Apple Pay Expands Beyond American Express in Australia with ANZ Support

[randyj]

I can't really see too much incentive for Apple Pay in Australia, given that everyone is used to just waving their credit card over the reader anyway. Apple Pay isn't at that much of an advantage given the convenience of contactless payment (which has been commonplace for many years).

The convenience to users is that if you lose your phone, you don't lose your credit card. The number generated is per trasaction. If ANZ also offered ATM access via contactless/Apple Pay you would not need to carry your card with you anymore. Also as the number is a once off, it protects you from fraud or someone copying your credit card details at a retailer/merchant.

The reason banks like it is for similar reasons. Every bank has a call centre that deals with lost/stolen cards and the generating of new cards and sending them out. And investigations of fraudulent transactions
IF you pay with Apple Pay you use your iPhone & fingerprint or an Apple Watch that was unlocked near your phone that had already been authenticated too. Basically the banks know if you purchase via Apple Pay, it is actually you making the purchases.
= less work & more secure for the banks

99% of retailers in Australia support contact less payments.
The banks here own that infrastructure (whoever the retailer banks with supplies the system).
I am sure the sticking point has been the fees Apple charge. Or maybe ANZ actually sat down and worked out for the extra security, it was worth paying the fees Apple was asking...

Anyway I used it before to buy some tickets to the movies after school with the kids. It worked perfectly!

 

[appledefenceforce]

The next step is to the ability to use Apple Pay to replace Opal card.

 

[diipii]

Apple today updated its Apple Pay website in Australia to note that Apple Pay now supports credit and debit cards from the Australia and New Zealand Banking Group (aka ANZ).

The ANZ website has also been updated with a new Apple Pay webpage and a report from Reuters confirms the partnership. ANZ card holders in Australia are able to add their cards to Apple Pay, which has been confirmed by a MacRumors reader.

According to the ANZ website, many Visa and American Express cards are supported, including the ANZ Rewards Platinum Card, the ANZ Access Advantage with Visa Debit, and the ANZ Business Advantage wth Visa Debit, but MasterCard, ANZ Access, and ANZ Corporate cards are not supported.

Prior to today, Apple Pay was only available in Australia through a partnership with American Express, limiting it to American Express cardholders. Apple Pay has been slow to roll out in the country as rumors have suggested Apple has had trouble negotiating fees with banks. Apple Pay also has to compete with the New Payments Platform being pushed by the Reserve Bank of Australia, the country's central banking authority.

ANZ is one of the four major banks in Australia alongside Commonwealth Bank (CBA), Westpac (WBC), and National Australia Bank (NAB). According to Apple Pay vice president Jennifer Bailey, Apple is still in talks with the remaining three banks about further expansion of Apple Pay in the country.

Apple Pay is available in the United States, the UK, China, Australia, Canada, and Singapore, with Apple Pay support being limited to American Express users in the latter two countries. Apple Pay will soon be expanding to Hong Kong and Spain under the American Express partnership, and in the near future, Apple will be introducing Apple Pay support for additional banks and credit cards in Singapore.

During yesterday's Q2 2016 earnings call, Apple CEO Tim Cook said Apple Pay is growing at a "tremendous rate" with transaction volume up 5X compared to a year ago. Apple Pay is gaining one million new users per week and is available at more than 10 million locations worldwide.

(Thanks, David!)

Article Link: Apple Pay Expands Beyond American Express in Australia with ANZ Support

Here in the UK paying with goats and chickens has expanded beyond American Express because nobody will accept their greedy interest rates. So no biggy.

 

[iGeek2014]

Here in the UK paying with goats and chickens has expanded beyond American Express because nobody will accept their greedy interest rates. So no biggy.

Come 2019/20202 AmEx may also be subject to the same Interchange Fee cap that's been imposed on Visa/MasterCard recently.

I imagine if that happens AmEx acceptance here would grow IMHO.

 

[American Hero]

If you were defending American Express because you're an employee by any means I can forward you my case number and if you could help I would love for you to. I would really appreciate that. Otherwise it's weird that you're so adamant that they're the greatest thing ever...they're not.

