Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Relax, people are allowed to have an opinion on things. Not every argument against people wanting Apple to use a brand other than Hyundai and Kia has to go back to "Apple's automotive engineers knows best!".

Besides, maybe they are just a Nissan fan.

As for Nissan, I personally would be concerned about reliability. Although a lot of Nissan's reliability issues are trans-related, which would most likely be different different on an EV.

The CVT was big technological advancement Nissan made to switch to a continuous transmission from one with gears. There were problems for a few years but I believe they are resolved and they are on their third gen CVT. I never experienced it and I always had a warranty to go get the trans fixed if needed. They now program little jerks into the CVT so it feels like a mechanical transmission.

Nissan/Datsun also used to have a bad brand like Hyundai/Kia, but they are now up there with Toyota in my mind. Maybe Apple will do this for Hyundai/Kia as well.

Honda is another option as they have a really premium feel just like Apple projects. The Honda E already looks like a Apple Car. They just need the Honda i model.
 
Why would any car manufacturer want to make a car for Apple if it makes them another Foxconn? Apple should have just approached Tesla and have a joint car development. Maybe something innovative could come out of that. The only way car manufacturers would be okay is if their branding is still in the car. Like Kia Apple Car or something. Ford Apple Car. Toyota Apple Car. etc...
Bro...
Car manufacturers are struggling.
You hear about FOXCONN having financial troubles?
Sooooo- what would be the issue with car manufacturers stabilizing income with manufacturing contracts that make them similar to FOXCONN?
If self-driving cars as a service take off like Tesla, Apple, Google, et al expect- traditional auto manufacturers sales will shift from primarily consumers to primarily the companies providing said services.
Their only 2 options for survival are:
1) start running one of those services themselves
2) get in bed with one of the main services and provide their vehicles
 
They should be working with Mercedes. They have a brand new very advanced electric platform and high quality.

Mercedes was also the one to supply Tesla with all sorts of parts when they first got started.
I prefer German cars myself, but Mercedes ranks below Kia/Hyundai in vehicle dependability.
 
I think the interest for a car manufacturer is in technology licensing, assuming Apple has tech that they don't already have and excess production capacity. For KIA, access to Apple tech would let them compete with bigger manufacturers on features and expand their production facilities.




Tesla, right now, is dependent on selling credits to other manufacturers for a good chunk of it's cash flow. That will start going away so Tesla needs to ramp up production to the point cars are actually profitable when all costs are included.



Lexus would likely want to keep their brand on the car and dictate a lot of the features and styling; something Apple won't likely agree to. Kia, OTOH, is more likely to do so and build quality vehicles.



True, the question is can Apple's brand aadd enough perceived value to command a premium that prices it against established players?



Volvo would be interesting, but owning a manufacturing plant of that scale and size is not typically how Apple works.
In addition, if the car flops and they own Volvo they are stuck with it and can't just shut it down and probably would sell at a loss.



You also have to look at the source of the income. That'd be great if their core products were financing the investment so that if they scale back they are profitable; but in Tesla's case a significant chunk is from selling credits that will not last as other manufacturers ramp up EV sales. That also means greater competition so Tesla faces 2 challenges to long term viability. The politicaal and labor ramifications are headaches Apple likely would try to avoid; not to mention Apple would have to deal with powerful unions.

Polestar would make more sense but then Apple would be tied to China for production and technology transfer.



Tesla is one of a number of top rated vehicles by the IIHS. They're good, but so are a number of other vehicles.
Well at least you admit now that Tesla is a safe car - so it cant be crap quality
And to another statement, that Tesla is dependable on selling certificates for profit - is wrong too, after the latest quarter - they are already profitable on car production!
 
  • Like
Reactions: LooZpl
The CVT was big technological advancement Nissan made to switch to a continuous transmission from one with gears. There were problems for a few years but I believe they are resolved and they are on their third gen CVT. I never experienced it and I always had a warranty to go get the trans fixed if needed. They now program little jerks into the CVT so it feels like a mechanical transmission.

Nissan/Datsun also used to have a bad brand like Hyundai/Kia, but they are now up there with Toyota in my mind. Maybe Apple will do this for Hyundai/Kia as well.

Honda is another option as they have a really premium feel just like Apple projects. The Honda E already looks like a Apple Car. They just need the Honda i model.
Apple's engineers disagree with you.

$150K Kia awaits!
 
Well at least you admit now that Tesla is a safe car - so it cant be crap quality
Safety and quality are two different things; however, by your metric a Hyndia Genesis is as high quality as Tesla.

BTW, I never said Tesla was crap or unsafe, however Elon Musk did admit they have issues with QC. Perhaps since or to qoute TFAA "engineering consultant Sandy Munro, who tears apart and reverse-engineers cars to assess quality, issued a brutal appraisal of the Model 3 citing "flaws that we would see on a Kia in the '90s."

