Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Pay Roundup: Everything We Know, Coming in October
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
LOL I didn't know it was that extreme !!
I only use my debit card because I know that I have the € in my checking account and as for my credit card I always pays the amount at the end of each month. But I agree that for less disciplinary and savvy people, credit card can be a nightmare !
I will visit Germany to see that in person
I went to Lausanne and Geneva 2 weeks ago and had no problem using my French debit card to purchase food, clothes etc. Maybe your friend went to the German-speaking of Switzerland
Last edited:
Anyone know if Citizens Bank is going to participate in Apple Pay?
http://www.citizensbank.com
Is this the best place to track participating banks?
https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/
http://www.citizensbank.com
Is this the best place to track participating banks?
https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/
Man, that is a lot speculation with none of the fact to back it up. Visa's Chief risk officer was on Bloomberg West a couple days after Apple announced Apple pay. The money that Apple receive will come from the credit card processing companies (BAC, JPM etc. who issue the cards). And they earned it because the transaction is deems to be more secure than any other alternative. The economic for Visa does not change.
And how do you know that Apple is not trying to launch Apple pay in Europe or Japan? The truth is that Apple need to launch Apple pay in countries that Iphone has very high penetration rate to make a difference. The merchants and card processing companies has to sign up for the payment method. And if Apple does not have a dominating Iphone position, why would they bother? Look for Japan to be the second country if Apple pay is successful in US. Iphone in Japan has a higher market share than Iphone in US.. Outside of US, Japan, Germany, UK, may be France, there won't be many other places for Apple pay anywhere else. Each countries has their own credit card law and it will affect whether Apple pay make sense or not.
Yep, as I mentioned a couple of weeks ago in this post, Visa is working to get Apple Pay in Europe.
The card processors have to support the latest MC/Visa tokenized messages that Apple is using. And the banks probably have to agree to pay Apple.
Merchants shouldn't have to sign up for Apple Pay. It's just a standard EMV transaction to their terminals.
Ummmmm...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-pay-to-invade-china-with-help-from-unionpay-2014-09-11
Not only markets that apple has a strong standing in but also those where apple has a well defined growth strategy. Apple Pay and the partnerships that enable it to be useful for a wide variety of things will eventually add value to apple's products (Current and Future iPhones and Apple Watch) and therefore be a service that would help these products add to their marketshare. With Apple Pay, it appears that apple is looking at the long term. Touch ID is only a year old, Touch ID with NFC on a phone is brand new @ apple..This will obviously change in the coming years when the number of such devices say in China will be in the tens of millions. And if the Apple Watch catches on in China you have the entire iPhone 5/5s/5c user base enabled for Apple pay..
The reason China (and Japan) makes a lot of sense is the density of the population @ the major cities which would be very conducive for retailers to upgrade and prepare for NFC payments (if they aren't already since I have only been to China a couple of times and did not notice NFC).
One thing I would like to see from Apple or third party developers is some sort of transaction record (like recording payment receipts) that enabled me to scroll through my purchases and how much time I have to return stuff etc.
Last edited:
For merchant, the most important aspect of Apple pay is the "card presented" rate that they received from the card processing company like JPM, WFC etc. My guess is that merchants will see a big improvement on their CC processing fee when the purchase is done online. Today, they are paying the "card not presented" fee which can be 125-150 bps higher than the "card presented" fee. There were an article about the Apple pay economic floating around a few days ago. According to the article, Apple will receive 15 cents for each $100 transaction. There is a lot of incentive for merchants to sign up for Apple pay for both in store and online purchase.
This is quite a stretch to think that Apple Pay can be extended to China in the near future. Apple has only a 6-7% market share smartphone market. And China is a hybrid country in term of subsidy. All major carriers in China offers subsidy but there are plenty of user prefer to buy their phone. The upgrade cycle in China is much slower than a subsidy country like US or Japan. That means in about 12 months, Iphone 6 and 6+ would be lucky to have 2-3% of smartphone market share in China. Aside from the problem of Chinese government not trusting foreign firm for payment system, why would anyone really want to adapt their payment to Apple pay?
And the most important aspect of the discussion is the fraud protection part of the deal. In US and western country, there is a very strong consumer protection provision in our laws and credit card companies and banks which issue the card are on the hook for the loss due to fruad. In China and a lot of developing countries, there is no such protection provision. Customers are on the hook if someone stole their credit card number and make illegal purchase. There is not much incentive for CC companies to do anything beyond the take the report and issue a new card when a customer report the stolen CC card.
A merchant has to agree to use a standard NFC terminal. Walmart doesn't want that. They don't want standard NFC terminals at all, Apple or not, they want to introduce their own system. Probably to have more access to your data, and to cut out the credit card companies. Now you as a customer have to decide, who do you trust more, Visa, MasterCard and AmEx, or Walmart? (And Visa, MasterCard and AmEx have decided to trust Apple).