I'm not an American Express employee.

I just find it illogical how a worldwide card company who strives to deliver a card to you anywhere in the world by the next day, any time you need one, would have you wait until Monday morning to get a charge unblocked--especially when American Express makes most of their money on interchange fees and not from interest on their cards, like your gold charge card. The customer service rep you talked to would've been fired if I were their supervisor.

I do admire a card company that puts the customer first over the merchant, which is why I respect AMEX so much.

[doublepost=1461845797][/doublepost]

Come 2019/20202 AmEx may also be subject to the same Interchange Fee cap that's been imposed on Visa/MasterCard recently.

I imagine if that happens AmEx acceptance here would grow IMHO.

American Express has a different business model than Visa & MasterCard, usually to the customer's favor and not the merchant's favor. Their cards offer more perks and rewards for the customer (usually), while businesses get the benefit of customers that spend more money. Customers are almost always favored in a dispute over the merchant too--It's like having the mafia on your side.

American Express makes most of their money off of annual and interchange fees. Their charge cards don't carry an interest rate option. When you don't make as much money off of interest, but rely on interchange and annual fees, while also giving out more in rewards and perks, of course AMEX will charge a higher rate.

 

[hawaii529]

I'd like to point out that even though most banks in NZ are Australian banks & NZ is effectively part of the Australian banking system, Apple Pay is not in NZ yet.
I find it curious that Apple would only do half of the Australian and New Zealand economy, and the underperforming Australian economy first as opposed to the growing New Zealand economy at the same time.
There is no financial or legal obstacle to rolling out Apple pay to New Zealand, under the closer economic relations treaty, New Zealand is considered an equal partner to Australia.

*speaking from the position of a dual citizen.
[doublepost=1461797123][/doublepost]

Nobody uses American Express in NZ or OZ, not even the millionaires, as it has too high merchant fees passed on to consumers.

I use it for most of my transactions (the 90% of merchants the accept it). About the only card with no annual fee that gives rewards (air points)!

 

[MacBergin]

Apple really needs to spend time educating the banks and business' accepting ApplePay if they want everyday consumers to use it. I mean some of these business' are ridiculous. I ended up walking out of a Shaw's because with a purchase above $50 they wanted me to sign the terminal, give the 4 digit device code and show ID to complete the purchase.

 

[American Hero]

Apple really needs to spend time educating the banks and business' accepting ApplePay if they want everyday consumers to use it. I mean some of these business' are ridiculous. I ended up walking out of a Shaw's because with a purchase above $50 they wanted me to sign the terminal, give the 4 digit device code and show ID to complete the purchase.

I would've done the same thing. Accept chip and contactless transactions, and stop worrying about people providing the last four digits, their ID, and having a signature.

 

[hawaii529]

I've got UK bank cards and I live in Cambridge, NZ. I've not had any success in using them here in NZ with Apple Pay on my iPhone. Sure the tills have wireless pay which the iPhone picks up on but the payment is refused after I ok it on the phone. After a bit of discussion with others over on the GeekZone it would seem to be a vendor issue more than a bank issue that's preventing NZ roll out.

Which vendors? I tried it when it first came out in Countdown and New World and worked great with phone and watch multiple times.

 

[Tech198]

So i heard false rumors then that Apple pay wouldn't be supported Westpac then ?

 

[Matstrenet]

I actually opened an account with ANZ today (just have to wait for my card to arrive). I can see the other 3 of the big 4 following within the next couple of weeks unless they want to loose there younger market who have been waiting for Pay to be available since it launched in the US. We have had the infrastructure for years, so hopefully it won't take too much longer for it to be the generally accepted payment method.

 

[Tejas57]

I actually opened an account with ANZ today (just have to wait for my card to arrive). I can see the other 3 of the big 4 following within the next couple of weeks unless they want to loose there younger market who have been waiting for Pay to be available since it launched in the US. We have had the infrastructure for years, so hopefully it won't take too much longer for it to be the generally accepted payment method.

i would not be surprised if a number of agreements were signed today by other banks keen to get it going ASAP.

the twitter streams have been brutal - i would not have wanted to be a social media advisor today for anyone (except ANZ) - quite a few people either switching or giving timeframes for there bank to have applepay and if they don't they will switch.

i tweeted that i am in the process of closeing my accounts with NAB and moving to ANZ and the response i got from NAB was like a whiney ex-girlfriend who can't belive the relationship is over.

