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Apple Pay Does Not Work at the Lego Store even though they have NFC

Y

YodasMaster

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 10, 2012
120
27
Even though the Lego stores have the NFC terminals the transaction was denied. The payment went through like it had worked, beeping to acknowledge the acceptance then after signing it was denied. I then used the physical card to complete the transaction with no issues.

I went to an OfficeMax afterwards and Apple Pay worked like a charm.

Has anyone else seen this anywhere else? Perhaps there is something that stores have to do on their end to accept Apple Pay and that it doesn't work at all places that accept NFC by default. Or, perhaps the Lego Store was just having an issue with their system.
 
I had a similar experience with 7-11. Looked like it worked then said declined on the register. Had to swipe plastic. This my first and only attempt to use Apple pay. I'll try again later at Walgreens.
 
2IS said:
I stand corrected then, seemed that way from the keynotes
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a little confusing because of the "partners" they list and it might seem like it only works there. But really those partnerships are just those companies ensuring that all of their locations have the contactless readers. (And it's also an advertising thing too.)

I hope Apple gets stores to put up some kind of Apple Pay sticker or sign to make it clear.
 
rorschach said:
No they don't.

It's probably an issue with the bank. I'd call the bank and find out why the transaction was declined.
Click to expand...


I do not believe it was an issue with the bank. The clerk said that another person had tried it earlier and it also failed.
 
YodasMaster said:
I do not believe it was an issue with the bank. The clerk said that another person had tried it earlier and it also failed.
Click to expand...

Could also be something with their hardware.

Apple Pay is just a standard NFC transaction. There's nothing special or proprietary about it.
 
rorschach said:
Could also be something with their hardware.

Apple Pay is just a standard NFC transaction. There's nothing special or proprietary about it.
Click to expand...

Yep -- it's almost impossible that it's Apple Pay specific, since the merchant doesn't see that it's an Apple Pay transaction. Odds are very high that a NFC-enabled credit card or Google Play phone would have failed the same way.
 
Their NFC system needs to support "tokenization". If they have a really old NFC system, it may not work.
 
Natesac said:
I had a similar experience with 7-11. Looked like it worked then said declined on the register. Had to swipe plastic. This my first and only attempt to use Apple pay. I'll try again later at Walgreens.
Click to expand...

Strange, I know I've used Google Wallet (and what used to be ISIS) at 7-11 plenty of times when I had a Nexus 4, an S4, and a Moto X. I'll have to give Apple Pay a try at one of the locations where I've used NFC before and see what happens.
 
Eitel said:
Their NFC system needs to support "tokenization". If they have a really old NFC system, it may not work.
Click to expand...

This.

Apple Pay NFC is not similar to other NFC payment systems.

If you read the various articles and FAQs out there, the added caveats are "participating merchants" (ie. Supporting above tokenization), the card issuing bank has to support Apple Pay, and the card stored is given a "credit card" number that is unique to the iPhone, so all that, one's real credit card number is never passed around, so, a "standard" credit card and or NFC transaction cannot/does not occur with Apple Pay.

Ergo, denied transactions at merchants not on Apple's list.
 
NoBoMac said:
This.

Apple Pay NFC is not similar to other NFC payment systems.

If you read the various articles and FAQs out there, the added caveats are "participating merchants" (ie. Supporting above tokenization), the card issuing bank has to support Apple Pay, and the card stored is given a "credit card" number that is unique to the iPhone, so all that, one's real credit card number is never passed around, so, a "standard" credit card and or NFC transaction cannot/does not occur with Apple Pay.

Ergo, denied transactions at merchants not on Apple's list.
Click to expand...

I've used Apple Pay at OfficeMax even though it is not on Apple's list.
 
It seems some older nfc terminals are having some troubles. There have been reports that 7-11s do not work
 
Just got back from CVS and it worked great. Did take longer than I thought to process through the terminal (said processing, please wait) for about 30 secs.
 
NoBoMac said:
This.

