I tried it last night - worked perfect... needed a PIN, but that was expected over $100
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Apple Pay Expands Beyond American Express in Australia with ANZ Support
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I tried it last night - worked perfect... needed a PIN, but that was expected over $100
And you actually need to read without stopping about the revenue thing. To quote from said "cited article":
Why the heck would they be worried about that though? Interac does basically the same thing. Maybe they're (gasp!) worried about the fact that Apple, Google, and Samsung have a stronger brand then them! If you've read behind the lines (and not use a smokescreen), you can clearly see that they're worried that they'll do the same that they did with the mobile industry (where the carriers no longer wield so much power). Their concerns that there are security concerns with the system are incredibly stupid as so far NO breach has directly happened under Apple Pay, or Android Pay, or Samsung Pay.
So yes: while they don't like the fact that fees are put into place (which I didn't say that wasn't true), they're not actually worried about some security thing and they're more worried about the fact that their customers are going to disassociate their branding with the other three companies. For that, your statement:
... is wrong. So before you attack me with implying that I didn't read the article,...
... read the full article!
But what bothers me the most is that you blatantly left out the parts suggesting that the banks aren't just afraid of Apple's branding and no one else's. Again, I'll re-quote my statement:
And history tells me that if some commenter who thinks they're SO high and mighty (you) leaves something out or twists the words of mine, it means they don't have an ARGUMENT! And as long as you can't prove that, my main point still stands. I guess the answer to my question of whether or not you're purposely ignoring it to prove your point (since you did it again with your response) is an empathetic "yes". But don't worry: no one noticed!
/s
Oh. And I forgot to mention something:
Branding ≠ Importance! Just become you have a stronger brand doesn't mean you're more important to society. It means you're just better known. You're more likely to see someone showing off their new phone than a new bank card. You're more than likely to see iOS and Android fans arguing to each other than two customers arguing whether TD Canada Trust is better than BMO Financial. Are you going to see two people argue about whether Apple (the company) is better than Apple (the fruit)? NO! That's stupid! EVERYONE would say the fruit is better! It's called common sense!
Seriously, dude: what kind of beef do you have with me? I feel sorry that you have to attack someone like me in order to make you feel better about yourself.
Explosive and dead wrong.
Nothing to do with branding, get off that train already. Apple offers nothing to the banks zip, zero, zilch - all Apple wants to do is backdoor into the Banks revenue stream. The Canadian banks have already invested the coin into Chip technology along with contactless pay why would they give up any part of their fees - it's a proven and secure system they offer - Apple Pay brings nothing to the party here in Canada.
So, if they want to further their as you call it "brand" they should treat Canadian banks as a loss leader and pay those same banks a fee for letting them in the door.
Bye, bye.
Ahem.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/tech...unch-leaves-big-banks-behind/article27023445/
You were saying?
Also, you actually think the chip technology was funded by the banks?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV
Still going to deny that you're just out to attack me here?
i would be surprised if any of the big 4 did not have apple pay by the end of this year. the people who ave switched to ANZ solely for apple pay at the moment are probably low value customers but the longer it takes for the other banks to implement applepay is more incentive for people to switch.
for example, in my case it was relatively easy to switch - i have no mortgage, no credit cards and as a student i don't pay bank fees - all it takes for me is a little bit of time. the cost of switching for others is higher (not just financially but time wise) but for some people it may be worth it...
I'm not sure I agree with that. By not using a credit card, you are not making your money work for you. Here's what I mean... I have a credit card that I use for every single purchase throughout the month. I get 1% cash back on every purchase up to a max of $10 cash back per month. My Salary and my Wife's salary goes into a savings account earning 3.8% pa interest. At the end of the month, we clear the credit card balance completely which means we pay no interest on the card and have earned $10. Let me tell you this, you would never earn $10 in interest by having that credit limit sat in a savings account for a month. Secondly, we earn more interest on our salary by having it in a savings account, instead of it gradually reducing by paying bills and purchasing goods. Finally, credit cards give you a lot more consumer protections including insurance on your goods. If i pay for a tv on my card and walk out of the store and drop it, it is covered on insurance from my card.
Credit cards are good if you know how to use them.
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I use AMEX Applepay in Oz and all the big players accept it without passing on charges. Woolworths, Coles, Caltex, Supercheap Auto, Myer, David Jones, Macdonalds, Subway etc, etc.
The big obstacle here is that New Zealand is not equal to Australia, and is an insignificant country in terms of services such as Apple Pay. The population of Australia is simply much bigger. The entire population of New Zealand is not even at the size of a major international city (Sydney alone has a population much larger than the whole of New Zealand), and the NZ population is spread out over an area the size of the UK. New Zealand is a severely underpopulated country. As a consequence, New Zealand, if it gets Apple Pay at all, won't get it for a long time, as it is simply not a major consideration.
