Apple Pay Holdout Kroger Launches New 'Kroger Pay' Service

[vipergts2207]

Another mobile wallet/payment paradigm that will end up failing just like CurrentC and the others. Unless it’s significantly faster than using a credit card, it’s not going to catch on. Even Apple Pay is only marginally faster than just pulling out my wallet. I rarely use my chosen mobile wallet Apple Pay anyway because it requires knowing whether the store even accepts it in the first place, at which point it’s now more of a hassle than just using a card. Apple Pay needs to be near universal for me to want to use it regularly. For most people pulling out the wallet is second nature and pure muscle memory, so that’s another factor Apple Pay and other inferior mobile payment paradigms have to contend with. I did have it come in very handy one time when I went to the store and forgot to move my wallet to the pants I had put on.

 

[mrow]

It was covered by a few sources... Here’s one:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rcard-mandating-contactless-payment-terminals

People pointing to that Juniper Research thing are the only sources I can find for this. Every other source I can find say this requirement is for Europe only.
[doublepost=1550097293][/doublepost]

Another mobile wallet/payment paradigm that will end up failing just like CurrentC and the others. Unless it’s significantly faster than using a credit card, it’s not going to catch on. Even Apple Pay is only marginally faster than just pulling out my wallet. I rarely use my chosen mobile wallet Apple Pay anyway because it requires knowing whether the store even accepts it in the first place, at which point it’s now more of a hassle than just using a card. Apple Pay needs to be near universal for me to want to use it regularly. For most people pulling out the wallet is second nature and pure muscle memory, so that’s another factor Apple Pay has to contend with. I did have it come in very handy one time when I went to the store and forgot to move my wallet to the pants I had put on.

Trying to use is places and it failing or them saying they don’t support it is the best way to let retailers know there is demand for it and they should enable if. If no one bothers unless it’s explicit retailers will think no one cares.

 

[lederermc]

Safeway implemented Apple Pay last year and there is absolutely no indicator on the payment device. If Kroger did the same then I can see why it had little use.

 

[tmiw]

People pointing to that Juniper Research thing are the only sources I can find for this. Every other source I can find say this requirement is for Europe only.

I just checked out the Visa rules (https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/visa-rules-public.pdf). Section 5.7 indicates the following for contactless acceptance mandates:

Asia Pacific: new devices as of 10/13/2018, all devices as of 4/1/2023.
Central Europe/Middle East: new devices as of 4/13/2019, all devices as of 4/1/2023.
Europe: new devices now, all devices as of 12/31/2019.
Latin America/Canada: new devices as of 10/13/2018, all devices as of 4/1/2023.

No requirement for the US, unfortunately. Maybe they thought that since the hardware's generally there, there's no need to? IMO considering how much merchants dislike Visa/MC here, that might have been a misstep on the networks' part.
[doublepost=1550097745][/doublepost]

Safeway implemented Apple Pay last year and there is absolutely no indicator on the payment device. If Kroger did the same then I can see why it had little use.

They've always showed very tiny green dots at the very top of the display and recently included "tap" on the display. The former likely wasn't enough though.

 

[rikscha]

Bound to be a global success. It’s a great, great idea. Mark my words.

 

[Westside guy]

We used to shop almost exclusively at our local Fred Meyer (which used to be a local chain, but now is part of Kroger). I still go there occasionally for their organic/natural foods, since they've got a good selection - but for the most part I've abandoned them for Winco, which set up a new store in our area about six years ago. Not only are Winco's prices lower on the same goods, but Fred Meyer keeps "reinventing" itself in (apparently) vain attempts to regain the customers it's shedding. I imagine this pathetic attempt at lock-in will fail just like every other reinvention / rebranding / reorganizing has.

 

[digitalexplr]

"Kroger Pay is one of the few mobile wallets that pairs loyalty and payment,"

Um Apple Pay can do this too

Kohls, Walgreens and Hy-Vee do as well. All are using Apple Pay.

 

[joemolomo]

Two clicks on home button versus launching an app, authorizing and showing it to a cashier.
This won't last a year.

You don’t even need to do that, just hold your sleeping iPhone up to a contactless machine, and it shows yeah default card, if you have your thumb/face already on/in-view it will authorise instantly. I can’t remember but I think the wallet auto pops up even when your using your phone, as long as it makes contact with a payment machine

 

[Unity451]

The future of the mobile pay industry is foreshadowed by the cluster that is digital content streaming.

