CAn someone explain the excitement about these news? I am not trolling, I really want to understand why it is exciting. 90% of creditcards already allows tap&pay, and now Apple pay is available thorugh one bank and one chain of unmanned gas statations. For all I understand, Apple pay is solving a problem that does not exist, with a solution that is slower and more complicated for the user. So what am I missing?
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Apple Pay Launches in Denmark, Finland, Sweden, and UAE
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Banks also charge stores to bring in their money in cash. Big stores have to hire a security company anyway to carry away their cash safely - or can you imagine Aldi sending some dude to a bank at the end of the day with a couple of hundred thousands Euros? I can't seem to find current numbers but for Deutsche Bank app. 45% of what they made a couple of years ago was from private customers. Obviously that involves a lot of different services. But one chunk must be card payments - especially because unlike in Switzerland we don't pay for our accounts or cards. Some small banks started trying to charge a couple of Euros a year for a bank account but a lot of customers are leaving because of it. I for myself have been with five different banks (still am a customer with four) so far and have never paid anything neither for an account or a card (neither yearly nor in fees for paying or withdrawing). So the only way my banks have made money with me - and I know this is true for almost everyone I know is through the fees they get from the stores where I use my card. And as I said, I can see how German banks don't want to give up a huge chunk of that money for a chip they provided in a debit/credit card since almost two years by now.
Curious American here. What about a driver's license/ID? Do you forgo the wallet and just carry that with your phone?
If you live in a bigger city in Europe you don't need to drive really anywhere (and who gets ever stopped for a drivers license anyway?). What for would you need an ID? I know its technically required to carry one around with you but I have never heard of anyone getting checked... If you look older than 16 or 18 then you also don't need it to buy beer/go to a bar. I am in my mid 20s and the last time I have been checked in Europe for an ID is at least 4 years ago...
1 - It’s more secure than using a credit/debit card as Apple Pay generates a random card number for every transaction.
2 - I believe most tap & pay cards are capped at low sums.
3 - I personally do not believe it is either slower or more confusing.
4 - It’s one step closer to a world where I no longer need to carry a wallet.
Contactless cards usually have daily limits. Depending on your bank, you can't spend more than a certain amount. And that is perfectly understandable because when you lose the card, you don't want to be the sponsor of the day for a human parasite. Biometrically secured smartphones are decent solutions. Think of them as a chip and pin without pin. That daily limit can easily be lifted off.
For example, after activating Apple Pay on my phone, I returned my contactless cards and got the regular chip and pin instead. Faster than tap & pay? No! Faster than chip & pin? By far! More secure than both? Yes.
Alternative for those banks? A credit card with fingerprint sensor built in.
Interesting. It gets used more in the US. You have to have it when you drive as it is an extra ticket if you get stopped by police for another infraction. Also, drinking age is 21 (I know, dumb) and places request ID more frequently (some liquor stores card everyone as a policy so they do not risk their license to sell).
Where did you use it? I was looking for somewhere to try it out, doubt anyone working on the retail side will have been trained on how to use it - the don’t even understand the contactless cards....
Yeah I know. I travel to MA for work from time to time and am always very upset by everything there. Not only do they not accept foreign IDs, they also don't accept IDs from certain states if you look below a certain age. Legally they have to accept different state IDs when you are 25 and older but until then it's MA ID or passport. When I first came to the US I was actually very disappointed to have so much freedom being taken away from me in 'the country of freedom'...
Apple could easily vet NFC apps just like they do everything else.
Blame Apple for wanting money for doing absolutely nothing during a contactless transaction. At least other players during a purchase earn the percentage they make. Apple gets money for allowing us to access our own bank cards.
A common misconception, but close
A token account number is assigned when you register a card, but it does not change.
What changes with each transaction are other cyphers intended to validate that particular purchase... which is exactly the same as when a chip card is used.
That's because Apple / Samsung-NFC / Android Pay are simply standard emulations of a contactless card.
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Umm, iPhone 7 shipped with iOS 10, and NFCKit wasn't introduced until iOS 11. In addition, I really wouldn't call the current iOS 11 NFCKit open even though now can do at least something besides Apple Pay.
Apple could easily vet NFC apps just like they do everything else.
Blame Apple for wanting money for doing absolutely nothing during a contactless transaction. At least other players during a purchase earn the percentage they make. Apple gets money for allowing us to access our own bank cards.
Okay, no, that's a common misconception
Yes, a token account number is assigned when you register a card. No, it does not change.
What changes with each transaction are other cyphers intended to validate that particular purchase... exactly the same as when a chip card is used.
Remember: Apple / Samsung-NFC / Android Pay are just standard emulations of a contactless card.
Exactly that. Additionally there is so many cool things one could do with that NFC chip. Starting from bus passes to movie tickets to my work cafeteria card. Technically it is 100% possible but with Apple shutting off their system because they want to have money from the banks for nothing this won't happen. It is a huge minus for the iPhone actually. Just the other day I saw that I could have gotten my driving record (points) online if I had had a Samsung to verify my EU ID. But since I only had an iPhone and Apple doesn't allow that functionality I had to send them a letter and wait for weeks. No way Apple is going to make contracts with all those tiny businesses, I can't imagine them making a deal with my work cafeteria ever...
