Apple Pay Coming to Starbucks, KFC, and Chili's in 2016

tmiw

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2007
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475
San Diego, CA
But Apple Pay IS a niche option, and in the US, most retailers - especially small-medium sized businesses don't have NFC enabled hardware. Apple pay relies on NFC. All the banks in the world can support Apple Pay all they like, but Apple won't have a single customer using it unless the retailers have the hardware and software to make it possible.

FYI, AMEX NFC doesn't work on all terminals, neither does Union Pay - some only accept Mastercard and Visa. Which means that even those companies with NFC enabled terminals still might not be able to apple pay - especially with AMEX/Diners/UnionPay cards.

Apple seriously underestimated their influence and power in this instance. Customers might want it, but the number of customers using Apple Pay is so few that it's not a compelling reason for most business to change anything.
I don't know about you, but retailers are buying NFC capable terminals around here. That functionality's just either being kept turned off for the time being (possibly waiting for EMV enablement or any exclusive deals such as CurrentC to run out) or it's at a small business that has no clue that they can now accept Apple Pay. It's pretty stupid for large retailers to buy the highest end terminals if they're not going to use all of the features, especially since there are less expensive options available. Lowe's for instance probably won't do NFC any time soon because the terminal they did buy doesn't have it built in and requires an attachment.

I'm more worried about the smaller businesses, honestly. The training they're getting is really, really bad to nonexistent. I've seen a fair number of brand new NFC capable terminals placed in a way such that they can't be used by customers. Good luck if they happen to be listed on MasterCard's website and you try to ask to tap.
 
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69650

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London here:
M&S, Boots, Tesco, some Sainsbury's (not all), The Co-Operative, TFL, vending machines in airports, Domino's Pizza, countless independent pubs and coffee shops, Starbucks, Caffe Nero, Pret......
I use Tesco every day and they most definitely do not accept contactless payments.
 
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Problem is, its lack of comprehensiveness could be its undoing.

Until you can buy a car or a house with Apple Pay, we will always need debit or credit cards. And if people are used to using cards, why should they bother juggling multiple payment methods when they don't have to think when using cards?

This is why the wallet is unlikely to disappear for the foreseeable future.
Exactly right. Until 100% of shops allow ApplePay then you're always going to have to carry a debit/credit card anyway as a backup so why not just use your debit/credit card and skip ApplePay. That's why I haven't bothered to register my bank cards for ApplePay. It an unnecessary added complication to an otherwise very simple process. Plus my debit/credit card is a hell of a lot lighter than my iPhone.
 

macnewbie91

macrumors 6502
Jul 24, 2015
322
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Exactly right. Until 100% of shops allow ApplePay then you're always going to have to carry a debit/credit card anyway as a backup so why not just use your debit/credit card and skip ApplePay. That's why I haven't bothered to register my bank cards for ApplePay. It an unnecessary added complication to an otherwise very simple process. Plus my debit/credit card is a hell of a lot lighter than my iPhone.
In the United States, the banks are implementing chip & signature. Apple Pay is still a safer alternative to the chip (at the moment) since it requires your fingerprint in order to use the card. Apple Pay will also be great for online purchases through apps since the United States lacks in online fraud protection.
 

aajeevlin

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2010
922
357
In the United States, the banks are implementing chip & signature. Apple Pay is still a safer alternative to the chip (at the moment) since it requires your fingerprint in order to use the card. Apple Pay will also be great for online purchases through apps since the United States lacks in online fraud protection.
Frankly they are not even doing that great with the online part, I have yet to see Apple Pay even with most big merchants online. Also for the online, it's still hit or miss, we have had Paypal for years now, still not 100% available for all online merchants.
 

macnewbie91

macrumors 6502
Jul 24, 2015
322
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Frankly they are not even doing that great with the online part, I have yet to see Apple Pay even with most big merchants online. Also for the online, it's still hit or miss, we have had Paypal for years now, still not 100% available for all online merchants.
I blame Tim Cook for this. He's a penny pinching leader, so now all of Apple's products and their launches head downhill from the start, starting with bend gate last year, the failure of Apple Pay to expand quick enough, and the failure of Apple Music, as well as the fail of Apple Maps are just some examples. I don't recall anything new under Tim Cook not failing miserably.
 
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tmiw

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2007
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San Diego, CA
I blame Tim Cook for this. He's a penny pinching leader, so now all of Apple's products and their launches head downhill from the start, starting with bend gate last year, the failure of Apple Pay to expand quick enough, and the failure of Apple Music, as well as the fail of Apple Maps are just some examples. I don't recall anything new under Tim Cook not failing miserably.
I dunno, it sounds like Apple Pay is a lot more successful in the UK. Perhaps that should have been the launch country instead of the US. (That'd cause all sorts of teeth gnashing on MacRumors too though, not to mention that Americans retailers are experts in false economy and would permanently keep NFC turned off if that happened.)
 

aajeevlin

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2010
922
357
I blame Tim Cook for this. He's a penny pinching leader, so now all of Apple's products and their launches head downhill from the start, starting with bend gate last year, the failure of Apple Pay to expand quick enough, and the failure of Apple Music, as well as the fail of Apple Maps are just some examples. I don't recall anything new under Tim Cook not failing miserably.
I won't call it a failure "for now", I'd like to see the data before I make that conclusion regarding some of the things that you've have mentioned. However, I will admit on a personal level that I have yet to purchased/subscribed to anything new from Apple over the last several years besides the iPhone. My last purchase was the Airport Extreme also several years ago (the last gen) which is working well. I'm still holding on to my Mac Mini from 2009 because I think the newer ones are closed-off and I refuse to buy them as a form of protest.