 

[Junior117]

Samsung Pay will come this year to Canada - put onto Samsung's road map for this year.
http://www.androidcentral.com/what-samsung-pay-means-canadians
[doublepost=1461803215][/doublepost]


Right, Apple so *did* give ground to UK banks.. we can agree on that, in contrary to what you posted:

My point is that banks don't want to let these companies do this service because again, price and branding, not that Android Pay and Samsung Pay will never come to Canada. This doesn't disprove my point. I looked at that article and it said that there's a likely chance that there's going to be limited support for credit cards (which is the same as Apple Pay). And I bet that they're also taking out money from every transaction as well (don't tell me that this is all for their goodness in their heart, because they're all out to get your money). So I don't see where you're leading to here.

REALLY!!! Everyone needs a bank (or other financial institution) in their daily lives ... ABSOLUTELY no one needs Apple for anything ... there certainly is an arrogance that comes with the Apple name.

1) If I'm arrogant, then you're acting ignorant. I also asked why Android Pay and Samsung Pay are also not available in Canada. Looking at my above comment should suggest to you that branding and pricing are the reasons, too. Is there arrogance in the Android and Samsung "name", too? Or are you going to make those two an exception? Because it very clearly looks like you're trying to pretend that I never said that.

2) Read this and then tell me again how price and branding aren't the reasons why the banks are being resistant:

http://blogs.wsj.com/canadarealtime/2015/04/17/canadian-lenders-fret-about-apple-pay/?mod=yahoo_hs

So yeah: explain that.

---------

Ignorant comment aside, I expect that Canadian banks will eventually cave in since at least one bank from Australia did so (and I expect others to follow). I think the first ones that could support Apple Pay would be Tangerine, PC Financial, or even some credit union in Ontario (ESPECIALLY the group of Credit Unions of Ontario, since they love saying that they're been the first to do nearly everything that pretty much all banks are doing now). Once those banks join up, watch how the others will follow (because they almost always do).

 

[Macyourdayy]

I'm not an American Express employee.

I just find it illogical how a worldwide card company who strives to deliver a card to you anywhere in the world by the next day, any time you need one, would have you wait until Monday morning to get a charge unblocked--especially when American Express makes most of their money on interchange fees and not from interest on their cards, like your gold charge card. The customer service rep you talked to would've been fired if I were their supervisor.

I do admire a card company that puts the customer first over the merchant, which is why I respect AMEX so much.

[doublepost=1461845797][/doublepost]

American Express has a different business model than Visa & MasterCard, usually to the customer's favor and not the merchant's favor. Their cards offer more perks and rewards for the customer (usually), while businesses get the benefit of customers that spend more money. Customers are almost always favored in a dispute over the merchant too--It's like having the mafia on your side.

American Express makes most of their money off of annual and interchange fees. Their charge cards don't carry an interest rate option. When you don't make as much money off of interest, but rely on interchange and annual fees, while also giving out more in rewards and perks, of course AMEX will charge a higher rate.

I also prefer Amex over the others, especially bank issued cards. Whenever I've had an unauthorised transaction, Amex immediately reversed it and I was not forced to have a new card and number (a disaster where all records and auto payments need to be replaced, if you're lucky). Unlike the ANZ where you're still charged the hundreds (or thousands) for the illegal transaction (the card was never out of my possession) while they "investigate" for months, and charge interest. Never mind cancelling your card(s) and issuing new numbers which is an unmitigated pain in the +*^#%.
[doublepost=1461853017][/doublepost]

I actually opened an account with ANZ today (just have to wait for my card to arrive). I can see the other 3 of the big 4 following within the next couple of weeks unless they want to loose there younger market who have been waiting for Pay to be available since it launched in the US. We have had the infrastructure for years, so hopefully it won't take too much longer for it to be the generally accepted payment method.

