is not accurate. You need a VPN account that will trace your IP to a US point. The iTunes Store in iOS 8 on my iPad Air was different than the US store. I used my VPN account to watch HBO GO, and noticed iTunes changed.

No, he is completely correct. For iTunes Radio you don't need VPN or that kind of thing, just US iTunes account.

 

[peterdevries]

I wish Canada was more like Germany and Japan in this sense. It's so easy to buy things you don't have money for, and I'm guilty of it too, but trying to change my ways. Debit FTW!

That doesn't have anything to do with the country. All large purchases in Germany can be made using credit cards too. It is a cultural thing. People need to get it into their heads that you should only spend money that you have or are absolutely certain you will receive.

 

[cicuz]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

Doesn't anyone use debit? I only use that, it's magnetic and chipped and is usable via the same devices as cc's; then I have a rechargeable prepaid for internet purchases..

 

[D.T.]

Yes and No to point one. I run a business and yes it does cost me money when customers use a credit/debit card. However it also costs me money when they use cash because I have to take time out to go to the bank and deposit that cash which also costs me money in terms of bank charges. Plus I have the added worries of holding cash in the business premises.

Holy smokes, I was going to say “Yes and No” on that same point.

There are actually consumer laws in the US that prevent markup to cover CC. Also most merchants (especially larger operations) are more than happy to offset the “cost of doing business” CC fees for the much greater additional volume of transactions they’d have vs. an “all cash” business (outside of very small shops, or restaurants for example, we have a great local taco joint that’s cash only).

Side note: if it’s the sort of transaction that allows for it, you can always negotiate for a discount if you’re paying cash (even if the actual reason is unspoken). Bonus side note for cars: at branded retailers is doesn’t matter, and in fact, if you’re using the brands internal financing that can actually leverage a better price as they make points through that channel.

 

[Corrode]

That doesn't have anything to do with the country. All large purchases in Germany can be made using credit cards too. It is a cultural thing. People need to get it into their heads that you should only spend money that you have or are absolutely certain you will receive.

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "that" but my point was that it's culture that drives behavior.

 

[santaliqueur]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

100% of my purchases are done with a credit card. My cards are on autopay each month, and I never buy anything I can't afford. I get rewards points, so this method of purchasing actually pays me instead of costing me anything.

Personal responsibility still means something, right? The credit card isn't the problem. The irresponsible consumer is the problem.

 

[3282868]

100% of my purchases are done with a credit card. My cards are on autopay each month, and I never buy anything I can't afford. I get rewards points, so this method of purchasing actually pays me instead of costing me anything.

Personal responsibility still means something, right? The credit card isn't the problem. The irresponsible consumer is the problem.

Exactly. Plus most new cards are EMV chip compliant, and many stores in Germany (the EU and UK) accept it. See my comment a few posts down.

 

[peterdevries]

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "that" but my point was that it's culture that drives behavior.

Well, you said "it's too easy to pay by credit card" but the facilities for payment are the same in Germany. So that's what I meant. But we are in total agreement.

 

[x5tuu]

AmEx only widely accepted in the USA and is often an exclusion in many other countries ... Even in the uk Amex isn't accepted at one of our top 4 supermarkets!

For this reason I have always elected to use Visa debit and MasterCard credit, esp with frequent far eastern travel for business and pleasure where again Amex isn't widely accepted, hopefully this won't be a barrier

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Finance and health. Insanely boring.

If you're lucky...

The last thing that I want is my finances and/or my health to be items of excitement.

 

[CausticSoda]

As a business owner, I am not too fond of amex. They charge on average a higher percentage than Visa or MC, and payments take twice as long to post to our account.

Exactly! That is precisely why they can afford to be so attractive for the consumer - because they rip off the trader. That's how it all works. Welcome to Credit Cards 101. I have a dual UK credit card account. One card is MasterCard, the other is Amex. I earn air miles on both, but using the Amex gets me many more miles per £. That is because Amex make far more profit than MasterCard every time I use it, so they can be more generous to me. It isn't rocket science, and it is why Amex is accepted in far few places (in Europe, at least) than MasterCard or Visa.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Holy smokes, I was going to say “Yes and No” on that same point.

There are actually consumer laws in the US that prevent markup to cover CC. Also most merchants (especially larger operations) are more than happy to offset the “cost of doing business” CC fees for the much greater additional volume of transactions they’d have vs. an “all cash” business (outside of very small shops, or restaurants for example, we have a great local taco joint that’s cash only).

I thought it was Visa/MC/AmEx' rules that prohibited surcharges for the CC purchases, so the retailers simply charge everyone those charges, making your second point.

