Does anyone know who BankWest is? I’ve tried looking for them but all I get is one from Australia
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Apple Pay Now Accepted by 1000 U.S. Issuers
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That's exactly why, IMO. In the end I think we'll only be able to use Apple Pay in NFC mode at about 50% or so of stores. EMV's becoming fast enough as well (and the complaints from customers are falling off) such that going through the certification/development process to enable NFC is going to be a hard sell even for stores that don't collect customer data.
In-app use is going to be the most common use of Apple Pay by far because it'll actually have more concrete benefits for consumers and merchants (not having to wait in lines and still being able to collect customer data, respectively).
Ha, that doesn't work either. Whenever I say "credit" a lot of places wait for me to pull out a card even if the reader's on my side of the counter. I've taken to just trying to tap with my phone/watch without saying anything and hoping they get the message.
Sometimes they're waiting for me to pull out my card but by then, they've already entered the payment type and so I just tap my phone. They're usually surprised but the receipt comes out and the trasaction is completed so it's done. I've gotten everything from "wait what?" to "wow! That's so cool!" to "hmm, did you just pay with your phone?".
The worst reaction was at Toys R Us on Christmas. I paid with ApplePay and at first the young cashier was impressed but then she panicked and wouldn't let me leave with my bags until her manager verified that it was paid. I guess she was worried with being stuck with a $300 cash shortfall in her til.
I was in one of their branches last week and asked them about this. Acted like they didn't care. Been with them 20 years. Maybe time to move on.
As far as merchants, great success with Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Chevron. These are major players. And they seem to know what's going on. Haven't seen a need for training there.
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It's because the point of sale terminal is not buffering the card information. There's actually a handshake going on between the chip in your card and the transaction processor during the authorization. So, the chip has to be inserted into the contacts for the entire duration.
With magstripes, you could swipe the card at any time and it would hold the information until the transaction was complete, then request the authorization. That's actually how the Target breach occurred: the unencrypted information was held in memory, and a small bit of malware running on the terminal was able to capture it.
With Apple Pay, the information appears to be buffered, but thanks to the tokenization, it's useless for any other transaction.
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ha ha ha I work there and I never heard anything about support Apple pay
No, the Secure Element in the iPhone simply stores the token.
When you add a card to the Wallet, it initiates a request for a token (or DAN). I saw a diagram about a year ago that explained it very well, but I can't find it now. You might be able to derive it from the EMV Tokenization specification, but it's pretty opaque:
https://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx?id=263
The short version of what I remember: When you add a card to the Wallet, the iPhone requests a token from the token provider. The token provider is operated by the card brand (MasterCard, VISA, etc). Next, the token + account number is sent to the issuing bank, who validates the account is valid. If everything is approved, the token is sent to the iPhone to be saved in the Secure Element.
Apple is briefly involved in the token request, but only to add the information on your Apple account (address, phone, etc.) for validation by the bank.
In the US, the issuing bank (Wells Fargo, Bank of America, etc.) charges around 1.25% of the transaction, which is collected from the merchant by the transaction processor. Apple's 0.15% is paid by the issuing bank.
If someone finds I got the details wrong, let me know -- but please add a reference to your source, so I can bookmark it for the next time someone asks.
Yep.
Also, each device gets its own Token for the same card, which is why you need to use the same device if you go back for a refund transaction.
For me they don't seem to turn the terminal on until after I show a card or try to tap with a phone. There are also a lot of smaller places here that supposedly accept it but hide the terminal so that it's impossible to do so, which is why I don't use it nearly as often as I'd like.
I'd say: "Oh, you don't want to take my money? Good bye, have a nice day" and walk out.For me they don't seem to turn the terminal on until after I show a card or try to tap with a phone. There are also a lot of smaller places here that supposedly accept it but hide the terminal so that it's impossible to do so, which is why I don't use it nearly as often as I'd like.
Why can't America have a law like Canada where nobody else is allowed to touch our card?
Derp. Merchants would be forced to buy consumer facing terminals.
No more, "handing your card off to make a payment." I think there was a problem at Starbucks a month or two ago that involved a young woman who took a lady's card to the back and copied all of the information down, and then somehow miraculously used it at a local grocery store to buy hundreds of dollars worth of groceries.
I think forcing merchants to use consumer facing terminals ONLY, would reduce fraud by 33% by itself.
Derp. Merchants would be forced to buy consumer facing terminals.
No more, "handing your card off to make a payment." I think there was a problem at Starbucks a month or two ago that involved a young woman who took a lady's card to the back and copied all of the information down, and then somehow miraculously used it at a local grocery store to buy hundreds of dollars worth of groceries.
I think forcing merchants to use consumer facing terminals ONLY, would reduce fraud by 33% by itself.