Younger market? Since December when Amex started ApplePay here, the most amazed people when I use it are the twenty somethings. "I didn't know you could do that!"
Keep excellent records mate with ANZ. When their insecure system bites you in the arse, you'll be forced to pay for unauthorised transactions for months while they "investigate".
[doublepost=1461853287][/doublepost]Still no contact from ANZ informing me that they support Pay, although I did get an auto reply after I activated my cards this morning, fifteen hours ago. Been working flawlessly all day.

 

[iGeek2014]

I'm not an American Express employee.

I just find it illogical how a worldwide card company who strives to deliver a card to you anywhere in the world by the next day, any time you need one, would have you wait until Monday morning to get a charge unblocked--especially when American Express makes most of their money on interchange fees and not from interest on their cards, like your gold charge card. The customer service rep you talked to would've been fired if I were their supervisor.

I do admire a card company that puts the customer first over the merchant, which is why I respect AMEX so much.

[doublepost=1461845797][/doublepost]

American Express has a different business model than Visa & MasterCard, usually to the customer's favor and not the merchant's favor. Their cards offer more perks and rewards for the customer (usually), while businesses get the benefit of customers that spend more money. Customers are almost always favored in a dispute over the merchant too--It's like having the mafia on your side.

American Express makes most of their money off of annual and interchange fees. Their charge cards don't carry an interest rate option. When you don't make as much money off of interest, but rely on interchange and annual fees, while also giving out more in rewards and perks, of course AMEX will charge a higher rate.

Fully appreciate American Express run their own Merchant network etc hence one of the reasons their fees to businesses are higher than that of Visa/MasterCard.

However in the EU a cap was placed on these Interchange Fees (one of the reasons rewards on a lot of cards are being reduced/stopped).

Third party licensees (i.e. MBNA, Lloyds Bank) will be affected by the same cap in a couple of years' time and it's rumoured it'll be extended to AmEx themselves also.

 

[kdarling]

That's pretty cynical - I don't think negotiating a lower fee for a secure payment service would have involved any sort of bribery. Notwithstanding, the end result is the same, with all parties benefiting, I'm sure.

By bribe, I meant offering ANZ a lower price, or for free, or even Apple paying THEM to use Apple Pay. (Like how Microsoft often pays companies to use Bing instead of Google.)

--

As for banks holding back, can't blame them for not wanting to give Apple ransom money, in return for Apple allowing the banks' own customers to register their own cards on their own phone, to use card emulation software provided by Visa, MC, AMEX or Discover.

Talk about selling one's customers as a product!

Plus there's the power being given to the credit card schemes for collecting the royalty, and the formerly proprietary purchase information that Apple requires the banks to feed back to them.

(Apple didn't write any of the tokenization or NFC payment code. For a contactless payment, that's done by the payment applets in the Secure Element -- applets which are written and owned by the credit card schemes.)

Moreover, Apple has already profited from the phone's hardware sale. Apple wanting money in this case, is no different than if a chip card manufacturer wanted a piece of each purchase where one of their cards was used, or if a SIM card maker wanted a piece of each phone call's profits.

(interesting info snipped)...
http://www.afr.com/technology/apple-pay-and-amex-battle-cba-and-westpacs-apps-20151127-gl9j8c
...
1. There's no need to limit Apple Pay to $100. A bank might choose to, but its authentication is rated by EMV as equivalent to chip and pin, not contactless, (ie it's a card present transaction) so it can max out at the card transaction limit.

All contactless purchases are "card present", because the card (and presumably the card owner) must be present in order to do it.

"Card not present" purchases are when someone uses the account number instead of the card, such as manually entering the account number on the internet to buy something.

 

[American Hero]

However in the EU a cap was placed on these Interchange Fees (one of the reasons rewards on a lot of cards are being reduced/stopped).

The same thing happened in America, but just with debit cards, so the networks and banks increased the fees on credit cards to the merchant, and began increasing the rewards while most debit cards eliminated rewards.