And to another statement, that Tesla is dependable on selling certificates for profit - is wrong too, after the latest quarter - they are already profitable on car production!
Not really. Take out those credits and their profit goes poof and they have a loss about equal to the profits they reported. The question is not can Tesla survive, which they probably can in some form, but are they worth their sky high valuation?

Besides car companies ramping up EV and Hybrid production which will reduce the demand for credits; credits are a political action that car manufacturers may press their governments to change the requirements or penalties as they ramp up; or if paying the penalty is less than paying Tesla they'll simply pay the penalty since it is less and hurts a competitor as a bonus.

As i said, Tesla's challenge is getting sales up and costs down to the point that they are profitable without the credits.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: LooZpl
Why would any car manufacturer want to make a car for Apple if it makes them another Foxconn? Apple should have just approached Tesla and have a joint car development. Maybe something innovative could come out of that. The only way car manufacturers would be okay is if their branding is still in the car. Like Kia Apple Car or something. Ford Apple Car. Toyota Apple Car. etc...
iToyota
I can work with that...
 
Safety and quality are two different things; however, by your metric a Hyndia Genesis is as high quality as Tesla.

BTW, I never said Tesla was crap or unsafe, however Elon Musk did admit they have issues with QC. Perhaps since or to qoute TFAA "engineering consultant Sandy Munro, who tears apart and reverse-engineers cars to assess quality, issued a brutal appraisal of the Model 3 citing "flaws that we would see on a Kia in the '90s."


Not really. Take out those credits and their profit goes poof and they have a loss about equal to the profits they reported. The question is not can Tesla survive, which they probably can in some form, but are they worth their sky high valuation?

Besides car companies ramping up EV and Hybrid production which will reduce the demand for credits; credits are a political action that car manufacturers may press their governments to change the requirements or penalties as they ramp up; or if paying the penalty is less than paying Tesla they'll simply pay the penalty since it is less and hurts a competitor as a bonus.

As i said, Tesla's challenge is getting sales up and costs down to the point that they are profitable without the credits.

Tesla has already past 200,000 cars sold, they no longer qualify for the tax credit, I believe it ended on January 1, 2020. Of course that could be reversed by the Biden administration and Schumer's Senate, both have stated they want to propose legislation that offers bigger EV tax credits in general.
 
Well at least you admit now that Tesla is a safe car - so it cant be crap quality
And to another statement, that Tesla is dependable on selling certificates for profit - is wrong too, after the latest quarter - they are already profitable on car production!

I thought a big step up in battery technology for Apple could be had by producing a battery with a 500 mile range, surprised to see that Lucid Motors already has one at 514, visit their website, the interior seems to be miles ahead of the Tesla in luxury quality, couple that with 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds and a battery recharge time that also beats the competition, Lucid might have something special.

Everybody has their own opinion, I'm not a fan of the one Ipad screen Tesla dashboard, I prefer the dash setup of BMW's electric Mini Cooper, the Tesla interior looks cheap, obviously you disagree.
 
Last edited:
As I said before, there's a lot of sharing in between car manufacturers, you sometimes see the base of a standard car shared with a luxury car, I do not have any examples here but I do know it as a fact.
A good example comes from a buddy with an older Range Rover
His suspension has a whole bunch of sensors and solenoids (craziness)

He did some serious cross referencing and leaning on friends with parts department backgrounds
He finally discovered the most expensive, exact same OEM parts he needed were also used on John Deere tractors.

JD parts were in neighborhood of $20 each
RR wanted over a $100 per
 
  • Like
Reactions: justperry
Because they cant - its as simple as that - apple is not that great company everyone thinks - they can hardly put an iphone together - and almost every new product has major technical issues.

Building a car is still a thing as Tesla showed impressively

Apple will be studied by business historians for centuries, they are not without flaws but your proclamation can't be taken seriously.
 
Someone break out the world's smallest violin for Apple, as they're upset how Hyundai announced a potential partnership for an Apple Car.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osamede
Hyundai is Kia’s parent company and their new luxury brand Genesis has been reviewed in depth and has received pretty high marks. There is no reason why Apple shouldn’t choose Hyundai if it makes sense to them. Apple rarely makes decisions in haste - especially not an expensive one.
Also… I have owned a Hyundai Sonata for years now. It’s been the best car I’ve ever owned. It did have a defective engine, but Hyundai took care of it and every cost associated with it including a rental while the car was at the dealership. Their customer service was impressive. And other than that defect, I’ve literally had NO issues with the vehicle and it now has 130,000 miles on it. I expect it will continue to be a good car until I part with it to something newer.
Well that's great and all, have you ever driven a Durango, a Challenger? How about a Ram or an F-150. I find it hard to believe your Sonata is the best car you'd ever own.

Kia and Hyundai are the same company... They build cars with plastic interiors, charge $5/month if you don't use autopay, and I've never seen a brakes erode so quickly than in the cars these two brands build.
 
