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Apple Pay Launches in Australia for American Express Cardholders

Lancer said:
Woolworth here is the 2nd biggest supermarket in the country, Kmart is one of the biggest department stores, they have little to do with the US and UK versions.
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I regret to report that Woolworths UK ceased to exist a few years ago.
 
laudern said:
Lol I'm the exact opposite. I worry about constantly misplacing my cards. I barely, if ever, use a wallet. Sometimes the cards are left in the car, at home, wife's bag. Whereas my phone is always on me and I can feel if is not on me. I dropped a card in the street and didn't know it. I've never done that with my phone.

Btw, I've had the NFC chip on my phone for 1.5years and it is as solid as a rock on my phone. It is not a small thin "sticker". You need to actually see one before passing judgement.

Also you can get it replaced free of charge whenever you request.
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Sounds very insecure hence why cards and stickers only have a limit of £30 in the Uk. However the limit is soon to be removed when authentication is used, like a fingerprint. How Are they proposing to deal with that when you use an nfc sticker?

Personally there is absolutely no way I would stick anything on my iPhone. Especially when there is a chip inside it that does exactly the same thing. I also have 5 cards (joint, company, debit and 2x credit) in Apple Pay, does this mean I need to have 5 stickers?!
 
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jonatron said:
Sounds very insecure hence why cards and stickers only have a limit of £30 in the Uk. However the limit is soon to be removed when authentication is used, like a fingerprint. How Are they proposing to deal with that when you use an nfc sticker?

Personally there is absolutely no way I would stick anything on my iPhone. Especially when there is a chip inside it that does exactly the same thing.
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The limit has already been removed for updated terminals. Unfortunately it's not like the increase from 20 to 30 which is happening across the board though.
 
jonatron said:
Sounds very insecure hence why cards and stickers only have a limit of £30. In the Uk the limit is soon to be removed when authentication is used, like a fingerprint. How Are they proposing to deal with that when you use an nfc sticker?
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appledefenceforce said:
It's a very different situation in Australia whereby the big 4 banks are very much in tune with each other in terms of strategies. They will not budge. Plus I don't think there's that much demand from consumers except for people on here because as stated by many people, contactless payment has been in place for so long and people have already been using it without any issues. Heck the new NFC card that I got works so fast that I seriously doubt the outdated NFC chip on the iPhone can be any faster.

Also it's logical for the banks not to budge because the transaction fee in Australia is not as high as other places like the US. The banks have no incentive to give that share to Apple. I think it's Apple's fault to want to double dip from both banks (transaction fees) and consumers (buying new iPhone).
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I can certainly understand your points so it's going to be interesting to see what happens.

I personally think payment methods like this will be ubiquitous in the future and it is just a matter of time before this happens.
 
jonatron said:
Sounds very insecure hence why cards and stickers only have a limit of £30 in the Uk. However the limit is soon to be removed when authentication is used, like a fingerprint. How Are they proposing to deal with that when you use an nfc sticker?

Personally there is absolutely no way I would stick anything on my iPhone. Especially when there is a chip inside it that does exactly the same thing. I also have 5 cards (joint, company, debit and 2x credit) in Apple Pay, does this mean I need to have 5 stickers?!
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Ok. Then don't. This technology has enabled people in Australia to use NFC payments since 2012 with the biggest bank in Australia. If it's not for you, then again don't use it.
 
jonatron said:
Sounds very insecure hence why cards and stickers only have a limit of £30 in the Uk. However the limit is soon to be removed when authentication is used, like a fingerprint. How Are they proposing to deal with that when you use an nfc sticker?
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Deal with what exactly? There is no problem like that in Australia.

jonatron said:
Personally there is absolutely no way I would stick anything on my iPhone. Especially when there is a chip inside it that does exactly the same thing. I also have 5 cards (joint, company, debit and 2x credit) in Apple Pay, does this mean I need to have 5 stickers?!
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Actually the one chip is linked to all of your accounts. So you can change the account the chip is linked to in real time, instantly using the bank's app. So yes, one chip does all of your accounts. Very convenient.
 
appledefenceforce said:
Ok. Then don't. This technology has enabled people in Australia to use NFC payments since 2012 with the biggest bank in Australia. If it's not for you, then again don't use it.
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You have exactly hit the nail on the head here. People behave in different ways and having a choice of payments to consumers is key this why I stared my sentence with 'personally'. We have exactly the same system here in the uk with nfc stickers and have done for years (albeit not very successful). This is nothing new. I'm not saying get rid of them but Apple Pay is an arguably better solution for a lot of people. Why restrict choice? That doesn't make any sense.
 