I don't know if it's a law elsewhere (in Europe, South America, etc.), but chip-and-PIN essentially forces it. You can't enter a "secret PIN" if you don't have the terminal in hand.
The magnetic strip is easily cloned, so it only takes a few seconds to swipe a card and copy it. Chips are much more difficult (but reportedly not impossible) to clone. But, you can still use the information embossed on the card for mail-order fraud -- it's happened to me, twice. Keeping the card in the hands of the consumer would all but eliminate that vector.
However, it would require a large change in operations for restaurants in the US: their point-of-sale terminals are integrated systems used by the server, rather than the consumer. I believe that's why the US issuers are migrating to chip-and-signature.
They've claimed that it will "ease the transition" for consumers. But, US consumers are familiar with PINs, if they have ever used a debit card or ATM card. I think the real truth is it eases the transition for MERCHANTS.
There are lots of people who always run their debit cards as "credit" at the store and talk to a bank teller to withdraw money (instead of using an ATM). You may be surprised how little PIN is actually used right now. Chip and signature may very well be for the benefit of those consumers--and keeps banks from spending more than they have to, which is the primary reason for it.
Speaking of that, it appears Walmart and Kroger got rid of the credit option for chipped debit cards altogether. From what I hear, a significant number of Walmart's customers are not too happy with that move. IMO, such an action is only doable if everyone does it.
It is so "new". My credit card uses a magnetic strip, from the 1950's.
(Sure, some of my cards have the chip+pin, but it's way faster to swipe)
Still no reall Apple Pay in Australia. Only Amex but only a limited range of Amex cards.
Apple updated its Apple Pay participating issuers list today with 32 additional banks, credit unions and financial institutions supporting the contactless payment service in the U.S. Apple Pay now has 1000 participating issuers nationwide, including 998 U.S. banks and credit unions and store card support at BJ's Wholesale Club and Kohl's.
The newly added Apple Pay participating issuers are reflected below, although it's worth noting that some banks, credit unions and financial institutions listed may have already had support for the contactless payments service and are only now being reflected on Apple's website.
The full list of new Apple Pay participating issuers:
Anderson Brothers Bank
Bank & Trust Company
Bank of Labor
Bank of Yazoo
BankWest
Brown County State Bank
Busey Bank
Campbell & Fetter Bank
Central Bank of Oklahoma
Collinsville Savings Society
Core Bank
Covantage Credit Union
Diversified Members Credit Union
Farmington Bank
Florida Parishes Bank
Fort Worth Community Credit Union
Great Midwest Bank
Horizon Bank, N.A.
Litchfield Bancorp
Luther Burbank Savings
Mississippi National Guard Federal Credit Union
Oregon Community Credit Union
Pathfinder Bank
Platinum Federal Credit Union
Qualstar Credit Union
Red River Bank
Seven Seventeen Credit Union
T Bank
The Citizens Bank
Titonka Savings Bank
US Employees O.C. Federal Credit Union
Wallis State BankApple Pay is now available at more than 2 million retail locations, with support coming to Crate & Barrel, Chick-fil-A, and Au Bon Pain locations in the U.S. soon. Cinnabon, Chili's, Domino's, KFC and Starbucks will also support Apple Pay in the U.S. starting this year.
In November, Apple Pay launched in Australia and Canada in November in partnership with American Express. Apple Pay is also coming for American Express cardholders in Hong Kong, Singapore and Spain this year, and the service appears to have soft launched in China last month in partnership with UnionPay.
Apple Pay gained support for BJ's Wholesale Club private label credit cards and 66 new U.S. issuers on December 15, plus nearly another 60 issuers on January 5.
Article Link: Apple Pay Now Accepted by 1000 U.S. Issuers
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Same in Australia.
Regarding the comments about the banks issuing the cards - this could entirely be virtualized. You could logon to your banking website on your mac and via a secure, encrypted connection to your iPhone over wifi transfer the secure token for the virtual card. Potentially they could do it with their own apps / browser extensions - would be better if Apple created it so the interfaces were standard.
(heh, or just provide it with their own iOS banking app - even simpler!)
Anywhere that has contactless payments will work for Apple Pay - the only "gotcha" is the issuing network and token provider needs to be supported (not all terminals supported Interac for contactless payments - but, many of the debit cards are now also leveraging credit card companies networks, so that problem should go away).
Slow contactless payment terminals in the US are most likely a result of poor infrastructure at the retailer (some of them still use dial-up)
(heh, or just provide it with their own iOS banking app - even simpler!)
Anywhere that has contactless payments will work for Apple Pay - the only "gotcha" is the issuing network and token provider needs to be supported (not all terminals supported Interac for contactless payments - but, many of the debit cards are now also leveraging credit card companies networks, so that problem should go away).
Slow contactless payment terminals in the US are most likely a result of poor infrastructure at the retailer (some of them still use dial-up)
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