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Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany

docfred said:
As I pay most of my bills with my Amex contactless ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Believe it or not, Apple Pay won't change your life. It's 80% fan-hype and 20% gathered comfort.
Click to expand...

And I think it is a very individual way to do it and everybody has different emotions in relations with applepay.

For me and many others, it will have a strong impact on everyday. And give us the feeling of digitalism in this country, which is so poor with those things, if you compare it with other countries.
 
docfred said:
As I pay most of my bills with my Amex contactless at the moment ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Believe it or not, Apple Pay won't change your life. It's 80% fan-hype and 20% gathered comfort.
Click to expand...

Apple Pay won't change our lives. But it will move cashless payments in the center of all customers. I hope that more customers rethink about how the rural borough benefits from this technology
There is not a big difference of paying by card oder phone/watch. But Apple Pay (G-Pay, mobiles Bezahlen etc.) will conduce that more retailers/bar etc will offer "card" payment 😉

Thats why I want the launch asap. Its so hard if you are visiting other countries, do not need a single penny and then coming back to good OLD germany and the first stop is the atm 😡
 
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therealtibu said:
Apple Pay won't change our lives. But it will move cashless payments in the center of all customers. I hope that more customers rethink about how the rural borough benefits from this technology
There is not a big difference of paying by card oder phone/watch. But Apple Pay (G-Pay, mobiles Bezahlen etc.) will conduce that more retailers/bar etc will offer "card" payment 😉

Thats why I want the launch asap. Its so hard if you are visiting other countries, do not need a single penny and then coming back to good OLD germany and the first stop is the atm 😡
Click to expand...

Great statement. You are right.

I hope tomorrow will be the day.

I just want to enjoy to go to every single Marchand and ask if they have applepay and enjoy their fsces
 
Praeceptor said:
For me and many others, it will have a strong impact on everyday.
Click to expand...
for a few weeks and then it will be just another way of paying 🙂

As not every shop accepts NFC and if not every shop accepts MC/Visa or any card at all, you will have to carry around your wallet in any way if you want to be flexible. that's just a fact...

see yesterday, I was with my kids for the first time in a huge indoor playground and climbing hall. At the entrance, they accept cards. But only GiroCards. And not wireless. Apple Pay? No chance. In the hall there are vending machines for beverages and ice cream, there are small cafes for coffee and cake and a bigger restaurant for lunch (Burgers, Fries, Chicken Wings, etc.) and in the hall they only take cash.

So, what to do? Turn around and leave? Or carry around your wallet with physical cards and some cash? That's the way it is. Everywhere in the world, at least in question of carrying around your physical cards. Perhaps except sweden.

Apple Pay will be your convenient way of paying. But not the only way and you will take your wallet with you if you don't want to get in some awkward situation.
[doublepost=1541930824][/doublepost]
Praeceptor said:
I just want to enjoy to go to every single Marchand and ask if they have applepay and enjoy their fsces
Click to expand...
Don't have to ask about Apple Pay. Just take your phone and pay with it at the terminal. Without asking 😉
 
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docfred said:
for a few weeks and then it will be just another way of paying 🙂

As not every shop accepts NFC and if not every shop accepts MC/Visa or any card at all, you will have to carry around your wallet in any way if you want to be flexible. that's just a fact...

see yesterday, I was with my kids for the first time in a huge indoor playground and climbing hall. At the entrance, they accept cards. But only GiroCards. And not wireless. Apple Pay? No chance. In the hall there are vending machines for beverages and ice cream, there are small cafes for coffee and cake and a bigger restaurant for lunch (Burgers, Fries, Chicken Wings, etc.) and in the hall they only take cash.

So, what to do? Turn around and leave? Or carry around your wallet with physical cards and some cash? That's the way it is. Everywhere in the world, at least in question of carrying around your physical cards. Perhaps except sweden.