 

[SockRolid]

I've been wanting to use EasyPay or some variation of it at Peet's since forever.
Makes me sick that ****ing Starbucks has an app and also works with Passbook.
Great concept art!

 

[PocketSand11]

Looks cool. I really want to see a payment system develop that isn't PayPal.

----------

If you're lucky...

The last thing that I want is my finances and/or my health to be items of excitement.

Nah, I was pretty excited when the S&P500 topped 2000

 

[3282868]

No, he is completely correct. For iTunes Radio you don't need VPN or that kind of thing, just US iTunes account.

iTunes Radio, of course, but that wasn't the point. I stated the stores offerings differ based on your reported IP, which he claimed wasn't true (Music, Movies, Tele, Apps, etc). Of course my iTunes account was able to make purchases no matter, but using my VPN completely changed the store. Maybe this is an iOS 8 issue, either way I know first hand, I lived there, work there often and just came back from a few months overseas, most of it in Germany and the UK.

 

[PocketSand11]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

Yeah, Americans should keep extra cash rather than spending it all and more, all under the assumption that they'll keep getting income. Maybe they've learned after the recession of 2008/2009.

 

[stockinvestor]

Whitout:

• VISA
• MasterCard

and a full world wide cover of the function, they will have a floop..

 

[bushido]

Doesn't anyone use debit? I only use that, it's magnetic and chipped and is usable via the same devices as cc's; then I have a rechargeable prepaid for internet purchases..

We have "EC Karten" i dont know what its called in english. it is basically tied to your bank account and you can only spent what you have on your account (but u dont "charge" the card itself so it technically isnt a debit card either). you put in ur 4 digit pin to pay or sign. its also used to withdraw money from the atm but usually only at ones that belong to your own bank otherwise you have to pay a fee of 5€ or sth redic. you see the charge about two or three days later

 

[Azzin]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

I put *everything* on my Amex card (literally all of my spending).

The reason is not because I can't afford anything, it's because it gives me 1.5% cashback on my total spending once a year (just before Xmas which is quite handy!).

Also, in the UK, any purchase over £100 on a credit card offers extra protection, in the event of the retailer going bankrupt, or issues with the item that the retailer won't help with (the card itself also offers damage/breakage cover for 90 days after purchase).

I buy something (either online in in store) and my next move is to log into my bank and send that amount of money to the Amex card to immediately zero the balance (either using an app or their website).

So, please don't insinuate that everyone that uses credit cards, does it because they can't afford things.

 

[BMcCoy]

I thought the (theoretical) plan was to link payments to your iTunes account.

That way, you could use any card you want (Apple accept Amex).

It reduces choice (you have to pay with whatever card your iTunes is registered to) but does mean Apple pay the cc surcharge. Ah... THAT's why they're not so keen on that idea..!

 

[emir]

This is NFC and what to expect in iPhone 6

Yea, that's what I was talking about as well. Just contemplating on whether or not my country will get the feature vs. it becoming another annoying "US only" thing.

 

[bushido]

I put *everything* on my Amex card (literally all of my spending).

The reason is not because I can't afford anything, it's because it gives me 1.5% cashback on my total spending once a year (just before Xmas which is quite handy!).

Also, in the UK, any purchase over £100 on a credit card offers extra protection, in the event of the retailer going bankrupt, or issues with the item that the retailer won't help with (the card itself also offers damage/breakage cover for 90 days after purchase).

I buy something (either online in in store) and my next move is to log into my bank and send that amount of money to the Amex card to immediately zero the balance (either using an app or their website).

So, please don't insinuate that everyone that uses credit cards, does it because they can't afford things.

thats one of the reasons "Media Markt" in Germany isnt acceptimg credit cards. my visa would cover the costs if lets say my macbook breaks so i wouldnt have been able to buy one using my cc at Media Marlt because they want to sell their own 2 years warranty bs to customers. at least thats what one of the more honest staff told me once

 

[simon48]

Doesn't anyone use debit? I only use that, it's magnetic and chipped and is usable via the same devices as cc's; then I have a rechargeable prepaid for internet purchases..

Why don't you use your debit card online?

I thought the (theoretical) plan was to link payments to your iTunes account.

That way, you could use any card you want (Apple accept Amex).

It reduces choice (you have to pay with whatever card your iTunes is registered to) but does mean Apple pay the cc surcharge. Ah... THAT's why they're not so keen on that idea..!

Yep, retailers are still going to play for the charges. Also if it went through Apple your bank statement would be all Apple, not where you bought it.