 

[nibfiledotcom]

People pointing to that Juniper Research thing are the only sources I can find for this. Every other source I can find say this requirement is for Europe only.

Good point, and that was a while ago. I looked it up in Visa’s actual documentation, and it seems like the “all acceptance devices” requirement has slipped to April 1, 2023. So the deadline is still there, but it’s further out.

 

[tmiw]

Good point, and that was a while ago. I looked it up in Visa’s actual documentation, and it seems like the “all acceptance devices” requirement has slipped to April 1, 2023. So the deadline is still there, but it’s further out.

IIRC the US is its own region and not part of LAC (Latin America/Canada) so there's still no mandate for the US. Of course, if the US is actually part of LAC then that would be pretty good news.

 

[nibfiledotcom]

No requirement for the US, unfortunately. Maybe they thought that since the hardware's generally there, there's no need to? IMO considering how much merchants dislike Visa/MC here, that might have been a misstep on the networks' part.

Yeah, that could be the case... I might have to dig into this a little deeper... maybe check and see if MasterCard is still setting a deadline in the USA.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Kroger is making money with the use of customer information via the loyalty card. They don't want to give up their power and tracking.

I don't go to Kroger often. When I do, I pay cash. No loyalty tracking for me.

 

[macfacts]

Going the wrong way there Kroger...

Also, if you saw “little interest from customers” with Apple Pay, why would you think they would want to pull out their phone, open the app, wait for it to load, click to open the QR Code, and then have it scan.... versus just tapping their iPhone or Watch? This just screams “we want your data how we want it, not the privacy focused Apple way.”

Fyi Apple does the same data collecting. Apple has every iPhone serial number tied to a user email (with the force activation). Apple data mines it to see where and how often people activate a new device (to determine how often people buy new iPhones).

And this qr code nonsense is a poor user experience due to apple not letting devs use the NFC and thus dumbing down their apps to the lowest common denominator. Not all devs will dumb down their app to use QR codes. There is an android app that is a public transit app (presto) that uses NFC for transit functions andand iOS version is just a glorified web page that can't use NFC.

 

[trusso]

Confucius say, "Man who sticks head in mud unable to sell wares."

 

[redneckitengineer]

As a Kroger shopper in TN, I find this disappointing. I understand they don't want to share profits from merchant fees but as Target learned this is not what people want. Theres also some analytics lost on Apple Pay because of its revolving card numbers. I guess I'll just stick to inserting my card at the reader. No big deal.
[doublepost=1550099855][/doublepost]

Perhaps they discontinued the program "due to little interest by customers" but perhaps that was an excuse to go their own way in the hopes of collecting customer information and maintaining profits. In any case, customers will determine the success or failure of Kroger Pay, and whether or not Kroger finds reason to support Apple Pay as well.

I dunno, because we still have to enter our Kroger loyalty card on the transaction, So even if it’s a different credit card number every time they still know that it’s the same customer.

 

[SDColorado]

Funny, I live in Cincinnati and go to Kroger weekly and have never heard of or seen this "test" and would've definitely used it. Then again the "test" was probably only open to Kroger executives who had already come up with this turd of an idea.

I have never seen that test at King Soopers or City Market (Kroger stores this state) either and we are supposedly one of the two states they are launching Kroger Pay. I think its BS

 

[tmiw]

Yeah, that could be the case... I might have to dig into this a little deeper... maybe check and see if MasterCard is still setting a deadline in the USA.

Per section 7.3 of this MC document:

For purposes of this Rule, a “contactless-enabled” Terminal is any POS Terminal (including any
MPOS Terminal), ATM Terminal, or Bank Branch Terminal with a contactless reader that is
activated and that accepts Cards and Access Devices based on contactless magnetic stripe
technology (“Magnetic Stripe Mode”) and also optionally contactless chip technology (“EMV
Mode”).

Effective 12 October 2018, all newly-deployed POS Terminals must be Dual Interface Hybrid
Terminals that support and enable both EMV contact and EMV Mode contactless payment
functionality. This requirement includes Cardholder-Activated Terminals (CATs), excludes
Mobile POS (MPOS) Terminals, and excludes contactless-only acceptance as described in Rule
4.7 of this manual.

Effective 18 October 2019, all newly-deployed MPOS Terminals must be Dual Interface Hybrid
Terminals that support and enable both EMV contact and EMV Mode contactless payment
functionality.