Tesla has already past 200,000 cars sold, they no longer qualify for the tax credit, I believe it ended on January 1, 2020. Of course that could be reversed by the Biden administration and Schumer's Senate, both have stated they want to propose legislation that offers bigger EV tax credits in general.
It’s not tax credits but pollution credits Tesla sells to other car manufacturers who don’t meet green standards.
 
The reason: Kia said no to thinner batteries lol

Seriously though...I may be in the minority but I’d never buy a Tesla...they don’t offer Car Play and I don’t use Spotify. I also don’t like how their music layout appears on screen. A 15” screen and the music portion takes up 1/2” album cover that you can’t even see. Layout looks really weird.
 
Last edited:
Actually, now that I think of it, it depends on demographics.
If Apple wants to reach the masses it would need to set an aggressive price, like 30-40k.

Or they could release lots of models.
Apple car A, for the masses, A stands for affordable.
Apple car L, Luxury, 100k.
Apple car E, executive, 200-300k.

Forgot one
Apple car C, collectors item, runs in the millions.
More information is out now.

Apple will not be selling this car to the public. It will be a "last mile" delivery vehicle that is 100% self-driving and will be old to people who manage fleets of such vehicles.

Tesla started by selling $90K high-end cars and then moved down to lower price points. But it looks like Apple is making their first cars for fleet operators who do short-distance delivery and pickup.

It might sell for $180K and have a bare metal interior and no seats.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SuperCachetes
Why would Tesla agree to that? Tesla wants to control the entire development and production of their vehicles. There is no reason for Tesla to share profits with anyone else now that they're going 200 miles/hour and look unstoppable.

Not buying Tesla back in 2018/2019 is going to be Apple's biggest mistake.


Does anybody really believe that Elon could "work under" Tim and "report to" Tim?

Just like Steve could never ever have been an employee anymore after founding Apple (and NeXT), Elon cannot be employed by anyone (other than maybe his BoD). He needs to be able to call the shots. At 2 AM if it need be.

Which is pretty much the opposite of what his role in a Tesla-subsidiary of Apple would have been.

The two companies have traded key-employees over the years, so each knows how the other works and at this point it's pretty clear that while the employees love each other's products, they want to keep going their separate ways - it's probably better for both of them.
 
The Robotaxi stuff we'll have to see what happens with that as Elon threw out an over ambitious timeline and was expected by end of 2020. But FSD does look to be getting a bit more serious now so things could accelerate quickly on that front but I don't see Robotaxis coming out this year either.

Regarding manufacturing, I can imagine Toyota do a good job on the manufacturing side of things . Though I don't see it coming close to performance of any Tesla currently out now.
Elon wasn't "over ambitious," he was lying, just as he always does. There can't be ANY autonomous vehicles without legislation from Congress. Tesla is practically broke, it doesn't have the money to lobby fifty state legislatures and wait for them all to agree to allow self-driving vehicles. The only way this happens is through Congress...and Tesla doesn't have Apple money. The wealthiest lobby wins.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: LooZpl
I think the interest for a car manufacturer is in technology licensing, assuming Apple has tech that they don't already have and excess production capacity. For KIA, access to Apple tech would let them compete with bigger manufacturers on features and expand their production facilities.
Hyundai/Kia are already a major global auto manufacturer (top #5) and, in many ways, ahead of rivals in the EV space. We know very little of Apple's progress on their automous driving effort and Apple is not known for sharing their know-how or licensing their tech. They are however notorious for taking credit for someone else's contribution -- that's Jobs's ever-lasting footprint there -- and screwing their suppliers (ie, ImgTech, Samsung, GT Advanced to name a few). It's also pretty much guaranteed that Hyundai/Kia would have to sacrifice their margin to save Apple's maximum profit. The worst-case scenario is that Apple poach away Hyundai/Kia's key talents once they learned just enough to go alone -- and there are many top designers and engineers, as well as EV collaborators like Rimac that helped engineer Hyundai/Kia E-GMP EV platform -- and outsource everything to low-cost Chinese contract vehicle manufacturers.

Kia's Georgia plant had to ramp up their SUV production from 60K to 100K to meet the insane demand for new SUV, Telluride, last year, which leads me to believe the "excessive" capacity narrative isn't among the main drivers for this partnership. IMO, this is a bad deal for Hyundai/Kia through and through.

Lexus would likely want to keep their brand on the car and dictate a lot of the features and styling; something Apple won't likely agree to. Kia, OTOH, is more likely to do so and build quality vehicles.
Japansese manufacturers are not too keen on this whole EV thing, despite their early pioneering contribution decades ago. They are still pushing fuel cell tech which may or may not materialize at all.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SuperCachetes
Honestly .... who wants a self-driving / self-thinking car from Apple .... imagine having not only to listen to SIRI, when once again she cannot answer a question put to "her" via iPhone, but now she would also be driving the car telling you all the oh so interesting news of the day, while she has auto-locked the doors so you cannot escape ...

NO THANKS, please let me keep a car that I drive and where I shift the gears using a clutch = yes, stick is the way to go (drive)!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jlc1978
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.