Apple Pay Headed Directly to Restaurant Tables With 'PrestoPrime EMV' Terminals

[tmiw]

Because at a lot of US restaurants, especially in the south, they don't even have chip readers but only the outdated magnetic stripe readers. That's why. They need to at least upgrade to EMV. And while they're at it, why not go for wireless POS machines like other countries?

I was explaining why they weren't going with the wireless terminals despite upgrading to EMV.

And why would they want to hang on to outdated technology? swiping has been around for 50+ years and it is very obsolete, besides it makes credit card fraud easier. Even more so if they have to take away the customers card instead of doing the transaction at the table. That's why restaurants in Europe, Canada and Mexico made the investment and switched to the wireless terminals. And I bet buying a few of those is still less costly than buying a tablet style device for each table.

Restaurants elsewhere switched to wireless terminals because they made PIN required for every card purchase, not because they switched to chip. A lot of businesses won't spend money unless they absolutely need to and wired terminals are still less expensive than their wireless counterparts, especially if the former is still a workable option.

No there seems to be an aversion to EMV chip technology in the US, especially in the south, like Texas. Many businesses there already have EMV and even nfc/contactless capable POS terminals but still disable those features and stick to swiping only.

A lot more places take the chip now than they did a few years ago, even in the South. (See the link in my signature.)

Smaller restaurants, and the fancy ones too, would be better of buying just one or two wireless terminals. At least that's what they do in Mexico, Canada and several European countries.

See above.

Yeah. Even in some places where they already got newer terminals, they have both the EMV and contactless turned off and stick to swiping only.

Again, not sure where you're shopping.

And it's not only Canada; they've been doing the same in Mexico for years, which should be an embarrasment for the U.S. considering how uncivilized many americans think Mexico to be.

Mexico is still a predominantly cash based country in my experience. Even at the places that take cards, their use is pretty uncommon. YMMV, however.

 

[lartola]

I was explaining why they weren't going with the wireless terminals despite upgrading to EMV.



Restaurants elsewhere switched to wireless terminals because they made PIN required for every card purchase, not because they switched to chip. A lot of businesses won't spend money unless they absolutely need to and wired terminals are still less expensive than their wireless counterparts, especially if the former is still a workable option.



A lot more places take the chip now than they did a few years ago, even in the South. (See the link in my signature.)



See above.



Again, not sure where you're shopping.



Mexico is still a predominantly cash based country in my experience. Even at the places that take cards, their use is pretty uncommon. YMMV, however.

Not in my experience in the cities, and I live here, only nfc is still pretty uncommon but not chip cards. And certainly not in the fancy restaurants, which clearly you did not visit, everybody pays by credit card at those places. Most businesses in the cities do take credit and debit cards and they all have chip readers. Swiping is extremely rare here, while in the US its still the most frequent way to pay. Furthermore, it's worth to note that Mexico does not do chip and pin for credit cards. Only for debit. For credit cards it's chip and signature just like the USA so no, the restaurants here did not replace the terminals because of the pin, it was to prevent fraud by bringing the transaction to the table instead of taking the card.

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

Oh that's going to fit right in…




Edit: And you can play games? Even less reason for people to have a conversation while sharing a meal.

Edit 2: And I can only imagine servers/waiters are going to get stiffed royally.

Chili's and Red Robin have had similar machines for several years now. I think I saw a kid playing a game on one once. Mostly they get ignored until time to pay, which they are great for! I also like that you get to fill out a survey immediately. Unlike some other comments, I feel like the service has improved and I suspect these surveys are the reason. Oh, and I don't think servers are getting stiffed royally considering I haven't seen my favorite long time servers quitting.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Another product that most restaurants in America are going to have a really hard time justifying. (Notice how it's only the bigger chains that buy the tableside tablets?)

I'm telling you: pay at the table is going to be relatively uncommon in the US compared to elsewhere. Why should most places spend the extra money on even the handheld terminals mentioned above when tip adjust is still possible and PIN isn't mandatory with the chip? Restaurants that want to accept Apple Pay are almost better off doing so via an app like OpenTable, as at least they won't have to buy anything new that way.

(Note: this is based on my experience with chip at US restaurants so far, which admittedly isn't all that many places. My card was still taken away and brought back at nearly every single one, however.)

Hard time justifying?