Ok so you can go into a retailer and pay for a laptop say with your nfc sticker? That's pretty cool to be fair, I always thought the limit was $100 Aus.

For many consumers the one sticker for one provider is pretty inconvenient as I use 4 different providers in Apple Pay. So yes for you it's pretty convenient but not for many others. This is all about giving consumers a choice of payment methods. Not restricting them. So this isn't really just about Apple Pay, as the same will be true of android once their payment system is launched. At that time the banks will inevitably be forced to respond to consumer demand. As soon as one bank caves the rest will have to follow.
 
jonatron said:
Ok so you can go into a retailer and pay for a laptop say with your nfc sticker? That's pretty cool to be fair, I always thought the limit was $100 Aus.

For many consumers the one sticker for one provider is pretty inconvenient as I use 4 different providers in Apple Pay. So yes for you it's pretty convenient but not for many others. This is all about giving consumers a choice of payment methods. Not restricting them. So this isn't really just about Apple Pay, as the same will be true of android once their payment system is launched. At that time the banks will inevitably be forced to respond to consumer demand. As soon as one bank caves the rest will have to follow.
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There absolutely should be limits on NFC transactions without a fingerprint or PIN authentication. I wouldn't even go as far as letting it be $100. The limit for contact-less without PIN or fingerprint authentication should be $20 at the most, which has me worried in the states, since HSBC cardholders can use tap to pay on their cards.
 
avanpelt said:
ApplePay is infinitely more useful in Australia, Canada, and the UK when cards are loaded into the iPhone than it is here in the U.S. I have every single Amex and Visa card I own linked to ApplePay and almost nowhere to use ApplePay except for fast food joints. And Apple's big news is that Dominos, KFC, Chili's and Cinnabon will be supporting ApplePay soon. Great...even more places to use the technology that my waistline doesn't need.
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There's also Sprouts, Whole Foods, Macy's, Walgreens, & Rite Aid, tons of local Organic Markets, Best Buy, Pep Boys, Kohl's (In App, In Store, Store Card), JC Penney's and BJ's card coming soon, In app, there is Uber, Etsy, Houzz, Chairish, Fandango, Target, Delta, Jet Blue, PriceLine (Hotels), Hotels Tonight, RadPad, innumerable Dentist, Doctor and Auto Mechanics. I recommend you check out the PayFinders app. And of course, Panera, Eat24, Foodler, ChowNow locations and Starbucks which fall into your fast food joints.

Chili's being a sit-down restaurant is one of the most interesting cases.

So, IMO, the "except for fast food joints" is a little disingenuous. Yes you may have to do a little bit extra work to get the highest security for your credit cards, IMO denying the hackers a fertile ground of MagStripe transactions is worth that extra work. The latest breach was practically every SPG hotel POS.
 
Jeff Meredith said:
There's also Sprouts, Whole Foods, Macy's, Walgreens, & Rite Aid, tons of local Organic Markets, Best Buy, Pep Boys, Kohl's (In App, In Store, Store Card), JC Penney's and BJ's card coming soon, In app, there is Uber, Etsy, Houzz, Chairish, Fandango, Target, Delta, Jet Blue, PriceLine (Hotels), Hotels Tonight, RadPad, innumerable Dentist, Doctor and Auto Mechanics. I recommend you check out the PayFinders app. And of course, Panera, Eat24, Foodler, ChowNow locations and Starbucks which fall into your fast food joints.

Chili's being a sit-down restaurant is one of the most interesting cases.

So, IMO, the "except for fast food joints" is a little disingenuous. Yes you may have to do a little bit extra work to get the highest security for your credit cards, IMO denying the hackers a fertile ground of MagStripe transactions is worth that extra work. The latest breach was practically every SPG hotel POS.
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A lot of those places aren't exactly often shopped by people. Even in frequent spending categories there might not be much of a choice; in some parts of the country the only real grocery options are Walmart and maybe either Kroger or Safeway, for instance--all of which have no plans to enable NFC any time soon, if ever.

Not to say that it hasn't gotten better from a year ago, but overall acceptance in the US is still very poor and will likely be for some time.
 
sladey said:
Background to card payments in Australia...

CONTACTLESS PAYMENT: Has been up and running for 5 years already by simply tapping your credit/debit card on the reader at almost every retailer, or more recently your phone with NFC chip sticker on the back. Apple Pay is not a revolution in Australia, its a "who cares" moment. So instead of tapping your phone or card, you tap your phone or watch. Whoop-de-doo!!!