I did forget to mention before how Visa Signature and World Elite MasterCards actually charge similar fees to an American Express card, so you can't blame AMEX for having high fees when even Visa & MasterCard do it now.

 

[iThingsGurl]

With good reason though, the exchange rate is ridiculous. We would probably be charged a fee if the banks said yes on a whim.

That's not just bad but also unfair if they have to charge us according to the exchange rates. Also, does AmEx charge a fee?

 

[macfacts]

The toxic Hellstew is terrific.. Here in Aus I think many people got owned by very slick copies of the bank apps, I wouldn't put any precious data on such an operating system.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=australia+android+bank+malware&t=ipad

I just read the first link in your search link. It says people get malware on Android when they install apps outside of the play store, a fake Adobe flash player. Yeah ....

 

[radus]

the questions is : Who will use Apple pay if nobody buy's ugly much much to expensive iPhones or don't want to buy iPhones because arrogant people forgot their primary supportes ?

 

[kdarling]

The convenience to users is that if you lose your phone, you don't lose your credit card. The number generated is per transaction.

Note that the token account number itself does not change, and can even be safely given away. The reason for the token is so it cannot be used to create a magnetic card nor typed in on the internet to buy something.

(There have actually been dumb magnetic cards that had a token number on their stripe, different from the number printed on the card itself, for the same reason.)

The truly secret value is the per-token key that's provisioned in the Secure Element with the token. It's an unreadable key that is used to generate the transaction specific cryptograms that surround the transaction.

IF you pay with Apple Pay you use your iPhone & fingerprint or an Apple Watch that was unlocked near your phone that had already been authenticated too. Basically the banks know if you purchase via Apple Pay, it is actually you making the purchases.

Yep, there's a very, very good chance that it's you. Of course, it's not an absolute guarantee, since all it really means is that someone with passcode access to your phone is now using it... hopefully you. A fake fingerprint would also work, though unlikely.

The extremely rare downside is that if a thief does get in one of those ways, then the real owner would have a devil of a time proving it was not them making or allowing the purchase. Such already happens to chip and pin users where a thief has shoulder surfed the pin.

I am sure the sticking point has been the fees Apple charge.

Yes. Plus the general purchase data that Apple wants sent back to them, which is information that the banks used to keep to themselves.

Or maybe ANZ actually sat down and worked out for the extra security, it was worth paying the fees Apple was asking...

In longtime contactless places like the UK, contactless payment fraud is only running at about 0.007% of the purchase amount.

That fraud rate is less than 1/20th of the royalty Apple gets in the US per transaction (0.15%). So, as far as contactless fraud goes, it can still be much cheaper for banks to keep things as they are.

Where something like Apple Pay could make a huge difference in fraud, is if it was used for online purchases.

 

[xero9]

Where something like Apple Pay could make a huge difference in fraud, is if it was used for online purchases.

Which it's going to get decimated at this summer when MasterCard (and probably shortly after Visa) launch their "selfie pay" (Identity Check). I'm absolutely positive the banks are going to all over that faster than websites implementing Apple Pay for their checkout pages.

 

[kdarling]

Which it's going to get decimated at this summer when MasterCard (and probably shortly after Visa) launch their "selfie pay" (Identity Check). I'm absolutely positive the banks are going to all over that faster than websites implementing Apple Pay for their checkout pages.

Good point.

And if MC/Visa/etc were smart, they'd do like they did with EMV and agree on a common selfie API so websites would not have to embed code for each type of card.

OTOH, no doubt someone will sell a library to do that if need be.

 

[RedOrchestra]

So yeah: explain that

Son, you need to re-read your cited article ... said article says dick about branding and everything about banks not wanting to give up a single cent of their revenue stream. it's called comprehension, son.

 

[tdale]

This. Nobody uses American Express in Canada, making Apple Pay basically useless. All we need is Interac and it'll work everywhere.

Yep. I heard its also NZ not just Australia, but we are too small to be mentioned.

Now, is this a valid news article? Its one bank, so that makes the market smaller. Amex is hardly used here.No MasterCard, so one bank, and no MasterCard means its a very small release.