Speaking on behalf of a multimillionaire relative based in Oz (when not on cruises) who doesn't use AMEX at all for the reason that it isn't accepted where they travel internationally on cruises, it is a waste of time even considering it.
Additionally they get around 10% interest on their savings per annum and don't worry about a mere $10 per month, as they get around $10000 per month in interest.
And they don't even bother with anything other than standard credit cards, and I had a larger credit limit on my old mastercard than they did when I was studying at uni.
Credit cards are a false economy, and you don't need to be a multimillionaire to know that.
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NZ has a stronger economy than Australia, as evidenced by the numbers of returning Kiwis and economic activity, additionally NZ actually has stable politics, where the Prime Minister is the same person voted into office at the election and we have the same financial system through CER treaty and are due to become the best state of Australia should NZ join the commonwealth.
If you knew anything about the Antipodes, you would know this much in secondary school.
Specifically, our part of the Aus/NZ banking system is the most profitable and props up the Australian banks by billions of dollars a year, so I am confident you don't know what you are talking about regarding the Aus/NZ banks at all.
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Clearly merchants don't charge extra where you live for AMEX transactions. I know they are significantly more than the 3% charged by VISA and mastercard on merchants.
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The reason why you cannot add it is because MasterCard's aren't supported yet but they are going to supported within the next few months - Aussie Credit Card use MasterCard.
New Zealand has a lot lower regulations as well - having worked in multiple industries I'm always amazed how many people still think that Australia is a great place to set up business given how much the federal government micromanage every aspect then that doesn't even include the micromanaging from the state government. The only saving grace that Australia has is it's larger population but even then if you can get way with operating outside of Australia (say in New Zealand) and avoid all the BS then you're better off doing so. If Australia want to join New Zealand they're more than welcome but that will involve having to accept gay marriage and start treating the indigenous people a lot better - something I don't see Australians doing lol.
I think it is something upwards of 5% in some cases for AMEX cards with AMEX claiming that because the average card holder has higher disposable income that the patronage and higher spending will off set the higher fees. For AMEX to make inroads in New Zealand they would have to drop the cost to something to equal that of MasterCard and VISA so then merchants might consider it as an option.
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Amex is my primary card, so this is very usable for me. I'm Pleased! Now my secondary card is BMO master card, so hoping that comes someday soon. But its all in the banks hands so we wait.
You're comparing banks in general to one phone manufacturer. Are you saying that everyone needs banks, but nobody needs phones? And I for one would find it easier to change banks than ditch my Apple gear and change to a different manufacturer.
Paying through a mobile device is the future. Once consumers have tried the option and enjoyed the security and speed of the transaction they will all want to go this way.
Card companies may want to resist in different parts of the world but once a couple crack the flood gates will open. AP has taken a while to take off in the UK with only a couple of banks getting involved. In recent times the major four have all joined in.
This project will be a slow burn though. It has taken a while in the UK and we have had chip and pin for over a decade as standard in all shops and restaurants. In countries that didn't have that it is anyone's guess when you will get it.
Our next advance is getting exceptions for AP to deal with transaction greater than £30. This is the limit set for contactless cards which is so much less secure.
Card companies may want to resist in different parts of the world but once a couple crack the flood gates will open. AP has taken a while to take off in the UK with only a couple of banks getting involved. In recent times the major four have all joined in.
This project will be a slow burn though. It has taken a while in the UK and we have had chip and pin for over a decade as standard in all shops and restaurants. In countries that didn't have that it is anyone's guess when you will get it.
Our next advance is getting exceptions for AP to deal with transaction greater than £30. This is the limit set for contactless cards which is so much less secure.
From what I understand it's not Apple's fault - the banks want more of a cut than Apple want to give them.
Which IMHO is fair enough, apple built the infrastructure, the protocol, supplies the devices... Aussie banks are just being greedy.
Apple didn't create the EMV protocol. EMVCo did. It's an industry standard.
The infrastructure used during a transaction belongs to the merchants and the banks.
NZ has significantly less regulations due to no Upper House & no (aussie) federal government encouraging quicker govt decisions (this maybe because the last time a PM was changed without an election was 18 years ago)
Although it is a a few years since I was in a third party Apple retailer, I think AMEX was at least 5% merchant fees.
The only people who wanted to use AMEX while I worked on Lambton Quay was the rugby world cup tourists, such as the upper-class Poms who didn't understand why Hong Kong was cheaper, yet more prone to failure. (Too much moisture.)
(To be fair, the other source of frequently failed Apple stuff was from the Sydney Airport Duty Free : too much moisture again).