BANKS: there are four main banks in Australia who dominate banking. They take 82 cents per $100 card payment and they are unwilling to make a deal with Apple to hand over 15 cents when the contactless system that exists is in use everyday by nearly every Australian with a bank account. What's in it for the banks to do a deal with Apple? Nothing except a loss of profit.

AMEX: in Australia has in the past charged retailers EXCESSIVE fees for accepting payments. To share the love, retailers have in the past either decided not to accept Amex or charged customers additional fees on top of their purchase cost.

As a result many many Australians do not now and never will use Amex as they are viewed as overcharging scumbags. Some retailers, presumably in order top pick up the tourist dollar from overseas visitors, now accept Amex but for many Australians Amex carries a lot of negative baggage.

Amex has tried to expand its foothold in Australia by:
- reducing its fees slightly to retailers, although their reputation is ingrained in the Australian psyche and some retailers still charge higher fees for using Amex because the public expects them too.
- introducing co-branded Amex cards with large retailers like David Jones. These will work with Apple Pay as they are genuine Amex cards
- introducing co-branded Amex cards with the four banks (although these are usually supplementary cards to a Visa or Mastercard account with those banks). These are the bulk of Amex cards and WILL NOT WORK with Apple Pay because the banks will not give up their lucrative fees.
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The Banks will pay Apple, because NFC "Pay Wave" is costing them heaps in fraud. Apple Pay is a lot safer for the Banks, will greatly reduce fraud thus saving a lot more than Apples Transaction fee, which I guess they are negotiating.
 
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Ewobminer said:
The Banks will pay Apple, because NFC "Pay Wave" is costing them heaps in fraud. Apple Pay is a lot safer for the Banks, will greatly reduce fraud thus saving a lot more than Apples Transaction fee, which I guess they are negotiating.
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Adding NFC capability to their existing Android apps would also do the same thing and allow them to spend exactly $0. And if the majority of their customers are Android users, possibly more cost-effective than giving money to Apple.
 
Ewobminer said:
The Banks will pay Apple, because NFC "Pay Wave" is costing them heaps in fraud. Apple Pay is a lot safer for the Banks, will greatly reduce fraud thus saving a lot more than Apples Transaction fee, which I guess they are negotiating.
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In longtime contactless places like the UK, contactless payment fraud is only running at about 0.007% of the purchase amount. (Despite media attempts to make it sound worse that it is, Australian banks have also stated that tap and go fraud remains low.)

That fraud rate is less than 1/20th of what Apple gets in the US per transaction (0.15%). So as far as contactless fraud goes, it's still much cheaper for banks to keep things as they are.

Where something like Apple Pay could make a huge difference in fraud, is if it was used for online purchases.
 
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Ewobminer said:
The Banks will pay Apple, because NFC "Pay Wave" is costing them heaps in fraud. Apple Pay is a lot safer for the Banks, will greatly reduce fraud thus saving a lot more than Apples Transaction fee, which I guess they are negotiating.
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Total nonsense, contactless fraud rates are extremely low. Orders of magnitude lower than Apple's charge. Remember, contactless cards still can't be cloned (they can be pre-played in MSD mode, but even that's a tough challenge that requires knowing a vulnerable terminal and getting a chance at the card).

Apple's selling point to banks is the lower fraud rate compared to magstripe, not contactless. Also, consumer good will. Thus, a tough sell in chip countries...
 
Ewobminer said:
The Banks will pay Apple, because NFC "Pay Wave" is costing them heaps in fraud. Apple Pay is a lot safer for the Banks, will greatly reduce fraud thus saving a lot more than Apples Transaction fee, which I guess they are negotiating.
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Nonsense, don't spew information that is neither the truth nor is it factually correct, to try and paint apple like they are doing something good for humanity (lol)
 
We've already seen that Apple will accept less when needed (like in the UK). It sounds like Australian banks are balking for much the same reason that some US retailers did: loss of control over the payment process. They'd rather people use the Westpac or Commonwealth Bank app to pay rather than something that doesn't show their brand front and center, much like how US retailers feel that people should pay through CurrentC or some other app. By that logic, not even Apple accepting $0 per transaction would be enough to sway them.

We'll see though.
 
Well I am loving it. Wallet sat in the pocket for most transactions - petrol, bottle shop, groceries - the list goes on. Initially had some issues paying with the watch but I think that might have been user error rather than system error. Any terminal that accepts Amex tap and go seems to accept the watch for payment.
 
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