Apple Pay NFC is not similar to other NFC payment systems.

If you read the various articles and FAQs out there, the added caveats are "participating merchants" (ie. Supporting above tokenization), the card issuing bank has to support Apple Pay, and the card stored is given a "credit card" number that is unique to the iPhone, so all that, one's real credit card number is never passed around, so, a "standard" credit card and or NFC transaction cannot/does not occur with Apple Pay.

Ergo, denied transactions at merchants not on Apple's list.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect, top to bottom.

The NFC reader does not participate in tokenization. The token transmitted by the phone is in the form of a valid credit card (MasterCard starts with 5, passes checksum, etc). That token is passed through to the merchant's acquirer, which also sees a well-formed card. Because the first six digits are preserved, the acquirer routes the card to the correct issuer. The issuer, because of Apple Pay integration, can map the token to the PAN.

So it is not like other NFC implementations, but the difference is opaque to the NFC reader and merchant. Which is why I was able to use Apple Pay today at a no-name vending machine, and you'll be able to use it at any NFC-enabled merchant, whether or not they are credited as a partner.
 
Natesac said:
I had a similar experience with 7-11. Looked like it worked then said declined on the register. Had to swipe plastic. This my first and only attempt to use Apple pay. I'll try again later at Walgreens.
Click to expand...

7-11 is part of the group of companies supporting MCX, so they are not supporting Apple Pay. This is the same as Walmart, Target Stores, Best Buy, etc.
 
I noticed someone said Apple Pay worked at OfficeMax. When I tried to use it at OfficeMax earlier it seemed as though it was accepted (the terminal even said so) but the cashier said it was declined. The POS terminal seemed to be the most current offered by Verifone (large screen, EMV and contactless support) however it didn't go through. The very same model of terminal has accepted my Apple Pay card elsewhere however.

It would seem that if a merchant wasn't announced during the Apple Pay demonstration that its acceptance will be hit and miss depending on the store. The only other place Apple Pay has been declined for me so far is a Mapco gas station. (It was directly with the cashier and not the pump.) She mentioned that other people had tried NFC payments at various times in the past and they've never worked.

Sadly I've seen a POS terminal with EMV support but not contactless. I hope this doesn't become a more popular option with the impending fraud liability changes. I've read somewhere that banks charge merchants more money for NFC payments than card transactions. Is that true? Banks should be giving merchants more incentive to accept more secure methods of payment, not less.
 
My Chase Visa was declined at the Lego Store, but my Costco Amex was accepted. It's not an all-out ban, so that's good news (for users, not my wallet).
 
NoBoMac said:
This.

Apple Pay NFC is not similar to other NFC payment systems.

If you read the various articles and FAQs out there, the added caveats are "participating merchants" (ie. Supporting above tokenization), the card issuing bank has to support Apple Pay, and the card stored is given a "credit card" number that is unique to the iPhone, so all that, one's real credit card number is never passed around, so, a "standard" credit card and or NFC transaction cannot/does not occur with Apple Pay.

Ergo, denied transactions at merchants not on Apple's list.
Click to expand...

This is not entirely accurate.

Apple Pay is EMV NFC Tokenization. The transaction looks to the terminal, merchant, and payment network as a normal, run of the mill transaction, such as you would get with a contactless credit card. The real magic is that the card number is replaced with the Device Account Number and the one-time cryptogram occupies the space normally occupied by the expiration date and CVV (if I recall properly).

I can offer informed speculation as to why an Apple Pay transaction might work on the terminal but fail to be properly processed:

1. Terminal isn't configured to process NFC. The hardware works, but the transaction is never sent to be authorized.

2. Terminal is actively configured to reject NFC transactions (a'la Rite Aid).

3. Merchant back-end filters out NFC transactions.


Basically, if the transaction makes it from the merchant to the processor, it should work fine.
 
re: NFC limit: I did a $77 Apple Pay at Whole Foods last week. So maybe a card-specific limit if only $50 or less.
 
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