Apple Pay will be your convenient way of paying. But not the only way and you will take your wallet with you if you don't want to get in some awkward situation.
Click to expand...

Its just a matter of time. We now reached a point where most customers assume cashless payments. It started at gas stations. Then it reaches the grocery stores. Today there is a high demand for the public transport/taxi and bars.

The next step are these locations you described. I am using AP since 10/2017 with a French N26 card. At the beginning I carried the card always in my pocket. But now if I need to jump in the Gas Station or a Rewe/Aldi/Lidl is only need my watch. These big chains doing a very good job.
But I agree, small retailers and event center like you mentioned are far behind. supposedly cause of the consulting by their bank manager (shoutout to my big S where every single transaction is priced by 10 cents + small percentage, VR-Pay is doing a great job with their contracts!)

I have to mentioned that I am avoiding small retailers because of the not existing reliability of paying cashless. Maybe it would help them to get some customers back 😉
 
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Never thought I’ll ever say this but I have to agree 100 % on this with docfred.

I have been using Apple Pay a lot with my sberbank in Russia and in Germany with bunq and it is fun at first and you are all hyped but after a couple of weeks it’s just another way to pay.

And like he said you will have to carry at least one card around as a backup. There have been lots of situation where nfc was supported but the device was broken. Or go to some new location and they don’t offer nfc or only take girocards. And especially if you leave your area and go to new places and cities you will always have to take a card with you.

The greatest benefit I see in Apple Pay is being able to make safe transactions without having to hand over your card and risk that your informations are going to get stolen. Happened to me twice and this is no fun. But I always have to carry a backup card.
 
docfred said:
So, what to do? Turn around and leave? Or carry around your wallet with physical cards and some cash? That's the way it is. Everywhere in the world, at least in question of carrying around your physical cards. Perhaps except sweden.

Apple Pay will be your convenient way of paying. But not the only way and you will take your wallet with you if you don't want to get in some awkward situation.
[doublepost=1541930824][/doublepost]
Don't have to ask about Apple Pay. Just take your phone and pay with it at the terminal. Without asking 😉
Click to expand...


it won't work in Sweden. The percentage of paying contactless is very low in Sweden.

The first country I got a 100% of paying contactless was Poland 3 weeks ago
 
if you got somewhere, where there you haven't been before it's probably wise to take a card or cash with you. however on my day-to-day routine, I know exactly where I can pay with Apple Pay and if I need my wallet or not. so I leave my wallet at home for all of the regular weeks.
or when being out biking, I've always left my wallet at home. previously I hadn't a chance to buy sth if needed – now it feels good to know I have Apple Pay with me and it's possible to get something to drink at the next gas station or supermarket.

... that definitely makes a difference.
 
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therealtibu said:
Its just a matter of time. We now reached a point where most customers assume cashless payments. It started at gas stations. Then it reaches the grocery stores. Today there is a high demand for the public transport/taxi and bars.

The next step are these locations you described. I am using AP since 10/2017 with a French N26 card. At the beginning I carried the card always in my pocket. But now if I need to jump in the Gas Station or a Rewe/Aldi/Lidl is only need my watch. These big chains doing a very good job.
But I agree, small retailers and event center like you mentioned are far behind. supposedly cause of the consulting by their bank manager (shoutout to my big S where every single transaction is priced by 10 cents + small percentage, VR-Pay is doing a great job with their contracts!)