I'm thinking big chains are going to be shedding waitress/server jobs like crazy. Many have. They HATE paying a living wage. So many of the huge chains have worked hard against the wage hikes for wait staff. Replacing wait staff with a 'box' and have a kitchen staff person just run the food out would appeal to many of them.

But just wait until they are hacked, or stolen. And they still have to have someone wipe the tables down, although anyone that has eaten at a chain restaurant recently knows they don't take that job very seriously at many chains.

But, whatever... I'm sure they will find something to cover the mounting holes with when this 'hot technology' falls out of favor.

 

[tmiw]

Not in my experience in the cities, and I live here, only nfc is still pretty uncommon but not chip cards. And certainly not in the fancy restaurants, which clearly you did not visit, everybody pays by credit card at those places. Most businesses in the cities do take credit and debit cards and they all have chip readers. Swiping is extremely rare here, while in the US its still the most frequent way to pay. Furthermore, it's worth to note that Mexico does not do chip and pin for credit cards. Only for debit. For credit cards it's chip and signature just like the USA so no, the restaurants here did not replace the terminals because of the pin, it was to prevent fraud by bringing the transaction to the table instead of taking the card.

I dunno, I would have expected Puerto Vallarta to have pretty high credit card acceptance considering that it's a tourist area but I still saw a fair number of cash only businesses when I was last there. Taxis were definitely cash only too. This may have changed since I was there, of course.

Hard time justifying?

I'm thinking big chains are going to be shedding waitress/server jobs like crazy. Many have. They HATE paying a living wage. So many of the huge chains have worked hard against the wage hikes for wait staff. Replacing wait staff with a 'box' and have a kitchen staff person just run the food out would appeal to many of them.

But just wait until they are hacked, or stolen. And they still have to have someone wipe the tables down, although anyone that has eaten at a chain restaurant recently knows they don't take that job very seriously at many chains.

But, whatever... I'm sure they will find something to cover the mounting holes with when this 'hot technology' falls out of favor.

The smaller places already have fairly minimal staffing in comparison to the big chains. Much less savings in staffing costs from switching to tablets at those.

Also, it's kinda hard to walk out of the restaurant with one of those things without being seen.

 

[lartola]

I dunno, I would have expected Puerto Vallarta to have pretty high credit card acceptance considering that it's a tourist area but I still saw a fair number of cash only businesses when I was last there. Taxis were definitely cash only too. This may have changed since I was there, of course.



The smaller places already have fairly minimal staffing in comparison to the big chains. Much less savings in staffing costs from switching to tablets at those.

Also, it's kinda hard to walk out of the restaurant with one of those things without being seen.

Puerto Vallarta is a rather small town and aimed at mostly domestic tourism. Go to Cancun or Los Cabos and it's a different story. There are a lot more US and European tourists in those places and therefore less cash only businesses. Go to the big cities such as Mexico City or Monterrey and you will also see more businesses accepting credit cards there. Über is also already available in several mexican cities, though probably not in Vallarta.

 

[aristobrat]

I'm thinking big chains are going to be shedding waitress/server jobs like crazy. Many have. They HATE paying a living wage. So many of the huge chains have worked hard against the wage hikes for wait staff.

I realize this is anecdotal, but I've had a lottttt of friends that worked as waiters during their younger years. Some at big chains, others at locally owned ones...

I don't recall any of them getting "paid" (from their employer) more than the US$2.13/hour minimum wage.

Having said that, none of them struggled for money. They'd often come home with $200-$300 a shift from tips. And then they'd proceed to do young dumb things (IMO) with that money...

To me, that's a living wage...

 

[Foggydog]

There's more to the cost of employing a waitstaff than the hourly wage. There is also training and weekly scheduling.

And workers comp, insurance, matching tax. Those are way more expensive that one employees hourly wage.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Also, it's kinda hard to walk out of the restaurant with one of those things without being seen.

Where there's a will, there's a way...
[doublepost=1489679210][/doublepost]

I realize this is anecdotal, but I've had a lottttt of friends that worked as waiters during their younger years. Some at big chains, others at locally owned ones...

I don't recall any of them getting "paid" (from their employer) more than the US$2.13/hour minimum wage.

Having said that, none of them struggled for money. They'd often come home with $200-$300 a shift from tips. And then they'd proceed to do young dumb things (IMO) with that money...