Actually Apple want a slice of a pie that the banks believe is already theirs. They have a working chip/pin system and Apple Pay in reality brings nothing directly to them other than a reduction in their merchant fees. This doesn't factor in the security considerations and the opportunity to take PayPal out of the equation by using Apple Pay for online transactions.
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That might be true in NZ but not in Australia.
If that's true, they're gonna lose a Lot of customers!! I doubt one bank would want to hold out, and they are probably all scrambling now "what's this Apple Pay thing our social media support team are overwhelmed by?"
I was at CBA the other day, getting a pin set for a card (only had to wait 30 mins yay!) and the guy that helped me had no idea what Apple Pay was, more maddening he thought it was some sort of Watch only feature?!! Even though it's 17~ months old.. And he said "well we prob won't get it cause the watch failed" Otoh I don't expect the students and floor staff to know that much about non standard questions, their ignorance was unbelievable. // explained to them they could work as Myki's if they fix the terminals, and Qantas already uses similar systems. And in London if your bank supports it you're pretty much covered for trains, the Lot.
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So all android users are smart enough to only use the (just a Bit infected it's fine) google play store? There's a bunch of phones /correct me if I'm wrong/ that cannot even access the standard store they have to use Amazon etc.. Even on OS X many people disable the brilliant developer certified app warnings.. People are Dumb / lazy and "just want to get in why do I need a password? What's this pop up? Just click OK!"
As with jailbroken iOS devices, if you use Android Apps from outside google play store (or amazon store if you are one of their sucker's/customers) then you can easily get infected from a dodgy app that claims to be a pirated paid app.
This mainly affects the Chinese app stores.
As for OS X, the only minor threat is the "click-bait story website that uses javascript to try hijack your facebook account".
That takes a little work to get around.
That's backwards. It's Apple who wants a cut of each transaction... on a payment network they didn't create or pay for, using NFC payment applets Apple didn't write, for a contactless purchase their servers play no part in.
It's as if the manufacturer of chipped credit cards wanted a piece of each purchase made on one of their cards.
Again, backwards. Apple is the greedy party, and was not a builder of the worldwide payment infrastructure (terminals, payment processors, token processors, payment networks) that they now want to get a piece of.
As rjohnstone and s1m have noted, the merchants and banks paid for the infrastructure and protocol by paying Mastercard and Visa. AMEX and Discover are their own banks but otherwise similar.
Apple didn't create the tokenization. Nor did they invent or write the contactless card emulation code that's in the NFC Secure Element. Or NFC payments at all. The credit card networks did.
Apple certainly didn't spend years getting Australians and Canadians used to making contactless payments. But Apple now wants to hitch a ride on their hard work and success.
The only part Apple's servers play in a contactless purchase, is the original cardholder registration. And they didn't have to be a part of that, either, but their doing so sets up Apple to be a gatekeeper. That way, Apple can sell access to their customers to each bank.
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Apple built the stuff that is in the iPhone. They did not build any networks or point of sales terminals or invent any tokenization methods. Apple makes the user buy the phone to use the payment method. Apple doesn't supply stores with sales terminals. While banks give away for free chip+pin cards.
Apple should be paying banks.
No, i do not have it backwards.
Actually, apple did build the protocol which actually protects the consumer from disclosure of their credit card information (i'm not talking about chip and pin payment, that is not what apple pay is). Yes, ApplePay sits on top of the existing payment network that the bank's rolled out, but there is a lot more to it than that. It's an additional layer, with additional protection for both the bank and the customer.
ApplePay is not plain EMV as far as the customer is concerned, as the transaction is between Apple's account and the merchant; the merchant transaction is with Apple and Apple bills the user. It provides privacy and protection for the user (from the merchant) that standard EMV does not. It is resistant to replay attacks, for example as each transaction has a unique single use transaction ID. This is what Apple developed and provides advantages for the customer that other payment services including standard chip and pin do not. This was not free for Apple to develop.
Using ApplePay as far as the bank is concerned will probably reduce theft and other credit card attacks on their customers (via skimmers, unscrupulous merchants, etc.). So it should actually be a net win for the banks as they won't have to deal with so many fraudulent transactions and the associated disputes.
Apple is also on the hook for some of the liability regarding security of the service and the transactions. Hence, they deserve a cut.
The payment terminals, etc. do not need to be updated. The bank already gets interest on the credit card, and already takes fees from the end user.
Again, I maintain: aussie banks are being greedy about it; ApplePay adds some sorely needed security for both the banks and their customers.
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pay for a bit more on how it works. It's NOT the same as the basic chip and pin that the banks rolled out (which has quite inadequate security - e.g., see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV#Vulnerabilities - ApplePay is resistant to those), and it's clear that a lot of people don't know that. It's also what sets it apart from other half-a**ed alternatives like Google Wallet and SamsungPay or whatever they're calling it now.
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