I have to mentioned that I am avoiding small retailers because of the not existing reliability of paying cashless. Maybe it would help them to get some customers back 😉
Click to expand...
you're right and that is my point too. everywhere I'm just saying "mit karte bitte" and if they respond, that they don't take cards, my answer always is "oh, dann wird's aber zeit, weiß gar nicht, ob ich bargeld dabei habe...". just to put pressure in the situation. and there are only two shops in my city that I visit regularly that don't take cards at the moment. and who is taking cards, takes NFC, MC/Visa and many Amex.

regarding your "shoutout": that's still standard on the market. see market leader FirstData (an US company). And the VR are on a good way, but if you exceed the included budget, it quickly gets expensive. especially for small companies.

see here: https://www.vr-bank-ehh.de/firmenku...enzahlung/kartenterminal-komplettloesung.html

take the xl package: 94,90€ fixed for 12.000€ sales seem pretty cheap, don't they? but if you get passed that point, you pay 4,90 for every 250€ additional sales.

it's not that easy 😉
 
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docfred said:
you're right and that is my point too. everywhere I'm just saying "mit karte bitte" and if they respond, that they don't take cards, my answer always is "oh, dann wird's aber zeit, weiß gar nicht, ob ich bargeld dabei habe...". just to put pressure in the situation. and there are only two shops in my city that I visit regularly that don't take cards at the moment. and who is taking cards, takes NFC, MC/Visa and many Amex.

regarding your "shoutout": that's still standard on the market. see market leader FirstData (an US company). And the VR are on a good way, but if you exceed the included budget, it quickly gets expensive. especially for small companies.

see here: https://www.vr-bank-ehh.de/firmenku...enzahlung/kartenterminal-komplettloesung.html

take the xl package: 94,90€ fixed for 12.000€ sales seem pretty cheap, don't they? but if you get passed that point, you pay 4,90 for every 250€ additional sales.

it's not that easy 😉
Click to expand...



Maybe its the standard. But i cannot understand why the retailers deny card payment. Yes, they have to pay fees. And yes, the always could be lower but what about the „impulskäufe“?

Special situation: Bars with selling alcoholic drink and cash only acceptance. Drunken people and contactless payment must be a money printing press. They only explainment i got is to evade taxes.

I claim that if you are a retailer and offer card payment your profit will gain. Even if you have to pay „high fees“. Especially if you see the costs for the cash treatment at the local banks
 
docfred said:
you're right and that is my point too. everywhere I'm just saying "mit karte bitte" and if they respond, that they don't take cards, my answer always is "oh, dann wird's aber zeit, weiß gar nicht, ob ich bargeld dabei habe...". just to put pressure in the situation. and there are only two shops in my city that I visit regularly that don't take cards at the moment. and who is taking cards, takes NFC, MC/Visa and many Amex.

regarding your "shoutout": that's still standard on the market. see market leader FirstData (an US company). And the VR are on a good way, but if you exceed the included budget, it quickly gets expensive. especially for small companies.

see here: https://www.vr-bank-ehh.de/firmenku...enzahlung/kartenterminal-komplettloesung.html

take the xl package: 94,90€ fixed for 12.000€ sales seem pretty cheap, don't they? but if you get passed that point, you pay 4,90 for every 250€ additional sales.

it's not that easy 😉
Click to expand...

What Happens then if they don’t accept cards and you don’t have money with you? How do you solve the problem?
 
Paying contactless with a card or an iPhone may be more or less the same. But paying with the Apple Watch is the real big thing for me. You don’t even have to get your phone or card out of your pocket.
 
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therealtibu said:
it won't work in Sweden. The percentage of paying contactless is very low in Sweden.

The first country I got a 100% of paying contactless was Poland 3 weeks ago
Click to expand...
well then, I don't know what's the fuzz is all about... in Germany nearly 75% of the card terminals are NFC capable and have it activated. more than in the US.

therealtibu said:
Maybe its the standard. But i cannot understand why the retailers deny card payment. Yes, they have to pay fees. And yes, the always could be lower but what about the „impulskäufe“?

Special situation: Bars with selling alcoholic drink and cash only acceptance. Drunken people and contactless payment must be a money printing press. They only explainment i got is to evade taxes.

I claim that if you are a retailer and offer card payment your profit will gain. Even if you have to pay „high fees“. Especially if you see the costs for the cash treatment at the local banks
Click to expand...
this question is something that merchants and bartenders have to discuss and answer by themselves. I don't think that the market pressure in this "scenes" is high enough that they have to fear something if they don't accept cards, if they don't run their business at a tourist hotspot.