To me, that's a living wage...

Yes, good for them. Where I grew up, there were restaurants that demanded all the tips, and then gave their servers a 'cut'. One restaurant just took the tips and kept them. Before you say that's mean, bogus, or illegal; illegality is whether you get caught, or someone 'squeals'. One restaurant that 'stole' tips had a hard time after that as they lost staff and customers, yet a different restaurant exposed for doing the same thing saw an increase. Go figure.

My sister was a waitress at a swanky Italian restaurant. She made between $200 and $800 a night, depending on shift length, and what the specials were (and how lubricated the customers were). She loved the job. She bought a car with the money, and was actually their highest rated waitress. Tips did a lot for her. (She told me that if I didn't tip a waitperson, she would kill me. All 90 pounds of her)

Employees shifted from being an integral part of business to a liability sometime in the past 15 years or so. Paying them is hideous and providing safe working conditions and a living wage is seen as theft by far too many. Unions are a threat.

Restaurants will slam workers as hard as they can and still get away with it. Heck, I worked at a restaurant in high school that would ritualistically offer food, or other bennies for people to clock out and keep working. Sometimes hours... Yeah, there will be some restaurants that will grab these things and decimate their waitstaff...

 

[kdarling]

Every time I go to the US, I'm always amazed at how far behind they are with payment systems. I end up swiping my credit card and signing for everything, which just feels so outdated. Everything should be chip and PIN or tap to pay at this point.

Personally I love not having to remember a PIN for each credit card

Requiring only a signature indicates that the user is much more trusted as well.

In countries like the UK, if someone uses your card, YOU are assumed to be at fault because a PIN was required. So even if it was shoulder surfed from you, too bad, so sad. Heck, when a gang stole PINs from PIN terminals, it took years before UK banks believed it even happened. In the meantime, customers were out the money.

In the US, if I say I didn't make a purchase, then I'm believed.

 

[Madmic23]

Personally I love not having to remember a PIN for each credit card

Requiring only a signature indicates that the user is much more trusted as well.

In countries like the UK, if someone uses your card, YOU are assumed to be at fault because a PIN was required. So even if it was shoulder surfed from you, too bad, so sad. Heck, when a gang stole PINs from PIN terminals, it took years before UK banks believed it even happened. In the meantime, customers were out the money.

In the US, if I say I didn't make a purchase, then I'm believed.

Anyone can fake a signature though. And really, I've never had anyone ask me for ID or another sample of my signature to verify that it's me.

As for false transactions, in Canada, if someone steals your card details and PIN (which is possible) you are not on the hook for those transactions. I have a friend that had their card details stolen and someone went on a shopping spree. Before my friend even noticed, his card issuer called him and said they had detected suspicious transactions. They actually told him which ones he didn't make and just asked him to verify. They cancelled his card and sent him a new one right away.

 

[tmiw]

In the US, if I say I didn't make a purchase, then I'm believed.

That's because federal law mandates that. If banks could make cardholders responsible for fraudulent chip and signature transactions, they would.

 

[Mac 128]

I detest having to sign. It's a pointless, time consuming ritual, that only delays my transaction and getting on with my life. Entering a pin is far more efficient, and secure. Those that do check IDs with a signature, only draw the process out even further, and anyone who is involved in committing fraud, is liable to have a fake ID anyway.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

That's because federal law mandates that. If banks could make cardholders responsible for fraudulent chip and signature transactions, they would.

I expect that to change soon. Corporations, and Wall Street, have captured the government to a level unheard of since...

We are all seen as rubes and marks.

Related tangent: My business had a 'merchant account', and accepted credit cards. The rules on those merchant agreements are positively draconian. IF you take a 'bad card', and the credit company had reason to think it was a bad card, but processes it anyway, the merchant is out the money, and likely the product. *POOF* They get slammed twice. Even if the card was bad, and the processor approves it anyway, the merchant is on the hook. We wanted to get into selling over the internet, but that attitude slowed and eventually stopped it. One local shop was out over $30,000 (I know, right) because a huge transaction they did was found to be bogus as the card processor reneged on paying. The card was stolen, and the bank apparently knew about it, but the merchant agreement stated that the decision was final, and the business went out because of it.

Reality sucks.