----------
I think the actual security problem that Apple Pay helps with is a crooked merchant or crooked employee of a merchant who copies your card details, which are then later used in online card fraud. Every time you use Apple Pay, there is no chance to copy your card details, so online card fraud should go down.
----------
Honest ones don't. But fraudsters do. You hand over your card in a restaurant, someone takes it and writes down the details before returning it to you.
You must've missed my earlier posts on this topic.
Merchants already get "Card Present" (CP) rates with NFC payments from other wallets. Reporters didn't bother to find this out:
However, it's "Card Not Present" (CNP) for in-app payments, even if Apple Pay is used:
What we don't know, is if Apple has any deal to get merchants CP instead of CNP for online payments. I also haven't seen any way yet to do this with Apple Pay, but maybe I missed it.
Of course, using any contactless payment method avoids letting the employees see your card. So does swiping my own card.
The protection of using tokens is more for the case where someone has installed a physical or software card skimmer at the POS terminal or has hacked into the merchant's main computers.
That situation won't change in the US until every restaurant has handheld payment terminals.
Walmart and Best Buy's consortium have already lost....they know it, they just don't know the best way to backtrack yet.
Once ApplePay is released, I will make a concerted effort to shop in locations that support it.
Thanks to HomeDepot I am yet again being shipped a new card from my bank. I'm sick of this crap, and I'm going to stop shopping at places that don't take my security as seriously as Apple clearly does.
----------
Doesn't matter because it doesn't take into consideration --->
....which seems to happen all the time now. In the last 12 months I have my debit card compromised and replaced twice by two major retailers have their payment data hacked. This is a growing trend, and only a service like ApplePay has the potential to render it a non-issue.
No, its called Open Table. All the restaurant has to do is sign up to participate, and you can pay for your own check using ApplePay right within the OpenTable App. No need for "payment terminals" at any eating establishment. They just need to join Open Table.
Merchants like Home Depot could've also registered with the same token providers that the CC companies use, had them store the real numbers, and only store the tokens themselves. But they didn't.
In any case, that's why MC/Visa have taken it into their own hands, and created their tokenization programs which Apple is among the first to use. (I believe a bank in Canada was the first.)
Not a widespread solution, nor a desirable one for many restaurants.
It will also prevent your account from being compromised in cases like Target and Home Depot, and other high-profile breaches where the merchants internal point-of-sale network was compromised.
That's the appeal for me. I'm getting tired of wondering if I bought something at a merchant during the time someone was snarfing up everything they need to use my credit card elsewhere.
Thanks for the link. I read it. And its crap.
Things like Open Table are new opportunities for any all restaurants to compete in the modern age.
Yep.
One trouble is, they plan to keep the magnetic stripe around for years, so we can still pay merchants who didn't switch over. Like little shops which rarely see fraud anyway. (Think knitting supplies.)
What they really need to get in place, is a better way to authenticate online buyers. That's where all the fraud is these days, especially in countries already using chips.
Now, some things are relatively safe. For example, a lot of us have cards on file at Amazon, PayPal, etc. If we ever try to send something to a new location, we get challenged to reenter the card info.
So I'm guessing that it's the first-time purchases and accounts that are the main source of online fraud.
--
As far as switching everyone in the US over to chip cards, my feeling is that the card companies see NFC payments as a way to save some money giving out new cards.
If we stop using a real card and only use it via a smartphone wallet, then they could safely put us at the end of the list for getting an updated card that will never get used or perhaps even carried.
I find it sort of funny that for years all you heard was the myth that a cell phone would start a gas fire. Soon everyone will be waving radio signals directly at pumps.
There is a company that plans to work with Apple to bring it. As mentioned in the article they have worked with other pay services from other vendors and unsuccessfully brought them to the market as well. Why would Apple pay be any different form the regulator stand point, especially since none of the credit or debit card information is stored on any servers? There is some activity between apple and the company concerned in bringing this to the market. A reputable publication has brought this out, so to suggest that all that is just rubbish is kind of ridiculous. In my opinion marketshare does not have much to do with this. If apple sells 15 Milion iPhone 6's in china over the next 1 year, that is quite a bit of devices especially in the high population density areas. Moreover there is also the potential of the apple watch being a success in China that would make apple pay compatible with existing 5/5s/5c devices. A big potential market which would definitely be exploited by those looking to make some money by offering these services.
Likely VISA.
----------
I`ve made quick scheme how we could make shopping in future
Pick your stuff in store, scan it, authorize payment and leave the store
Image
Apple Stores already support this. Have used for camera connection kit and cases.
How
Take the wayback machine to 2011
http://techland.time.com/2011/11/11/apple-store-self-check-out-shopping-perfected/