Effective 1 April 2023, all POS Terminals must be Dual Interface Hybrid Terminals that support
and enable both EMV contact and EMV Mode contactless payment functionality. This
requirement includes CATs and excludes contactless-only acceptance as described in Rule 4.7
of this manual.

Refer to Rules 7.4.1, 7.4.2, 7.5, and 7.6.3 for additional contactless-enabled Terminal
requirements. Refer to Rules 4.4 through 4.7 regarding Contactless Transaction processing.
NOTE: Modifications to this Rule appear in the “Asia/Pacific Region,” “Canada Region,”
“Europe Region,” “Latin America and the Caribbean Region,” “Middle East/Africa Region,”
and “United States Region” sections at the end of this chapter

There's a fair bit of variation in the country specific modifications, though. In particular, this US variation makes me think that there might be no mandate (note the may and not must):

7.3 Contactless Payment Functionality

In the United States Region, the Rule on this subject is modified as follows. All POS Terminals may be Dual Interface Hybrid Terminals that support and enable both EMV contact and EMV Mode contactless payment functionality. A contactless-enabled Terminal may support Magnetic Stripe Mode contactless payment functionality.

 

[swiftaw]

Kohls, Walgreens and Hy-Vee do as well. All are using Apple Pay.

Hy-vee does? I know they recently allowed Apple Pay but didn't know it also supported Fuel Savers. Is it like Walgreens, where you first scan your rewards card, then your credit card?

 

[johnnygee]

When did Kroger test contactless payments? 2007? This company is ridiculous.

 

[mcalict]

As a Kroger shopper in TN, I find this disappointing. I understand they don't want to share profits from merchant fees but as Target learned this is not what people want.
[doublepost=1550099855][/doublepost]

I dunno, because we still have to enter our Kroger loyalty card on the transaction, So even if it’s a different credit card number every time they still know that it’s the same customer.

Ditto. I'm in TN and shop my local Krogers a couple times a week. Have been waiting since my iPhone 6 for Kroger to get on board. The test obviously wasn't here because I'd have given their system a workout. Lack of interest my foot! I used ApplePay more in 3 days during a trip into Canada than in 6-months here in the States. The retailers here just don't get it. I'll keep shopping there but like others, I predict they'll learn the hard way and cave within 2 years.

 

[Ohples]

So glad there are not anymore Kroger stores in North Carolina.....they could not make here so they claimed...

I also wonder if there acquisition of Harris Teeter had anything to do with it.

 

[vipergts2207]

Kroger is making money with the use of customer information via the loyalty card. They don't want to give up their power and tracking.

I don't go to Kroger often. When I do, I pay cash. No loyalty tracking for me.

I don't take a lax stance on privacy, but I couldn't care less if a grocery store knows what kind of cereal and cheese I buy. What nefarious thing are they going to do, stock more of the stuff I buy? Send me coupons in the mail for stuff I actually purchase? What if someone hacks their system? Oh no, a stranger might know I usually buy chicken breast at the grocery store. I don't see the concern with grocery store loyalty programs.

 

[Icaras]

Check out my kewl QR code bruh!!

 

[genovelle]

"Kroger Pay is one of the few mobile wallets that pairs loyalty and payment,"

Um Apple Pay can do this too

And beautifully. I love the Walgreens implementation.
[doublepost=1550102393][/doublepost]

I don't take a lax stance on privacy, but I couldn't care less if a grocery store knows what kind of cereal and cheese I buy. What nefarious thing are they going to do, stock more of the stuff I buy? Send me coupons in the mail for stuff I actually purchase? What if someone hacks their system? Oh no, a stranger might know I usually buy chicken breast at the grocery store. I don't see the concern with grocery store loyalty programs.

Target’s massive hack a few years back that exposed millions of credit cards. The problem is not the loyalty program. It’s handing yet another company with an unknown level of security commitment your credit card or debit card info. Not happening over here
[doublepost=1550102601][/doublepost]

Ditto. I'm in TN and shop my local Krogers a couple times a week. Have been waiting since my iPhone 6 for Kroger to get on board. The test obviously wasn't here because I'd have given their system a workout. Lack of interest my foot! I used ApplePay more in 3 days during a trip into Canada than in 6-months here in the States. The retailers here just don't get it. I'll keep shopping there but like others, I predict they'll learn the hard way and cave within 2 years.

I used mine at a restaurant this week and the girl at the counter was shocked. She said she had been telling people that asked if they took AP and she told them no. She had no idea.