As a consumer I try to stay logical and buy what works the best for me, and not the logo. But yes, personally I'd wish that Apple would spend a bit more money pushing Apple Pay.

One thing you forgot to mention is Siri. Compare to Google, Siri is just a pathetic sad attempt from Apple. 9 out of 10 time I can say the same thing to both Siri and Google, and I would get a better response from Google. The only adventage Siri has over Google is because it is more deeply integrated with the iPhone. I wish there is way to fully integrate Google with the iPhone.
 
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macnewbie91

macrumors 6502
Jul 24, 2015
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One thing you forgot to mention is Siri. Compare to Google, Siri is just a pathetic sad attempt from Apple. 9 out of 10 time I can say the same thing to both Siri and Google, and I would get a better response from Google. The only adventage Siri has over Google is because it is more deeply integrated with the iPhone. I wish there is way to fully integrate Google with the iPhone.
To be fair, Tim Cook probably wasn't on the inside with Siri when it first came out. I'm guessing it took a few years to get Siri up and running while Tim was still a bean counter. I'd like to think of Siri's failures as Scott Forestall's and Eddy Cue's fault, but then again, Eddy Cue is an idiot, so I'm not sure who's idea it was to promote the guy to SVP of internet services while terminating Scott Forestall soon after.
 

ImBuz

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2014
309
233
California
I was able to use "Applepay" @ Bas Pro Shops the other day--for $20, sale--I had to sign
what kind of BS is this ?
 

tmiw

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2007
2,154
475
San Diego, CA
I was able to use "Applepay" @ Bas Pro Shops the other day--for $20, sale--I had to sign
what kind of BS is this ?
Honestly, expecting not to sign at least occasionally for Apple Pay is a bit unrealistic right now. It will get better eventually. Think of it this way: Samsung Pay users are going to have to sign at far more places because of the MST technology and they seem okay with that.
 

aajeevlin

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2010
922
357
Honestly, expecting not to sign at least occasionally for Apple Pay is a bit unrealistic right now. It will get better eventually. Think of it this way: Samsung Pay users are going to have to sign at far more places because of the MST technology and they seem okay with that.
To build on that, a lot of the POS software are written by individual companies. Usually when my Apple Pay fail, I am usually told "we have just upgraded the software, then things stopped working". I suspect whoever write the new firmware has no idea what they are suppose to do and was just adding new code and following the same old procedures.

A fresh example, the Apple Pay at my Walgreens stopped working over the weekend. I was told that they upgraded the system to take in people's number (for loyalty program), I bet you that whoever wrote the software has no idea about NFC and simply wrote the new code and compile it like how they have been doing. Hence, breaking the NFC payment.
 

macnewbie91

macrumors 6502
Jul 24, 2015
322
193
To build on that, a lot of the POS software are written by individual companies. Usually when my Apple Pay fail, I am usually told "we have just upgraded the software, then things stopped working". I suspect whoever write the new firmware has no idea what they are suppose to do and was just adding new code and following the same old procedures.

A fresh example, the Apple Pay at my Walgreens stopped working over the weekend. I was told that they upgraded the system to take in people's number (for loyalty program), I bet you that whoever wrote the software has no idea about NFC and simply wrote the new code and compile it like how they have been doing. Hence, breaking the NFC payment.
You would think their payment processor would be the ones handling the code, while Walgreen's upper management is able to tell the payment processor what they'd like on the screen. I find it hard to believe the two companies cannot communicate about something so simple.

You should be able to go up to the counter, and while the cashier is ringing up your stuff, the screen should say "please insert or tap payment card" while displaying the Apple Pay, Android Pay, and Samsung Pay, and NFC logo along with AMEX, MasterCard, Visa, Discover, etc logos. If you use Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, or Android Pay, no pin or signature should be required. If you insert your card, the system should default to pin (but will automatically fall back to signature because of the way the banks have the cards set up.) I don't get how something as simple as payment methods is so difficult for merchants, processors, and consumers to understand.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
When are we going to get the announcement for Apple Pay in Canada?
Canadian banks have the same problem that the UK banks did: Apple wanting far too much money in comparison to the amount the banks themselves get. (US banks get a lot more than other countries.)

Now that UK banks have presumably been able to negotiate the amount down, perhaps Canadian banks can do so as well. Assuming they're willing to pay Apple at all, of course.

There should have been RED letters from Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and American Express advising merchants, merchant service providers, and banks of the deadline to change over to EMV technology, or else they'll pay for fraudulent charges.
If the fraudulent card was supposed to be a chip card.

As for timing, in almost every country that switched, it took a few years to do so.

It costs a lot to send out new cards and get new readers. About 40% of CC users in the US have chip cards right now. About 30% of merchants support EMV. That's actually pretty good for such a late start.

Ironically, Apple Pay is probably keeping many merchants from also allowing NFC payments, since they lose valuable information about user purchases due to the tokenization. It's important that Apple come up with a way for loyalty programs to work. Without costing more money, if possible.
 
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