Praeceptor said:
What Happens then if they don’t accept cards and you don’t have money with you? How do you solve the problem?
Click to expand...
I go away. But this never happend. I know where I'm buying something and where I can pay with card. Situation in unknown places like the climbing hall yesterday is that I withdraw an estimated amount of money. My kids don't care about how the entrance or food is being paid. they just want to have fun and so I'm doing what is necessary that they have a good time as promised. so
[doublepost=1541935201][/doublepost]
MacFinnley said:
Paying contactless with a card or an iPhone may be more or less the same. But paying with the Apple Watch is the real big thing for me. You don’t even have to get your phone or card out of your pocket.
Click to expand...
In the winter, you will pay with your phone. not your watch. Pulling back pullover and jacket to get to the button and keeping back the clothes to pay with it..... pulling your phone out of the pocket is the much faster and smarter way 😉

but in summer months, you are right.

at least that is my experience.
 
That thing with those fees. I worked 3 years for a big retailer for textiles in Germany. They have about 50 Stores in Germany and they are big cause the smallest is about 6000 square meters.

In this time i had to do a lot with payment solutions, we implemented paperless signature pads and also dealed with ingenico as payment partner for new terminals, integrating paperless signature solution inside the Terminal and also with fees...

The management wanted to have more payment with terminals, Cards because you have also to pay for cash services.

The last thing i‘ve done there was to deal for Credit Card fees. MasterCard was cheaper than VISA, AMEX wasn‘t a option for the management.

If i remember correctly:

Visa 0,87% of the amount
MC 0,56% of the amount
Giro with PIN 0,4%
Giro with ELV 0,1%

We had a 98% ELV guarantee but recognized that the amount of payments done with Visa and MasterCard gets higher. So i remember, that the managemet asked for a new deal and ingenico wasn‘t against a new contract.

For this, i don‘t know, why people won‘t ask bigger payment solutions like Ingenico or telecash, and ask they‘re local S or VR with that higher % and additional fixed transaction fees
 
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After the Tweet by Matthias Petrat, a few more people have mentioned new T&C for Amex cards in Germany. I didn't get an email for that either and can't find the new ones as PDF/page anywhere on the net. Anyone have a hint?
 
ms-t said:
The management wanted to have more payment with terminals, Cards because you have also to pay for cash services.
Click to expand...

that's exactly the thing why I don't get that not everybody accepts cards.
yes there a fees with cards, but with cash, too.

I once had an interesting conversation with an owner of an café, for him cash was the most expensive payment option including all risks and circumstances like counterfeit money, getting robbed, employees that can't count the exchange correctly, ... he said it's a rare day if the amount in the register is the same as in the books.
 
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sir-hd said:
After the Tweet by Matthias Petrat, a few more people have mentioned new T&C for Amex cards in Germany. I didn't get an email for that either and can't find the new ones as PDF/page anywhere on the net. Anyone have a hint?
Click to expand...

I got the mail but T&C are not showing up for my Platinum.
 
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If you got the email, then the terms and conditions must be attached as a .pdf, right?

When searching on the Amex website, the latest versions I get are from May 2017 or April 2018...

Oh, and no one mentioned Apple Wallet 😉
 
ms-t said:
For this, i don‘t know, why people won‘t ask bigger payment solutions like Ingenico or telecash, and ask they‘re local S or VR with that higher % and additional fixed transaction fees
Click to expand...
Because for small and mid sized businesses FirstData etc are much more expensive than offerings of their normal bank.

You have to be certain size, that you can negotiate your conditions.

Standard Terms of FirstData (TeleCash) are something like 10ct/tx. If the payment is authorised or not. Even the auth-request costs. And then there come the additional fees and costs of the card payment itself.
Costs for the terminal not included.
 
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