True, just paid with a Tuohi/Apple Pay in a local S-market, flawless. Authenticated the card using my Danske bank codes, within the Nordea Pay app in iOS, then saved to Apple Wallet. No need to move your accounts/loans to Nordea. Tuohi is a credit-only card, you can apply for one in a lot of stores, it’s usually used for credit on larger purchases to begin with. No annual fees either.
80% of terminals in Finland have NFC, so this is really nice.
Yeah the laws for alcohol in the States are pretty lame considering you can go to war at 18 but can't drink legally until 21. Sorry your exposure to the States is via MA and hasn't been great. It is one of the least free states in the US.
I do think there is a lot of beautiful nature there and Americans are overall very friendly (you are a good example!
). Not a place for young people to have too much fun but I can def imagine coming back one day for a nature holiday!While I agree with you about BankID, there is a downside to ApplePay as well. If I send you money with ApplePay Cash, the money does NOT go to your bank account. They go to your iTunes account, and from there you have to transfer the money to your bank account, which will take from a couple of hours to several days. The latter if you try to do the transfer a Friday afternoon, and the money won't show up in your bank account until Monday noon.
Thanks, then I understand a bit better.
Indeed, tap&pay is limited to lower sums, but covers the majority of the everyday uses for me. Chip&pin in other cases present no major problem for me.
As for security, the tap&pay does pose a risk if I lose the card. I assume I will have to cover some of the losses in such a case, where a lost phone is safer.
The "carry a wallet problem" is more difficult to understand, but I guess it could be slightly inconvenient and if phone is more important then OK I see it. But like someone else said, driver license, office id card and such still has to be kept somewhere, so the walletless society is pretty far away as I see it. Actually, my phone isn't important enough as it is, so if I am only allowed to carry one item, it would be wallet, not phone.
There are 2 major usage of credit card where I can't really see a phone as an replacement. One is with non-local payment (over the phone or internet) and the other one is when battery or network connectivity is gone. I know very little about apple pay, so maybe this is covered in some way. But I already have charge-anxiety. No physical credit card needs a power outlet twice a day. And even in a case where the merchant is out of power, a slip purchase is possible.
If many people tell the bank that they'll move to another bank, that might be enough for the bank to consider implementing support for AppleID. I'm telling my bank too, although I don't really have the intention go moving to another bank either, and especially not to Nordea.
I can guarantee that Apple pays hundreds of millions, if not billions, in taxes here in Europe. What has been in the news are that they didn't pay enough corporate taxes under a period. They do pay those taxes now, according to current laws, but the laws were different a couple of years ago, and Apple paid a low tax in accordance with the, then current, laws. Besides there are many other taxes than the corporate tax, like VAT and also income taxes for all the employees.
I'm coming back to this, because I'm really curious to know just what on earth you think bad could happen with an NFC app from the Apple App Store.
Most NFC apps are geared around doing things like opening doors, making it easier to sign into WiFi, or reading tags in order to do custom actions.
Even a banking app could in theory simply use the standard payment applets in the Secure Element. After all, such apps (including Apple Pay) are merely wallet apps that communicate with those secured applets.
You see, NFC payment transactions do not go through an app. They're shunted by the NFC controller directly to the Secure Element. That's because they're registered so that their app ID is recognized. Just like a web certificate, banks have a chain of authentication that could allow them to register new applets. You, the user, can enable or disable them just like we do now with any bank card.
Likewise, in a decent open implementation, you can register other NFC apps that will be automatically started when their app IDs are presented. For example, a bus pass app.
Other phones have had open NFC for years. Without problems, especially any that iOS would allow. E.g. installing apps from third party sources, which Apple doesn't allow to begin with.
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Obviously it makes sense for a company to use every loophole they can find. I am also not saying what they did with Ireland was illegal - that is up to the courts to decide (even though when looking at previous decisions it seems rather obvious that they will have to pay). In not so recent 2014 they however only payed 50€ corporate tax on every million. By no means they employ as many people in the EU to make up for that in taxes. I do think there is a bigger problem to it though: competitiveness. While the EU doesn't have a competitor in the smartphone business we do have competition in many other of Apples business fields. Why for example should a non-EU company pay less to sell a music service compared to a company that employs Swedish people? On every level the decision is understandable from Ireland (at least kinda) and Apple. The question is though if that really benefits the people, and I say no it doesn't. Apples excuses always has been that they are a US company and thats why it would be unfair to pay corporate taxes in other countries where they only sell. Weirdly at home they hardly pay any tax either because they are an international company. While I don't blame Apple for this, I am very shocked to see people defend this behaviour with the weirdest comments. I understand if you like their products but that doesn't justify countries letting themselves being drained like that. And that is why it is good the EU is doing something against this.
EDIT: and btw: Apple is not paying the VAT but the customers do. Apple is only collecting it for the govt. That is why Apple prices differ slightly from country to country within the EU.
Solid point. If that’s really the case and you can’t change that behaviour, Apple Pay Cash is kinda stupid. Should go straight to your credit card.